Best herald energy projection feat

I just remember a couple of Superman's.

Creating enough static electricity to patch a hole in reality

Creating enough static electricity to contain a mini black hole.

Originally posted by Ambient
Convoluted maybe but the art at the end of that arc pretty much explain in itself and its far more clearer than you equating energy percentage to the Supes feat, as there is an actual depiction via on panel art evidence of Surfer acquiring a change reaction/transfer to his persona after the silvery comet (Surfer - from the Unilord Universe) connected + top this off with a similar display of his powerset acquired during his upgrade in that arc presented in his latest issue. Really the scan i presented is easy enough to understand that it required no narration of the event..

No it isn't. What you assume is that unilord surfer passed rift, searched surfer and merged with him which have no other proofs than your assumptions. What we know is that unilord surfer tried to pass the rift, got melted and then returned to unilord's dimensions where he was seen at the last page of Silver surfer 120. Now the "silver comet" you are basing your whole theory upon might be another divergant reality version of unilord surfer who actually succeeded into crossing the rift and now who got merged with 616 surfer but that is a speculation too and that's why that is so ambiguous. While here we have four people firing their accumulative energies into a vessel who then gets overloaded by another character and created a big bang. What's so ambiguous about it?

It matters since you are not fully aware of what transpired in that story line and yet you lead us to believe that you have read and are quite knowledgeable of this arc.. 🙁

I've read it and knows quite a bit about it, so no thanks for the reminder. Why don't you concentrate upon your reading comprehension than my comic book knowledge.

So what the heck is the 4 remaining pages at the end of issue 121 and the 1'st 5 pages of 122 is all about? I mean there is a freakin reason why that was even printed out, not to mention that they choose it to happened in 616 universe and not in the Unilord Universe, marvel wanted it to clearly be connected and thefore cannonised..

Who knows? Unless they clarify it and surfer actually shows power level anywhere remotely close to unilord level, its not an upgrade. Rest is just your wishful thinking.

Maybe u should read it because its quite clear that u haven't or just browse over it and pick what u wanted to see.. 🙄

Like I said you should concentrate your mind on your own business.

But this just it, this individual super beings is off not similar power level specially since some of them have the ability to amp from an outside and diff. energy source adding it to they're own, which was specifically shown it happening.. [B]This is where your logic fails, your expectation of them being of similar powerlevels.

You think this is the only time some odd people of power levels have done something like this? You don't have any knowledge of how things work in the comics then

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/136/ale6nz4.jpg/

Highfather, Darkseid, Doctor Fate, Oriona and etrigan collapsed anti-life entity's realm. That doesn't mean that some characters like etrigan contributed less than others. It doesn't work like that, if superman's energies were not necessary then he wouldn't have been in that picture altogether.

[quote]The character involved being debated have diff. strengths and while i do agree that Superman are shown to be above this character in overall stats however not in all categories; like say energy projection and absorbtion. Lets take Capt. Atom for example his been shown to absorb energy - ex. Nekron in Limbo - draining him dry instanteneously. Since this is what we are debating off in this feat; absorption and projection its clear that this beings are not evenly equal..

This shows that you don't know anything about the characters you are debating here. Captain atom shunts energy in quantum field when he absorbs a lot of energy which he can't use without entering in the quantum field, not amp himself. If he doesn't and absorbs it in himself then he gets overloaded and gets thrown in the time stream and it doesn't requires a lot of energy. Atom by amping can reach up to superman level energy projection otherwise heat vision has beat him before.

Point being assigning percentage of energy output from that feat is near impossible without proper gaining more detail information, compared to what was shown at the end of Surfer 121, which was quite simple straight forward as shown on panel.

Unilord Surfer coming out of the rift in the form of silvery comet and then was drawn toward 616 surfer they connect and Surfer came then exhibited powers similar to that of Unilord albeit not to the higher degree in the latter issue.. [/B]

No he didn't show any power similar to unilord surfer who was destroying star systems. Even in the mardukk saga he failed to stop mardukk from destroying earth. First you have to prove that the silver comet is unilord surfer who after that scan you presented returned to unilord universe. Ready, Set, Go.

Originally posted by Ambient
I was right. You dont read but just browse and see what you like then forms an unbased opinion.

Coming from you its just hilarious. Where did you read about zero hour, wiki?

If you read the scan you provided its clear that Damage did not reach critical mass yet.. As evidence by Waverider's statement, " Prepare yourself Damage when you reach the proper level." Meaning he has not reach that level yet.

You claerly can't read when you are meshing two sentences together. Waverider said in the third panel to damage to prepare himself because his physical form can't be held together for long and when he said that when damage reaches the proper level and damge replied that he understood what rider wanted and parallax seemed convinced that damage reached the proper level too. That's why "my way is right damage" and tried to kill him. You need to work on that reading skills of yours if you can't separate two sentences.

http://images.wikia.com/marvel_dc/images/9/92/Big_Bang_Zero_Hour_01.jpg

😂

Wiki? You serious with this shit?

He only reach critical mass in the scan i provided above, when Spectre projected his own energy towards damage.

damage said,"Huh! the big guys pumping more energy into me, cant hold it in, cutting loose."

You again show your "impressive" reading skills. It wasn't damage reaching that level, it was him getting overloaded. Earlier he promised to waverider that he would release the energy in a controlled manner but spectre overloaded him and he blew up in a "out of control" manner. If only you can understand what you're typing then you would've understood that it wasn't the dialogue of a character getting to a certain power level, it was of getting overloaded otherwise it would've been like"Guys, I'm reaching the level waverider said to prepare me for and now I'm releasing it like a controlled detonation like I promised him". And you tried to paint me as slow!

Is spectre = superman in power level?

Your logic yet fails again..

You don't have the one to begin with. Your entire debate centers around how to lowball superman's contribution in this feat.

Guys, keep it civil.

Superman heating up the entire Earth has to be up there imo.

Originally posted by abhilegend
No it isn't. What you assume is that unilord surfer passed rift, searched surfer and merged with him which have no other proofs than your assumptions. What we know is that unilord surfer tried to pass the rift, got melted and then returned to unilord's dimensions where he was seen at the last page of Silver surfer 120. Now the "silver comet" you are basing your whole theory upon might be another divergant reality version of unilord surfer who actually succeeded into crossing the rift and now who got merged with 616 surfer but that is a speculation too and that's why that is so ambiguous.

I'm not the one who's assuming, its you.. Your basing your assumption on a single panel of an arc that at that point wasn't finish telling its whole story.

(Now this is where my commonsense beg's to stop debating) Even going by your assumption/speculation, 616 Surfer would still retain the Blackbody upgrade from the merge since its still The U - Surfer that was derived from the Unilord Universe and that had gone through the blackbody upgrade. 🙄

Take that feat as it is, its quite simple to a point where the art basically tells the whole story.

While here we have four people firing their accumulative energies into a vessel who then gets overloaded by another character and created a big bang. What's so ambiguous about it?

Who knows? Unless they clarify it and surfer actually shows power level anywhere remotely close to unilord level, its not an upgrade. Rest is just your wishful thinking.

his shows that you don't know anything about the characters you are debating here. Captain atom shunts energy in quantum field when he absorbs a lot of energy which he can't use without entering in the quantum field, not amp himself. If he doesn't and absorbs it in himself then he gets overloaded and gets thrown in the time stream and it doesn't requires a lot of energy. Atom by amping can reach up to superman level energy projection otherwise heat vision has beat him before.

Only in the eye of a diehard surfer fan like you. Even the most knowledgeable surfer fans like darthgoober have said that its impossible to determine whether unilord saga is canon for 616 surfer or not and even if we assume that unilord surfer merged with 616 surfer, it doesn't automatically mekes his feats canon for 616 surfer like heroes reborn isn't canon for 616 hulk while heroes reborn hulk merged with 616 hulk.

No he didn't show any power similar to unilord surfer who was destroying star systems. Even in the mardukk saga he failed to stop mardukk from destroying earth. First you have to prove that the silver comet is unilord surfer who after that scan you presented returned to unilord universe. Ready, Set, Go

Coming from you its just hilarious. Where did you read about zero hour, wiki?

You claerly can't read when you are meshing two sentences together. 1.)Waverider said in the third panel to damage to prepare himself because his physical form can't be held together for long and when he said that 2.)when damage reaches the proper level and 3.)damge replied that he understood what rider wanted.

http://s1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/Superman/?action=view&current=ZHpt005_pg019.jpg

1.) What does Waverider physical condition have to do regarding Damage achieving critical mass?

2.) When reaching proper level, prepare yourself. "When" Suggest it hasnt reach that level yet. How difficult is that to grasp?

3.) He understood the plan but nowhere does it state anywhere in the scan that Damage physical form is at critical mass..

http://images.wikia.com/marvel_dc/images/9/92/Big_Bang_Zero_Hour_01.jpg

Its in the evidence i provided above via scan is when its narrated and depicted in the art (Spectre's pouring more energy to damage) that damage reach critical mass then went bigbang.

Again twice you base your speculation on one single page neglecting the whole event as in the page that followed it. 🙁

parallax seemed convinced that damage reached the proper level too. That's why "my way is right damage" and tried to kill him. You need to work on that reading skills of yours if you can't separate two sentences.

Why are we even arguing about this when there's evidence on my side and what u have to show on yours is poor reading comprehension..

You again show your "impressive" reading skills. It wasn't damage reaching that level, it was him getting overloaded. Earlier he promised to waverider that he would release the energy in a controlled manner but spectre overloaded him and he blew up in a "out of control" manner. If only you can understand what you're typing then you would've understood that it wasn't the dialogue of a character getting to a certain power level, it was of getting overloaded otherwise it would've been like"Guys, I'm reaching the level waverider said to prepare me for and now I'm releasing it like a controlled detonation like I promised him". And you tried to paint me as slow!

Now your basically just making things up..

We do know one thing for sure is that Spectre had contribution from remaking that bigbang which pretty much through off your even power level assumption therefore your point pretty much is a big FAIL.

Nope, but spectre wasn't in the play untill in the end

He doesn't need to, him being convinced that damage was close to it is proof enough. "Sorry damage, MY way is right" tells that he thought damage was powerful enough to start big bang and tried to kill him.
http://www.wizardru.net/graphics/scans/zeroollie1.jpg

Why would hal try to kill damage when he wasn't anywhere near big bang level power? He would've just laughed and said they were trying something they could never achieve or something cliched like that knowing how hal speaks.

Because your right, its likely possible that given the chance he could build up to critical mass thats why he wasnt willing to take the chance but what matters is that there is no inclination in that scan that Damage reach critical mass..

You do know that quantum field was destroyed alongside everything when parallax erased the creation, right? They were standing in parallax's universe.

If we go by your theory than superman comes second in the contribution because neither darkstar nor The ray have energy projection anywhere near superman even if we take their amps from absorbing a tiny portion of parallax's universe (ray only absorbed light). Even then, it would be better than anything Thor or surfer have done, don't you agree?

Originally posted by Ambient
😂 The length you'd go through to disavow a feat is hilarious to a point where im dumbfounded by your counter argument, common sense dictate i stop for fear of loosing more brain cells but alas i cant.. 😂

I could say the same about you but meh. I stopped trusting surfer fans to show brain cells a long time ago.

I'm not the one who's assuming, its you.. Your basing your assumption on a single panel of an arc that at that point wasn't finish telling its whole story.

Pot, kettle. I'm basing my feat on a simple three pages where everything is drawn to understand for you and me. You are basing your assumptions upon assumptions.

(Now this is where my commonsense beg's to stop debating) Even going by your assumption/speculation, 616 Surfer would still retain the Blackbody upgrade from the merge since its still The U - Surfer that was derived from the Unilord Universe and that had gone through the blackbody upgrade. 🙄

Obviously not, since surfer had never since showed any reference to either unilord universe or any sign of an upgrade and the instance you are basing your theory upon (mardukk saga) happened nearly a decade after in a different series by a different writer.

Take that feat as it is, its quite simple to a point where the art basically tells the whole story.

Not convincing enough. Try again.

Now that i agree is not ambiguous, you should take that feat as what it is - an impressive feat -. But when you assign energy output percentage to each character involved, that's when speculation comes into play since there is not enough detailed information for a calculated result. As oppose to the Surfer - Unilord feat where all the evidence you need is depicted in the art..

I'm not assigning percentages, I'm just saying that they were given equal footing in that feat like all feats of similar nature and that's where your speculation comes into play about how they were not in equal footing which you haven't seen any proof thus far.

I didn't say he was, what i said was he exhibit similar power abilities shown during the Unilord arc on his latter comic issue. EX. Merging, Massive energy absorption compared to norm limit prior to the Unilord arc, Surviving being completely reduced into atoms, etc..

Different volume, different writer and with a character with such an open powerset like surfer unless its directly referenced like in annihilation its not feasible to say that it was an upgrade. If it was an upgrade then why did they chose to show it after nearly a decade? They had ample opportunities to show it in silver surfer v3 which ran to issue 147 where unilord saga ended in 120.

lol I don't what i was thinking when i drafted him twice in a tourney. Lets just say his absorb massive amount of energy without time sleeping meaning absorb it unto himself. lets just leave it at that.

Yeah, you don't know much about him. Its been a defining characteristic trait to cap ever since he came into DC comics.

Well that's Darthgoober's opinion not mine and speaking of heroes reborn that's totally diff.

You are hardly the authority on this matter and how's it different?

I didn't say power level i said power/abilities - not level and i even give example to it..

Concession accepted.

😂 no i followed that crossover as i have a box and collected some DC titles..

Ok.

Dude! Reading comprehension please! AGGGHHHH!

That's what I'm asking you for.

http://s1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/Superman/?action=view&current=ZHpt005_pg019.jpg

1.) What does Waverider physical condition have to do regarding Damage achieving critical mass?

He indicated that when his physical form would be dispersed he had to be ready to fire that blast. Read it again.

2.) [B]When reaching proper level, prepare yourself. "When" Suggest it hasnt reach that level yet. How difficult is that to grasp?

Damage knows it better than you and me. He said that now I understand that you need a controlled detonation and he was ready to do that when parallax tried to kill him. How hard is it to understand for you?

3.) He understood the plan but nowhere does it state anywhere in the scan that Damage physical form is at critical mass..

Speculation again. Hal didn't wanted to kill anybody there. He was just trying to create a different universe for everyone. Why would he want to kill damage if he wasn't ready to detonate and create the big bang after he himself said so?

[http://images.wikia.com/marvel_dc/images/9/92/Big_Bang_Zero_Hour_01.jpg

Its in the evidence i provided above via scan is when its narrated and depicted in the art (Spectre's pouring more energy to damage) that damage reach critical mass then went bigbang.

facepalm

If only you could read! The dialogue makes it completely clear that spectre was overloading him. "Can't hold it in and cutting loose" denote getting overloaded not getting to the limit. Seriously?

Again twice you base your speculation on one single page neglecting the whole event as in the page that followed it. 🙁

You can't even read dialogue properly and now you are lecturing me on using speculations? You at least have to read to speculate.

Please point at me where parallax said to Damage that he reach critical mass,

What i gathered from that statement was that he knew what the heroes plan was and apologized to Damage that he is going to put an end to his life.

Like I said before it wasn't tell Spectre's involvement that he reach critical mass as is supported by the evidence i provided, which happened in the page after the one you showed..

Like I said if only you could read!

Why are we even arguing about this when there's evidence on my side and what u have to show on yours is poor reading comprehension..

Hahahahaha, this made my day. You are just reposting the scans I posted and twist them into your explanation. Nice try but you have to try harder.

Yes he def. got overloaded

but he reach critical mass prior to that but def. not from the scan you provided, all that really tell was that a warning from waverider to get ready when reach the proper level and Damage understanding what to do when at that level..

No backtracking now. You only get overloaded when you have already reached the critical point.

Now your basically just making things up..

That's your job.

We do know one thing for sure is that Spectre had contribution from remaking that bigbang which pretty much through off your even power level assumption therefore your point pretty much is a big FAIL.

We do know that spectre only came into the equation once damage has already reached the critical mass and overloaded him like you just admitted yourself. Now its just your attempts to lowball this feat which is FAIL INCARNATE.

You still have to account him in your equation since he was the big reason that cause Damage to go bigbang.

Nope, I already accounted him for the overloading of damage.

Again your making things up. your putting diff. meaning to the statement. Its plain and simple he knew about the plan and is willing to kill damage for it..

Like I said, now its just you being stubborn and trying to refuse logic. Just accept that you lost and move on, it doesn't hurt physically.

Because your right, its likely possible that given the chance he could build up to critical mass thats why he wasnt willing to take the chance but what matters is that there is no inclination in that scan that Damage reach critical mass..

Oxymoron, either I'm right or not and like You said I was right. Damage reached critical mass like all signs indicates him to reach at that level.

Capt. Atom is quantum field, he can call for it to exist..

This is the dumbest thing I've ever heard outside of quan or h1's mindless babblings. Nice going there kid.

Dude your speculating, that's all the evnidence your contributing.. You have no proof, heck my counter argument is plain speculation. Without farther detail information you cant prove your point.. [/B]

You accept that all of your counter argument was just speculation. Discussion ends here. Superman contributed about evenly from a group of four people to create a big bang, glad that's settled here. Nice talking to ya. see ya.

Originally posted by -Pr-
Guys, keep it civil.

Originally posted by -Pr-
Guys, keep it civil.

Originally posted by -Pr-
Guys, keep it civil.

Originally posted by -Pr-
Guys, keep it civil.

I won't ask again.

Originally posted by -Pr-
I won't ask again.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Pot, kettle. I'm basing my feat on a simple three pages where everything is drawn to understand for you and me. You are basing your assumptions upon assumptions.

Obviously not, since surfer had never since showed any reference to either unilord universe or any sign of an upgrade and the instance you are basing your theory upon (mardukk saga) happened nearly a decade after in a different series by a different writer.

Different volume, different writer and with a character with such an open powerset like surfer unless its directly referenced like in annihilation its not feasible to say that it was an upgrade. If it was an upgrade then why did they chose to show it after nearly a decade? They had ample opportunities to show it in silver surfer v3 which ran to issue 147 where unilord saga ended in 120.

I'm not assigning percentages, I'm just saying that they were given equal footing in that feat like all feats of similar nature and that's where your speculation comes into play about how they were not in equal footing which you haven't seen any proof thus far

lol where does it state on panel that all characters are in equal footing. Its your assumption that they are. Im not speculating in regard to the character individual power level is diff. because they are diff. thats a given information. So im not the one burden to show proof but you, so the question is where is your proof that each character projected equal power.

He indicated that when his physical form would be dispersed he had to be ready to fire that blast. Read it again.

Damage knows it better than you and me. He said that now I understand that you need a controlled detonation and he was ready to do that when parallax tried to kill him. How hard is it to understand for you?

You are hardly the authority on this matter and how's it different?

Speculation again. Hal didn't wanted to kill anybody there. He was just trying to create a different universe for everyone. Why would he want to kill damage if he wasn't ready to detonate and create the big bang after he himself said so?

Speculation again, he just beat THE SPECTRE. If damage wasn't near big bang, he wouldn't have tried to kill him. Plain and simple.

We do know that spectre only came into the equation once damage has already reached the critical mass and overloaded him like you just admitted yourself. Now its just your attempts to lowball this feat which is FAIL INCARNATE.

But think about the feat by itself it exploded with the contribution of Spectre's energy which ive said in my previous post, that it debunks your even power contribution... We have no way of knowing how much energy he added, unless again we speculate..

Nope, I already accounted him for the overloading of damage.

Just to remind you that Damage overloaded and went Bigbang with Spectre's contribution of energy that pretty much is clear.. He didn't go bigbang at critical mass.. Your equation must account with what was presented in the scan not what if cause that would equal -- speculation..

Summarised it all..

The only way you'd come about with your conclusion regarding the blackbody upgrade is if we only take this one single panel where Surfer was questioning, "what will happen to his Universe" and then it was narrated as your, "question will remain unanswered for now".. Then disregard the few pages that came after..

http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa312/RRoldz/Surfer/SS_v3_121_14a.jpg
http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa312/RRoldz/Surfer/SS_v3_121_17a.jpg
http://s198.photobucket.com/albums/aa312/RRoldz/Surfer/?action=view&current=SS_v3_121_17b.jpg
http://s198.photobucket.com/albums/aa312/RRoldz/Surfer/?action=view&current=SS_v3_122_03a.jpg
http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa312/RRoldz/Surfer/SS_v3_122_03b.jpg
http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa312/RRoldz/Surfer/SS_v3_122_03b.jpg

Its quite clear at least to me how this arc concluded and that is the writer choose to have this story connected to 616 Surfer therefore making it canon. Now if you don't agree with it, its fine however you should ask similar stance of the Supes feat; detailed information, not assumption and speculation otherwise your double standard.

Originally posted by Ambient
Apologies there PR.. Well keep it civil.. 😉

Agreed.

No! your basing your speculation on a belief that all characters involve on the feat are contributing equal energy source base on there individual equal power level.

Your proof was because [B]"When a group of characters do something in a comic with roughly same power level, its assumed that they contributed evenly."

This is weak evidence, even you - yourself admitted in here of your assumption.. Another thing you need to add to whatever calculation your using is the latter involvement of Spectre to which im pretty sure this was an unexpected involvement of the rest of the characters in that feat.

How where they to know how much energy to give if they did not know of Spectres involvement?

That and the extra Parallax energies Capt. Atom, Ray and Darkstar absorbs blows your even power level argument.. Without knowing the specific of this characters detailed projected energy one can only speculate the percentage of each of their contribution. It just cant get more clearer than that.

There is a ref. to his upgrade during the Unilord arc and does it have to be stated in every showing of an increase of power... I mean it sure didn't show a ref. to every Supes power increase but you clearly accepted that..

No, there isn't. Outside of unilord saga till annihilation, there isn't a single reference to surfer's upgrade that I've read upon and I've read nearly every appearance of surfer. Superman has referenced his upgrades multiple times after they happened.

Yes but it got to have bases for a character like surfer to have a particular power set to appear.

He didn`t see a use of the power he acquired during the unilord arc tell he encountered Madrakk. Does Superman TVO or blits every challenge he encounters? Same thing.

Superman has used T-vo in a spectre comic FYI and blitzed people outside his own comic. Surfer didn't showed any increased abilities in the same volume and any showings outside that run for the case of his upgrade nearly ten years later is hilarious. You don't think that a claim that a character shows his upgrade nearly ten years later under a different writer hilarious? I mean c'mon.

You just gave supes 10% contribution - how is that not giving percentage.

I said "EVEN IF we assume that he just contributed 10% of the energy". Check the difference.

lol where does it state on panel that all characters are in equal footing.

Its your assumption that they are.

Im not speculating in regard to the character individual power level is diff. because they are diff. thats a given information.

So im not the one burden to show proof but you, so the question is where is your proof that each character projected equal power.

Yeah, the comic itself proves that by quoting waverider that they all have to fire their accumulative energies into him.

Right. so how is this tied in to knowing Damage reach critical mass. fact is that he couldn`t hold and funnel that much power the 4 characters were pouring in, thats basically all it tells..

Waverider knew his limits and still got up for funneling a blast like big bang. What does that tell you about his physical dispersion? He didn't disperse because he couldn't funnel that much energy, he did because he knew that he would disperse after funneling that much energy and that this was his limit.

Yes. Good so far he understood that they need a controlled detonation but where does it state that he was ready for detonation and please look at the scan you provided.

Waverider was telling him the ``when`` part, this is the last part in the art you'll see him being charge with energy and because of the `when` at the same panel, its clear that he has not yet reach critical mass in this page.. It is at the next page that this happened.

Just speculation going on here as you yourself admitted. Waverider told him to be ready and damage was ready as per his words "Now I know what you want", parallax then tried to kill him to stop him from detonating. You're just shaking your head and saying "Nah-uh, that is wrong" without any proof whatsoever.

You do know that everything i've wrote is based solely on my own opinion right. I am the authority on that..

Yeah, I know and that's why I'm asking you the proof.

Why? Because my assumption is that Damage is a threat to his plan but nowhere does it state anywhere in the scan or any denotion from the art that suggest he was at critical mass as i've stated in the above post with the evidence..

Yeah, you are assuming anything without taking characters in equation, that's why you are just speculating. Hal didn't wanted to kill anybody there. He even promised a different universe for damage.

"IF" = Speculation..

Not like yours, I take character traits into consideration.

You have no proof of this.. Like ive previously said so before we are both speculating..

Yeah, I do. Read damage's words when spectre overloaded him and you would find the proof.

But think about the feat by itself it exploded with the contribution of Spectre's energy which ive said in my previous post, that it debunks your even power contribution... We have no way of knowing how much energy he added, unless again we speculate..

Damage had already achieved critical mass as per the plan of waverider and parallax confirmed it by trying to kill him and then as damage explained spectre overloaded him. Quite simple.

Please explain how you came to the conclusion..

By damage's words.

Just to remind you that Damage overloaded and went Bigbang with Spectre's contribution of energy that pretty much is clear..

He didn't go bigbang at critical mass.. Your equation must account with what was presented in the scan not what if cause that would equal -- speculation..

He needed to detonate it as a controlled detonation. Ask yourself this why did he go uncontrolled when spectre pumped more energy into him when earlier he promised to waverider that he would detonate it as controllable?

Summarised it all..

Like I said, you don't have much knowledge of these characters and you proved it earlier.

The only way you'd come about with your conclusion regarding the blackbody upgrade is if we only take this one single panel where Surfer was questioning, "what will happen to his Universe" and then it was narrated as your, "question will remain unanswered for now".. Then disregard the few pages that came after..

Yeah that page came after unilord surfer tried to pass the rift and returned to unilord universe again. Now we're arbitrarily assuming that he went into 616 universe when there is no mention of him going there?

*skip*

Repeating these scans wouldn't prove yor case.

Its quite clear at least to me how this arc concluded and that is the writer choose to have this story connected to 616 Surfer therefore making it canon.

Now if you don't agree with it, its fine however you should ask similar stance of the Supes feat; detailed information, not assumption and speculation otherwise your double standard. [/B]

This is getting repetitive. If you're just going to post the same thing again and again, don't bother. This feat of superman is beyond surfer and learn to live with it. 😎

Love the Cinque of Cosmic Power

Thor, Silver Surfer,Green Lantern

Originally posted by abhilegend
That's not how these things work in the comics. Like I gave you the example before

Do you think that either etrigan or orion are as powerful as Highfather or Darkseid? Or let me give you another example

http://i779.photobucket.com/albums/yy73/R-O-G/Thor/GodBlastSavesMultiverse.jpg
http://i779.photobucket.com/albums/yy73/R-O-G/Thor/GodBlastSavesMultiverse2.jpg
http://i779.photobucket.com/albums/yy73/R-O-G/Thor/GodBlastSavesMultiverse3.jpg

In these type of feats if there is no mention that someone in the group contributed less than others, its automatically assumed that the contributed roughly evenly.

Your scan really doesn't prove your argument at all, there is not a single statement/narration that supports your claim.. All of it is solely base on your own opinion and not as a whole unless you have at the very least some statement by either a dc or marvel representative that state this, otherwise its just an assumption on your part.

Nope, that's not what I said. My stance is that if there is not such large power differences like spectre and superman, generally in such feats characters contribute evenly.

You do know that Spectre's involvement is unexpected, so how are you going to explain the even contribution part if the other characters didn't know that he was gonna contribute?

Irrelevant, they did the feat and its perfectly usable. I did no such calculations. I only said that they were given equal footings in that feat for a reason.

They trusted waverider.

No it doesn't. The writer intended to give them equal footings in that feat and without amping both ray and darkstar are nowhere near superman level of power. Only you would speculate to demean this feat when the writer's intent was perfectly clear to give superman equal footing in that feat.

Heck! You just said on your previous post, that it makes no diff. the individual power level because with this "type of feat when there is no mention that someone in the group contributed less than others, its automatically assumed that they contributed roughly evenly." yet why would the writer intended to amp certain characters to be near superman level if individual power level does not matter? Your using double standard again to get your point across, you just cant win this way..

Outside of unilord saga till annihilation, there isn't a single reference to surfer's upgrade that I've read upon and I've read nearly every appearance of surfer. Superman has referenced his upgrades multiple times after they happened.

I can play that game too..

Superman has used T-vo in a spectre comic FYI and blitzed people outside his own comic. Surfer didn't showed any increased abilities in the same volume and any showings outside that run for the case of his upgrade nearly ten years later is hilarious. You don't think that a claim that a character shows his upgrade nearly ten years later under a different writer hilarious? I mean c'mon.

10 years how did you come up to that conclusion? SS comics was cancelled a year 1\2 later after the Unilord arc, Mandrakk saga came when SS series was rebump as a mini.

Ask yourself this how many years has it been when Supes used TVO? How many times has he used it in dif. story arc other than Dominous arc? I don't know why im debating this way???? lol

I said "EVEN IF we assume that he just contributed 10% of the energy". Check the difference.

By the art and the dialogue.

Irrelevant to the situation in the hand, the power output is so great that any power difference is negligible.

Yeah, the comic itself proves that by quoting waverider that they all have to fire their accumulative energies into him.

Damage had already achieved critical mass as per the plan of waverider and parallax confirmed it by trying to kill him and then as damage explained spectre overloaded him. Quite simple.

Anyhow the bigbang was cause with Spectre's involvement not with the calculated plan of Waverider. This is where you have to base your argument and equation to your point.

Yeah that page came after unilord surfer tried to pass the rift and returned to unilord universe again. Now we're arbitrarily assuming that he went into 616 universe when there is no mention of him going there?

Not even all the surfer fanboys agree upon your conclusion and you expect me to agree upon this?

You do know you've been made a fool in this thread right, no one is taking your stance.. Read through the beginning, no one is taking you seriously..

I'm done..

Originally posted by Ambient
Where exactly did you get this guideline? Are there some rule book regarding this things that's publish by either DC or Marvel?

Common sense.

Your scan really doesn't prove your argument at all, there is not a single statement/narration that supports your claim.. All of it is solely base on your own opinion and not as a whole unless you have at the very least some statement by either a dc or marvel representative that state this, otherwise its just an assumption on your part.

Yeah, right. Like I said common sense, you don't believe it prove otherwise.

I quoted that from your previous post right? That's straight from your keyboard.. lol

That's not what I said.

You do know that Spectre's involvement is unexpected, so how are you going to explain the even contribution part if the other characters didn't know that he was gonna contribute?

Irrelevant, he came into play when damage reached the critical mass.

How is that irrelevant when you have not shown a single evidence that suggest your point is right.

Heck! You just said on your previous post, that it makes no diff. the individual power level because with this [B]"type of feat when there is no mention that someone in the group contributed less than others, its automatically assumed that they contributed roughly evenly." yet why would the writer intended to amp certain characters to be near superman level if individual power level does not matter? Your using double standard again to get your point across, you just cant win this way..

See above.

I am not a Surfer writer or worked in marvel so i couldn't answer why they only had ref. to this upgrade in Unilord Saga but you ask for ref. i gave it to you..

Nope! How about how his able to breath in space when prior to that he needed Oxygen for long distance travel.

Surfer needed to breath in space? Since when?

I can play that game too..

This is not a game, kid.

lol Dude! I have no control on the writers, i can't answer why they havent use those specific ability but what matters is that it was used once and was used again..

Not at that level, no. You know what an upgrade means, don't you?

10 years how did you come up to that conclusion?

Mardukk saga happened in SS v5
http://marvel.wikia.com/Silver_Surfer_Vol_5

SS comics was cancelled a year 1\2 later after the Unilord arc, Mandrakk saga came when SS series was rebump as a mini.

You just browse respect threads, now that's sure.

http://marvel.wikia.com/Silver_Surfer_Vol_3_146

They couldn't refer to his upgrade in 25 issues? What a shit character!

Ask yourself this how many years has it been when Supes used TVO?

How many times has he used it in dif. story arc other than Dominous arc?

I don't know why im debating this way???? lol

Your still assuming to give him % , very little diff. but your still equating..

Roughly equal.

Im talking about equal power level. where does it state or depicted on panel that Superman, Ray, Capt. Atom, Spectre, Darkstar had reach equal power level?

I'm not looking for your assumption but actual depiction narrated and represented in those scan..

You are just assigning random percentages based on nothing but your speculations.

???????????????? ???????????????? ?????????????? ???????????????

What?

They're combine power is not in question but your assumption "that each individual have made equal contribution' to form the accumulative energies fired into waverider. That you have never given proof.

Roughly equal and the comic itself is proof enough. You are still in denial.

Im not going to addressed everything because your not following through the argument, your not even countering it.

Concession accepted.

Anyhow the bigbang was cause with Spectre's involvement not with the calculated plan of Waverider. This is where you have to base your argument and equation to your point.

Now you are just being stubborn. let it go.

But there was a silver surfer that came out of the rift to 616 Univere as shown by as a silver comet.

now had the story ended at page 16 then yes id totally agree with you but it did not, the writer choose to end the story with the unilord making it out of the rift as shown in the latter pages now that is fact - that is not an assumption on my part - it is on panel depicted in the art as oppose to you disregarding all this pages..

lol!

You do know you've been made a fool in this thread right, no one is taking your stance..

Read through the beginning, no one is taking you seriously..

I'm done.. [/B]

Don't be mad because I beat you.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Common sense.

Yeah, right. Like I said common sense, you don't believe it prove otherwise.

U'd still require proof of evidence for the bases of that common sense. Common sense base solely on assumption or speculation is not adequate evidence towards a claim..

Debating 101 - Son..

Learn to follow through your argument man, this is getting frustrating and tiring. I have given proof to you on almost every post i responded. Ok! Here it is one last time:

1.) Fact - The characters involved are not of equal power level.
2.) Fact - The characters involved does not have equal absorption and energy projection capacity/capability..
3.) Fact - 3 of the characters involved absorb Parallax energy.
4.) Fact - Superman did not absorb Parallax energy.
5.) Fact - Spectre's unexpected contribution of energy.
6.) Fact - Damage overloaded and then went big bang.
7.) Fact - Waverider did not know and accounted his plan to Spectre's unexpected involvement.
8.) Fact - Damage did not go bigbang at critical mass.

All that are my evidence of uneven energy distribution debunking your even energy contribution..

My turn! Where is your evidence on your claim?

Irrelevant, he came into play when damage reached the critical mass

Spectre didn't contributed to damage reaching critical mass, he overloaded him going by on panel evidences. Your continuous refusal to see it isn't going to change anything. .

Spectre's energy contribution cause Damage to go over critical mass and overloaded resulting in uncontrolled big bang blast.

Like i said follow through man 🙄 .. Don't get so hang up at this Critical Mass. Fact - Damage did not explode at critical mass.

Do you only browse respect threads of surfer? Unilord saga concluded in SS v3 121 http://marvel.wikia.com/Silver_Surfer_Vol_3_121 Mardukk saga happened in SS v5 http://marvel.wikia.com/Silver_Surfer_Vol_5

Your getting desperate.. volume 4 was a reprint..

What the hell does this got to do with the debate? Now your just hating the character..

You are just assigning random percentages based on nothing but your speculations.

Your horrible at this..

I made a fool of surfer fanboys like you not the other way around.

I had thought you'd be a challenge to debate but I thought wrong..

Peace!!! Continue to be laugh at..

Originally posted by Ambient
no2

U'd still require proof of evidence for the bases of that common sense. Common sense base solely on assumption or speculation is not adequate evidence towards a claim..

I thought you quit.

Debating 101 - Son..

Oxymoron coming from you.

Learn to follow through your argument man, this is getting frustrating and tiring. I have given proof to you on almost every post i responded. Ok! Here it is one last time:

😂

1.) Fact - The characters involved are not of equal power level.
2.) Fact - The characters involved does not have equal absorption and energy projection capacity/capability..
3.) Fact - 3 of the characters involved absorb Parallax energy.
4.) Fact - Superman did not absorb Parallax energy.
5.) Fact - Spectre's unexpected contribution of energy.
6.) Fact - Damage overloaded and then went big bang.
7.) Fact - Waverider did not know and accounted his plan to Spectre's unexpected involvement.
8.) Fact - Damage did not go bigbang at critical mass.

I didn't ask for your interpretation of events. I thought I made that perfectly clear. You are just wasting our time.

All that are my evidence of uneven energy distribution debunking your even energy contribution..

Nope, try again.

My turn! [B]Where is your evidence on your claim?

Go to first page.

Dude! Its the most relevant of them all..

Spectre's energy contribution cause Damage to go over critical mass and overloaded resulting in uncontrolled big bang blast.

So you concede that spectre made damage go overloaded? Nice, now just accept that damage was already at critical mass ready to create the big bang as per waverider's plan when parallax tried to kill him and we can wrap this conversation.

Like i said follow through man 🙄 .. Don't get so hang up at this Critical Mass. Fact - Damage did not explode at critical mass.

Its the truth, I'm not making anything up like you are doing. He was going to when parallax tried to kill him.

😆

Your getting desperate.. volume 4 was a reprint..

Your point and the reason for laughing? I just gave you the link of the volume where mardukk saga happened as the wiki allows it to. I also know that vol 4 was a reprint. You are getting desperate trying to deflect facts by such weak tactics.

What the hell does this got to do with the debate? Now your just hating the character..

You are the one who brought up unilord saga being canon to 616 surfer, I just claimed otherwise.

Its not speculation when there is evidence presented on my claim while your counter argument is to disregard the remaining pages that concludes the ending of the story - weak..

So, we're just assuming that unilord surfer went to 616 universe after he returned to unilord dimension based upon a flight which he didn't complete and was shown to be returning to his universe a few pages later? No wonder surfer fans are deemed hilarious.

Your horrible at this..

You are nothing at this.

😂 😂 😂 This pretty much shows your rep in here forum 😂 😂 😂

I have better rep than you can imagine.

I had thought you'd be a challenge to debate but I thought wrong..

You can debate? News to me.

Peace!!! Continue to be laugh at.. [/B]

Run along and see who is laughing at me.

Originally posted by abhilegend
And gives Hal concussion after overpowering his blast with HV.

Superman straight up overpowered Hal in energy projection.
Anybody still think HV is weak?

vin

Lol...Superman was possessed by Parallax. Lol...that ft doesn't belong to him. This being makes the person it possess so powerful that children are able to 2 shot Superman. If anything, it's a ft for Lantern for battling Superman while amped to a standstill and I'm sure Lantern was holding back.

Oh Carver

Originally posted by carver9
Lol...Superman was possessed by Parallax. Lol...that ft doesn't belong to him. This being makes the person it possess so powerful that children are able to 2 shot Superman. If anything, it's a ft for Lantern for battling Superman while amped to a standstill and I'm sure Lantern was holding back.

Hal was mindcontrolled to think Superman was possessed by Parallax.