Basically two most powerful Sith in mythos. Force contest is a draw. So it becomes physical contest. Palpatine is master in both armed and unarmed combat, therefore he wins.
The only interesting thing to discuss is mental power of either of them.
Vitiate
"We underestimated his power. When we confronted him, he didn’t even have to fight us. Instead, he broke our wills. He dominated our minds, turning us into puppets to do his bidding."
Sounds impressive but it's too vague. We don't know what state of mind they had, what emotions and thoughts stirred in their head. Revan was the most powerful Jedi of his time but no matter how strong character is, his fear, doubts, despair and other negative emotions can be exposed making him much more vulnerable to mind influence. Basically we can only guess on how impressive this feat is.
Then we have fully prepared and over-confident Jedi strike team. But Vitiate didn't try to break their will, he electrocuted them instead and mind dominated after, when they had mental guard down. Then in fight with JK he didn't try mind domination either.
Sidious did not mind dominate a lot of people but he has got actual examples:
"“The Emperor appeared out of the settling smoke, glee on his face. He raised one hand as though to touch the apprentice. The apprentice felt a wave of hypnotic suggestion flow through him.
Yes! Kill him! He is weak, broken! Kill him and you can take your rightful place at my side!
The apprentice remained frozen, mesmerized by the Emperor's ghastly charisma. Why not? Wasn't this what he had considered on Raxus Prime? If he agreed to that plan, he would be free of one Master and slave to another-but what was to stop him from attacking that Master in turn, one day? He would not make the same mistakes Darth Vader had.
Darth Vader-who had murdered his father, lied to and betrayed him, killed PROXY, branded Juno a traitor, and kidnapped Kota and the others. Didn't he deserve to die a thousand times over?
And power-he had become used to it in the service of his Master. When the dark side sang through him, others danced to his will. That would be hard to give up.
"No!" Kota's voice came as though from a great distance. The apprentice noted, as though viewing the world in slow motion, the Jedi Master telekinetically snatching the Emperor's lightsaber from his waist and, with a surety belying his physical blindness, using it to cut down the Imperial Guards watching the prisoners. Lunging forward, he struck next at the Emperor, who stood, apparently unarmed, with one hand still reaching out for the apprentice.
But the Emperor was never unarmed. Raising his other hand, he blasted Kota with lightning before the blow came close to falling. Sith energy crackled between them and the Jedi Master fell back, caught in the Emperor's deadly grip.
"Help him!"
Bail Organa's voice snapped the apprentice out of his trance. He shook his head, feeling the Emperor's influence sliding off him like oil. What had he been thinking? He didn't want to return to the dark side after everything he had been through. He had seen what it did, in Maris Brood, on Felucia, and in the eyes of Darth Vader. He didn't even want to kill his Master, now that he saw him humbled and at his mercy. That was where it had all started, he now realized. When Darth Vader had killed Galen's father and Galen had snatched the lightsaber from his hand, his intention had been solely to avenge his father's death. That had been what Vader had seen in him all those years ago, not just that he was strong with the Force-and that was why Galen had blotted out the person he had once been. He had taken through. He had seen what it did, in Maris Brood, on Felucia, and in the eyes of Darth Vader. He didn't even want to kill his Master, now that he saw him humbled and at his mercy. That was where it had all started, he now realized. When Darth Vader had killed Galen's father and Galen had snatched the lightsaber from his hand, his intention had been solely to avenge his father's death. That had been what Vader had seen in him all those years ago, not just that he was strong with the Force-and that was why Galen had blotted out the person he had once been. He had taken that first step down the path of the dark side all on his own, before he had been subjected to Vader's cruel tutelage. He had to retract it now or submit to the dark side forever.
Murdering Darth Vader would accomplish nothing. Saving his friends might change the course of history.
Seen in that light, the decision was surprisingly easy."
This example clearly shows that Sidious utilizes mind domination to make others do what he wants. And that his influence works even on Marek with his unparalelled feats. Marek didn't even care, when Palpatine started killing Kota, thanks to Bale Organa for bringing him back to his senses.
Another example is Luke. By the end of their duel he mind dominated Luke. Also, we have mind dominated Kam Solusar.
Apart from that we have Mara, on his death he drove a thought to kill Skywalker and she became obsessed with that. Even after she befriended him and realized that she doesn't want to kill him, the thought and false dreams kept haunting her and she got read of it only by killing Luuke.
And on Palpatine's death entire fleet turned into chaos, which implies that he had influence on all of them.
So in case of Palpatine we don't have any hype but actual examples with two most powerful characters in the mythos being dominated.
And with Vitiate we have a lot of hype from stories but not a single demonstration.
So is Vitiate's mind domination is really stronger or he just abused this power much more often?
I fail to understand that how people have assumed that Sidious (ROTS incarnation) can stand up to Vitiate?
Vitiate is so strong in the Force that he does not needs a lightsaber to get the job done. He has good chance at overwhelming and defeating Sidious (ROTS incarnation) with his Force powers.
Also, he fights very differently from those 3 Jedi Masters that Sidious slew easily. They underestimated Sidious and paid for this dearly.
It is apparent from canonical sources that Vitiate attempts to prevent his opponents to strike him with the lightsaber. He has good chance to do so in this duel as well.
And actually... Arhael, I'd add DoE Bane to the "most powerful Sith in the mythos" list, making it three rather than two.
And as to the thread... Well, judging by the novel Revan, I agree that Sidious does defeat Vitiate in a purely physical duel, but forcewise... I doubt it. Evidence suggests that Vitiate's mind-dominating powers are unparalleled. Sidious, as proven, has considerable skill in this aspect as well, but I wouldn't say there's enough to demonstrate he's on par with Vitiate.
He dominated both Revan and Malak's minds, tricking them both into believing that they were actually his pawns... Hell, they attacked the Republic and turned to the dark side because he said so.
The real question here is: would he be able to do the same with Palpatine? I don't think so.
If there was no canon statements, all drew's characters would have been by far strongest in the mythos because it is how he portrays them. Adequate comparisons are impossible. If people rely on canon facts, then Sidious is more powerful by small margin but if we rely on feats alone, then Vitiate instantly kills Palpatine with a wave of hand and it's not an exaggeration.
Originally posted by Arhael
If there was no canon statements, all drew's characters would have been by far strongest in the mythos because it is how he portrays them. Adequate comparisons are impossible. If people rely on canon facts, then Sidious is more powerful by small margin but if we rely on feats alone, then Vitiate instantly kills Palpatine with a wave of hand and it's not an exaggeration.
Like he did to Revan amirite?
Originally posted by Pwned
No, but it is incorrect. Vitiate hasn't shown anything that say he could omgwtfbbq pwn Sidious. Let alone do that while Sidious is speed blitzing him.
This is what I specifically mean:
Originally posted by Arhael
Other authors at least make the most powerful villains to be something else like insane Jedi or Abeloth, so not to question Palpatine's status but Drew took things beyond any limits.
In Kotor we have immortal Darth Sion who couldn't even be killed by lightsaber. Then we have Traya that apprenticed him and she wasn't even born, when he was already actively participating in Exar Kun's war. She even aprenticed him second time later on. Serioisly what on earth did he need to learn from her??? Then we have Nihilus who stripped her off the Force, reaped starship out of mass shadows as well as holded it together and consumed planets. Then we have Meetra that somehow kills all of them. Then she gets casually defeated by Nyriss and she can't even block her lightning with lightsaber. Then Revan casually defeats Nyriss and later after that Meetra's embarrasing performance he says: "I always knew you had great potential, but you have become far greater than I could ever have imagined". Then Vitiate casually defeats Revan. Then JK defeats Vitiate. And still fans anticipate even more impressive stuff. Seriously, how many power levels in Drew's universe? It is on verge between stupid and idiotic.
Originally posted by Arhael
I agree with you. What I mean is that creator of the Kotor and TOR makes it look like that.This is what I specifically mean:
My problem with Drew is that he gives these characters this enormous amount of hype, the writes them as less than impressive.
Like
'ZOMG HE TOOK DOWN THE WHOLE DARK COUNCIL'
The he has trouble smiting Revan...and Meetra...MEETRA gives him hesitation. The same Meetra who was getting shitstomped by Nyriss.
Yeah, Drew tends to do to his characters what Traviss did to the Mandalorians. Good thing Traviss never wrote in any of Drew's characters, or they would be fighting mandos that wtfbbq beat them, then they go and mind rape the entire planet of Mandalore.
I enjoyed Drew's works up to DoE. The Bane trilogy was quite good imo, and KoToR 1 and 2 are obviously favorites. Other than that, Zahn ftw!
Originally posted by Pwned
Yeah, Drew tends to do to his characters what Traviss did to the Mandalorians. Good thing Traviss never wrote in any of Drew's characters, or they would be fighting mandos that wtfbbq beat them, then they go and mind rape the entire planet of Mandalore.I enjoyed Drew's works up to DoE. The Bane trilogy was quite good imo, and KoToR 1 and 2 are obviously favorites. Other than that, Zahn ftw!
Drew didn't write KOTOR II if I am correct. Which is probably why the Exile and the Trimunitive get shafted during the Revan novel.
I had thought he did the story for both KoToR games.
IMO, the biggest problem with KoToR 2 was the lack of backstory. Most people who bought the game were not going to go and get the stuff that actually provides it (I certainly didn't) and so they miss out. I would have preferred them to do it in-game. Like who GOTO actually is, how Nihilus and Sion came to be, Traya's exploits before the game, etc.