Contrast now how Wondy is able to resist the rope friction of a black hole pull by early 2000, as opposed to early 1990-something, here in the Circle of Fire series.
Note that Martian Manhunter, and even Superman himself, cannot resist the pull of this particular black hole unaided.
But Diana is strong enough to do so.
No chafing of the hands like in the Messner-Loebs adventure from the effort, though.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Source: Green Lantern: Circle of Fire #1, Volume 1
Writer: Brian K. Vaughan
Penciller: Norman Breyfogle
Date: October 2000
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http://dc.wikia.com/wiki/Green_Lantern:_Circle_of_Fire_Vol_1_1
Originally posted by bluewaterrider
Contrast now how Wondy is able to resist the rope friction of a black hole pull by early 2000, as opposed to early 1990-something, here in the Circle of Fire series.Note that Martian Manhunter, and even Superman himself, cannot resist the pull of this particular black hole unaided.
But Diana is strong enough to do so.
No chafing of the hands like in the Messner-Loebs adventure from the effort, though.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Source: Green Lantern: Circle of Fire #1, Volume 1
Writer: Brian K. Vaughan
Penciller: Norman Breyfogle
Date: October 2000
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://dc.wikia.com/wiki/Green_Lantern:_Circle_of_Fire_Vol_1_1
Clark seemed fine to me, I think he was gonna jump in there and save mm but the gl stopped him
Originally posted by Sin I AM
Clark seemed fine to me, I think he was gonna jump in there and save mm but the gl stopped him
Glad you can believe that then, 'cause I can't. Not in THAT particular era, where every other writer was making a point to say Manhunter was the equal or superior of Superman, even to the point of several characters calling him the most powerful JLA member, including Superman himself.
But that misses the point in relation to this thread regardless, and that is that early post-Crisis Wonder Woman WAS a "glass cannon", or at any rate had low durability, just as gundam asserted a few posts earlier.
The Diana of the early 90s would not have been able to withstand any significant attack from Extremis Iron Man.
Or any Iron Man, for that matter.
Certainly not without equipment shielding.
But early 90s Wonder Woman is not what we had just prior to the reboot. THAT particular Wonder Woman demonstrated strength and durability on another level entirely.
Originally posted by Sin I AM
Dunno, I just don't see it but like I said its all subjective.IMO Diana would be hard pressed to but down stark sans, its not like her powerset is unique
Comics aren't hard and fast physics, so I'll accept this, but not without saying that I've found, and continue to find, that people make an incredible amount of excuses for Superman coming short in any particular case, far above and beyond what they seem to for any other character.
That characterizes many of the fans here, it extends to at least one of the moderators, and it does so to a degree I've not found on any other board that discusses comic books.
I'm really beginning to wonder what the deal is here.
2 people before you, for instance, tried to convince me that, yes, Superman was weaker against that black hole than Wonder Woman, but it was ... it was ... it was, uhm ... because that villain Oblivion created a miniature red sun! Yes, Oblivion created a miniature red sun ...!
Well, they're partially right.
That part actually DOES happen in the comic.
They're right that Oblivion eventually conjures a mini red-sun to combat Superman.
Unfortunately, THAT happens AFTER this scene we've been discussing with the black hole, and after the black hole has largely been abandoned and allowed to peter out by Oblivion as an attack against the heroes ...
Originally posted by bluewaterrider
Comics aren't hard and fast physics, so I'll accept this, but not without saying that I've found, and continue to find, that people make an incredible amount of excuses for Superman coming short in any particular case, far above and beyond what they seem to for any other character.That characterizes many of the fans here, it extends to at least one of the moderators, and it does so to a degree I've not found on any other board that discusses comic books.
I'm really beginning to wonder what the deal is here.2 people before you, for instance, tried to convince me that, yes, Superman was weaker against that black hole than Wonder Woman, but it was ... it was ... it was, uhm ... because that villain Oblivion created a miniature red sun! Yes, Oblivion created a miniature red sun ...!
Well, they're partially right.
That part actually DOES happen in the comic.
They're right that Oblivion eventually conjures a mini red-sun to combat Superman.Unfortunately, THAT happens AFTER this scene we've been discussing with the black hole, and after the black hole has largely been abandoned and allowed to peter out by Oblivion as an attack against the heroes ...
Im lost are u saying he was weakened?
BWR, what exactly is your point? You talk in circles.
I think Superman > Wonder Woman. However, I think Wonder Woman is close enough to his stats that with her equipment it usually makes it a fair fight. I don't view her as a glass cannon - I view her blunt force durability pretty high - it's her piercing durability that has had problems, IMO
As for the Circle of Fire comic, I didn't see that as Superman falling victim to the black hole - I saw him diving to help Martian Manhunter with Green Lantern as an anchor. MM might be just as powerful (IMO, well written, considering all the powers he has at his disposal, he should be more powerful). Remember that this was not a Justice League comic, but a Green Lantern one. Characters tend to act differently in different series and power levels shift.
On the topic of Wonder Woman vs Iron Man, I usually see Wonder Woman winning that battle. However, without her equipment it makes the fight much more interesting. I think Iron Man has dealt with enough bricks to be able to hang onto an even 50-50 here - if he gets creative and uses his more versatile tricks, then a definite 6-7/10 in his favor.
Originally posted by Konton
Okay, where has she had piercing durability problems in the last 20 years? Give me one non-magically enhanced instance of piercing.
Originally posted by -Pr-
I don't think he meant that her piercing durability was weak, just that it wasn't as impressive as her blunt-force durability.
👆
Not that it matters, but my reasoning was based on her need to block things like bullets. I may be wrong, and I'd gladly change my perspective on the matter, but her need to block bullets as opposed to tank them like Superman just makes me assume her piercing durability is not as high as her ability to take a punch.
Originally posted by Blair Wind
BWR, what exactly is your point? You talk in circles.
Circular routes get me to more of the places I am interested in seeing.
Originally posted by Blair Wind
I think Superman > Wonder Woman.
For the express purpose of this thread, taking on a special armor edition of Iron Man, I agree. Superman is far more innately suited to fighting Extremis than Diana is.
Originally posted by Blair Wind
I don't view [Diana] as a glass cannon - I view her blunt force durability pretty high - it's her piercing durability that has had problems, IMO
Clarification on your part would be appreciated here.
Would laser-style blasts fall under the heading of "piercing" durability, for instance? What about bullets? Is Wonder Woman, in your mind, as vulnerable to these things as an average human would be, or is there a higher force and damage threshhold with her that needs to be passed? Could a .22 kill her? A .44 Magnum? Please be a little more specific about what you mean, what you're basing it on, and why it would matter for this fight.
Originally posted by Blair Wind
As for the Circle of Fire comic, I didn't see that as Superman falling victim to the black hole - I saw him diving to help Martian Manhunter with Green Lantern as an anchor.
But you're not thinking this through.
Why did Superman need GREEN LANTERN to anchor him in the first place?
Originally posted by Blair Wind
MM might be just as powerful (IMO, well written, considering all the powers he has at his disposal, he should be more powerful).
I agree.
Originally posted by Blair Wind
Remember that this was not a Justice League comic, but a Green Lantern one. Characters tend to act differently in different series and power levels shift.
This is true across the board since the creative staff that handles these characters varies constantly over time.
Originally posted by Blair Wind
On the topic of Wonder Woman vs Iron Man, I usually see Wonder Woman winning that battle. However, without her equipment it makes the fight much more interesting.
LARGELY agree ...
Originally posted by Blair Wind
I think Iron Man has dealt with enough bricks to be able to hang onto an even 50-50 here - if he gets creative and uses his more versatile tricks, then a definite 6-7/10 in his favor.
Disagree, but I haven't seen enough Extremis Iron Man to understand your point of view. Everything I've seen of Diana facing similar opponents tells me, assuming this is the standard type of semi-annual, city-wide ranging battle both Tony and Diana are wont to wage, that this is Wonder Woman's fight to decide.
At least if we're going with any serious post-2005 version of her character.
EARLY post-Crisis Diana?
Different story.
That was not a black hole to begin with and blue seems to forget the following page AGAIN. This is the full sequence of that scene
http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/12/121014/2383700-glcircleoffire162mv_1__super.jpg
http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/5/56131/1442125-01_green_lantern_circle_of_fire_28_super.jpg
We see superman rushing and punching oblivion who was standing behind that "cosmic event", shrugging off any suction from that tunnel. Context actually matters sometime.
As for her piercing durability, here is mighty wonder woman dying from a bullet wound
http://i39.tinypic.com/ogkgm8.jpg
