bullet wound scene. isolate and narration elim.
Legends of the DC Universe #4.
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Source: Legends of the DC Universe #4, Volume 1
Writer: William Messner-Loebs
Penciller: Mike Deodato, Jr.
Date: May 1998
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http://dc.wikia.com/wiki/Legends_of_the_DC_Universe_Vol_1_4
Another spot of seeming randomness.
Link to article of superhero casting.
The guy did an uncanny job of picking some people even though this is 2 years ago ...
Originally posted by bluewaterrider
It's not as nonsensical as you think.Whales endure the crushing depths of the ocean, for instance.
If I remember right, they can dive to depths that will actually crush the average unprepared submarine.
Shoot them with a gun, though, and the bullet will pierce the whale's skin while doing variable damage beneath that (depending on where you aimed and with what, of course).
There are specific examples in the real world that reflect what comic writers were thinking of when they created the motifs that seem so strange to us now.
yes, but aquaman isn't built like a whale. animals that can go that deep, do so because their bodies are biologically adapted to do so, with their bodies making sure that air pressure and the like doesn't kill them.
Aquaman has been stated as simply being tough enough to survive at those depths, not that it's a natural biological function.
Then there's his massive super strength. To be that strong, he'd need the kind of dense musculature that deep-sea creatures lack, which creates another problem, as strength and durability are almost always linked on a core level.
Originally posted by -Pr-
yes, but aquaman isn't built like a whale. animals that can go that deep, do so because their bodies are biologically adapted to do so, with their bodies making sure that air pressure and the like doesn't kill them.Aquaman has been stated as simply being tough enough to survive at those depths, not that it's a natural biological function.
Then there's his massive super strength. To be that strong, he'd need the kind of dense musculature that deep-sea creatures lack, which creates another problem, as strength and durability are almost always linked on a core level.
No offense, P.R., but, you speak a language I do not understand and find it difficult to follow and relate to.
You tell me Aquaman does not have natural biological function to survive underwater, yet most reading experience to date tells me he is SO tied to the sea that he must return to water every day, often in as little as an hour, or he will die.
You tell me he has "massive super strength", yet in contest with the person most like him, Marvel Comics' Sub Mariner, Namor, he must resort to sneak attack by an Orca, of all things, to stand a fighting chance against the mutant.
He virtually disappears against the heavy-hitters on any given JLA comic, resorting to story-specific magic or special mental tricks, such as when he manages to give a White Martian the equivalent of a seizure with a telepathic attack in New World Order.
He relies on Wonder Woman to free him from the wreck of an undersea ship searching for gold.
(The episode escapes my memory for a moment but Arthur admits in the same scenario that, for all his supposed annoyance with Diana, he wants her so badly he can hardly stand to be around her. No joke.)
I don't see what's so "massive" about Aquaman at all, lest we're talking about the companions he can summon to aid him in a fight.
You talk about things as if they are common knowledge that relatively few people are actually in the know about.
As for "strength and durability are almost always linked on a core level" ... ? You won't find too many long term Wonder Woman readers that can agree with that one. Not to the extent that YOU seem to believe, certainly.
That's actually one reason I'm taking the time to illustrate that, yes, in the past, Wonder Woman WAS a "glass cannon" as some poster on page 1 or 2 called her.
But that didn't equal "Wonder Woman is weak" in the past.
And the low durability isn't something that stayed to the end of her pre-reboot run, either.
Originally posted by bluewaterrider
No offense, P.R., but, you speak a language I do not understand and find it difficult to follow and relate to.You tell me Aquaman does not have natural biological function to survive underwater, yet most reading experience to date tells me he is SO tied to the sea that he must return to water every day, often in as little as an hour, or he will die.
You tell me he has "massive super strength", yet in contest with the person most like him, Marvel Comics' Sub Mariner, Namor, he must resort to sneak attack by an Orca, of all things, to stand a fighting chance against the mutant.
He virtually disappears against the heavy-hitters on any given JLA comic, resorting to story-specific magic or special mental tricks, such as when he manages to give a White Martian the equivalent of a seizure with a telepathic attack in New World Order.
He relies on Wonder Woman to free him from the wreck of an undersea ship searching for gold.
(The episode escapes my memory for a moment but Arthur admits in the same scenario that, for all his supposed annoyance with Diana, he wants her so badly he can hardly stand to be around her. No joke.)I don't see what's so "massive" about Aquaman at all, lest we're talking about the companions he can summon to aid him in a fight.
You talk about things as if they are common knowledge that relatively few people are actually in the know about.
As for "strength and durability are almost always linked on a core level" ... ? You won't find too many long term Wonder Woman readers that can agree with that one. Not to the extent that YOU seem to believe, certainly.
That's actually one reason I'm taking the time to illustrate that, yes, in the past, Wonder Woman WAS a "glass cannon" as some poster on page 1 or 2 called her.
But that didn't equal "Wonder Woman is weak" in the past.
And the low durability isn't something that stayed to the end of her pre-reboot run, either.
Him having to remain out of water for less than an hour is an out-dated condition that hasn't effected him since the late 80s. Peter David even made fun of it in his books.
Crossovers aren't really sufficient evidence, and Aquaman does have feats of strength in the dozens, if not hundreds of tons in weight.
Disappears? When was this? The Martian was stronger than he was. I can cite numerous examples of Arthur being as much of a contributor as any of his teammates in JLA battles.
No. Arthur wasn't trapped in the undersea ship, if it's the example I think you're referring to. He had been trapped when the cavern collapsed around him, and needed someone stronger than him (which Diana is), to pull him out.
Nice that you make a comment about him wanting her, when she's exhibited the same attraction towards him, especially when he saved her life when they were teens.
Wonder Woman has, for years now, had incredibly high levels of blunt force durability, something that wasn't always true of Aquaman. When he got his upgrade in the early 90s, that was rectified to an extent.
Honestly, you don't seem like a troll or a spammer, but seriously, you're going to have to start reading the material, AND making less personal comments about members of the forum.
Originally posted by Blair Wind
BWR, if you use a service like tinypic.com, imageshack.com, etc you could upload all those photo's as links. It would make it easier to just have one post of links than 5 of a single image.You can even put in several pictures in thumbnail view if you simply like people to see the images.
The problem with using outside image host providers like the companies you mention Blair, is that, besides registration hassles, you run the risk of losing your information (the pictures) in about 5 different ways.
I know.
I've experienced most of them.
Virtually every major poster who has been on this board more than a year has probably experienced the same thing.
Check out the following for a concrete example of what I'm talking about. Dawsey's "Wonder Woman Respect Thread", once a resource equal to something DarkCrawler himself might create.
Now, sadly, a virtual wasteland of broken links:
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/f95/t362733.html
Contrast that to the annoying but enduring quality of KMC uploaded pictures. Only a major revamp of the system itself or the actual closing of KMC itself is likely to remove anything posted here for the benefit of fans.
A stability the others you mentioned can't promise.
Thank you for the suggestion, though.
I use photobucket and never have problems unless I hit bandwidth, which almost *never* happens and isn't really an issue for posting ref pics here.
That's actually one reason I'm taking the time to illustrate that, yes, in the past, Wonder Woman WAS a "glass cannon" as some poster on page 1 or 2 called her.
I'll note during the WML run, where she's definitely pretty vulnerable to piercing and such... she still fought a Daxamite.
It was a weird time, durability wise.
Originally posted by Q99
I use photobucket and never have problems unless I hit bandwidth, which almost *never* happens and isn't really an issue for posting ref pics here.I'll note during the WML run, where she's definitely pretty vulnerable to piercing and such... she still fought a Daxamite.
It was a weird time, durability wise.
Any chance you've got the Legends of the DC Universe issue I referred to earlier?
That particular book was also a William Messner-Leobs (WML) project, and I'd really like to post some more images of it here if possible.
Again, the opponents Diana fights in LoDCU#4 are fairly analagous to "Hulk Buster" Iron Man, and illustrate just how strong Diana has proven herself to be, even during her youngest start-up days, against armored fighters.
P.R., thanks for responding to my P.M.
With my only immediately pressing concern with you addressed for the present, let me respond to the rest of what you wrote now.
Originally posted by -Pr-
[Aquaman] having to remain out of water for less than an hour is an out-dated condition that hasn't affected him since the late 80s. Peter David even made fun of it in his books.
Fair enough, but, is this something the casual non-Aquaman-reading fan will be thoroughly aware of? For that matter, while it lasted, decades into the comics, other media, and several iterations of the character, it certainly smacked of specifically physical adaptation to the water.
Originally posted by -Pr-
Peter David [PAD] even made fun of it in his books...
PAD is a bit of a Metal Age revisionist. He made fun of Supergirl's formerly planet-moving level of power in Many Happy Returns, too.
I was actually going to use him as an example of how a DC writer can arbitrarily decide to limit or empower a character contrary to prior portrayals. Difficult for all but the most expansive of in-story mythos ... i? (Mythosi?) to accomodate that ...
Wonder Woman's mythos, however (being empowered and depowered at will by capricious gods), is inherently more flexible toward drastic change than nearly any other character in comics.
Originally posted by -Pr-
Crossovers aren't really sufficient evidence, and Aquaman does have feats of strength in the dozens, if not hundreds of tons in weight.
I have knowledge of few, if any, of these.
I doubt your average comic fan does, either. I would assert, in fact, that the average professional comic book writer does not have such knowledge either, else Namor versus Aquaman would have been written as a more equal engagment.
Not saying that's the way it should be, mind you, just the way it probably is.
Originally posted by -Pr-
I can cite numerous examples of Arthur being as much of a contributor as any of his teammates in JLA battles.
Aquaman winning a brawl-style engagement or performing some task useful to resolving a story that involved obvious great physical strength is what is required to be convincing here.
Originally posted by -Pr-
Arthur wasn't trapped in the undersea ship, if it's the example I think you're referring to. He had been trapped when the cavern collapsed around him, and needed someone stronger than him (which Diana is), to pull him out.
I think you're right. As alluded to earlier, I was trying to recall the episode. Like Legends of the DC Universe #4, I have that issue in storage, but an indeterminate amount of work needs to be done before I can get anything from that book put up in here. It's not sitting in any laptop folder I could access with a few clicks like many of the other things I've posted in these forums.
Originally posted by -Pr-
Nice that you make a comment about him wanting her, when she's exhibited the same attraction towards him, especially when he saved her life when they were teens.
I think you're referring to Flashpoint now?
DC went so far as to have them engaged to be married in that storyline.
The episode I'm referring to predates Flashpoint. It's a JLA 80 Page Giant. 1998, I believe.
That wasn't a slam of any sort. That's almost verbatim what Arthur himself says in the story.
Fact, just now I searched and found a review of that scene.
Note that it is in context of a review of the current Justice League #4 2011 or 2012:
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
" ... In 1998's JLA 80-Page Giant #1, which Johns almost certainly read, there's a short story called "Revelations" written by Christopher Priest and illustrated by Eric Battle and Prentis Rollins. In it, Wonder Woman and Aquaman are towing an imperiled submarine to safety, using Wondy's golden lasso. During the course of their conversation, Aquaman—then in his anti-social, grumpy, bearded phase—starts telling her that he's attracted to her even though she annoys him, and she's a big part of the reason he still hangs out with the Justice League, and she points out that he apparently has become entangled in the rope while they were doing their towing.
While Priest goes to the trouble of setting up a reason for Aquaman to accidentally end up in Wonder Woman's rope, Johns' story and Lee's staging of it simply has Green Lantern standing very close to Wonder Woman, whom he has just met, and being affected by the rope, which she is wearing on her hip. It's a long shot, so we don't actually see what he's doing with his hand, only that it's near the rope.
So Hal was either touching her hip for some odd reason, or simply idly fingering the magical artifact that she was wearing on her hip and, well, neither makes any sense at all in the context of the scene..."
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http://everydayislikewednesday.blogspot.com/2012/03/wow-justice-league-4-was-really-really.html
Originally posted by -Pr-
Wonder Woman has, for years now, had incredibly high levels of blunt force durability, something that wasn't always true of Aquaman. When he got his upgrade in the early 90s, that was rectified to an extent.
'Kay.
Originally posted by bluewaterrider
Fair enough, but, is this something the casual non-Aquaman-reading fan will be thoroughly aware of? For that matter, while it lasted, decades into the comics, other media, and several iterations of the character, it certainly smacked of specifically physical adaptation to the water.
It did, but I would say, and not to be crass, but ignorance of a character isn't an excuse. We wouldn't allow it for Hulk, Superman or Thor, so should we for Aquaman?
PAD is a bit of a Metal Age revisionist. He made fun of Supergirl's formerly planet-moving level of power in Many Happy Returns, too.
I was actually going to use him as an example of how a DC writer can arbitrarily decide to limit or empower a character contrary to prior portrayals. Difficult for all but the most expansive of in-story mythos ... i? (Mythosi?) to accomodate that ...
The only thing about that, is that Peter David completelty redesigned Aquaman, and it stuck. It wasn't temporary. The hook was, yes, but the personality, the attitude, even the character's status, has been the way it has for years because of PAD. We're talking Johns on GL levels of involvement and influence here.
I have knowledge of few, if any, of these.
I doubt your average comic fan does, either. I would assert, in fact, that the average professional comic book writer does not have such knowledge either, else Namor versus Aquaman would have been written as a more equal engagment.
But I could say the same about, say, Storm Vs Wonder Woman. Or Superboy Vs Spider-Man. Crossovers in general were just poorly written, wouldn't you say?
Aquaman winning a brawl-style engagement or performing some task useful to resolving a story that involved obvious great physical strength is what is required to be convincing here.
In several JLA stories, his physical strength or willpower (outside of telepathy) has enabled him to compete on a level equal to his compatriots. In Earth 2, in year 1, on a lot of the Morrison stuff. Hell, even in the most recent JLA arcs, he's shown to stab Darkseid with his trident. Twice.
Originally posted by bluewaterrider
I think you're right. As alluded to earlier, I was trying to recall the episode. Like Legends of the DC Universe #4, I have that issue in storage, but an indeterminate amount of work needs to be done before I can get anything from that book put up in here. It's not sitting in any laptop folder I could access with a few clicks like many of the other things I've posted in these forums.I think you're referring to Flashpoint now?
DC went so far as to have them engaged to be married in that storyline.The episode I'm referring to predates Flashpoint. It's a JLA 80 Page Giant. 1998, I believe.
That wasn't a slam of any sort. That's almost verbatim what Arthur himself says in the story.
Fact, just now I searched and found a review of that scene.
Note that it is in context of a review of the current Justice League #4 2011 or 2012:------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
" ... In 1998's JLA 80-Page Giant #1, which Johns almost certainly read, there's a short story called "Revelations" written by Christopher Priest and illustrated by Eric Battle and Prentis Rollins. In it, Wonder Woman and Aquaman are towing an imperiled submarine to safety, using Wondy's golden lasso. During the course of their conversation, Aquaman—then in his anti-social, grumpy, bearded phase—starts telling her that he's attracted to her even though she annoys him, and she's a big part of the reason he still hangs out with the Justice League, and she points out that he apparently has become entangled in the rope while they were doing their towing.While Priest goes to the trouble of setting up a reason for Aquaman to accidentally end up in Wonder Woman's rope, Johns' story and Lee's staging of it simply has Green Lantern standing very close to Wonder Woman, whom he has just met, and being affected by the rope, which she is wearing on her hip. It's a long shot, so we don't actually see what he's doing with his hand, only that it's near the rope.
So Hal was either touching her hip for some odd reason, or simply idly fingering the magical artifact that she was wearing on her hip and, well, neither makes any sense at all in the context of the scene..."
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://everydayislikewednesday.blogspot.com/2012/03/wow-justice-league-4-was-really-really.html'Kay.
I'm not talking about Flashpoint, rather the comic where Triton seeks to take a teenage Diana as his bride. Arthur is one of, if not THE key component in preventing that from happening.
Had men been allowed on Themyscira, he would have been her first kiss too.
Originally posted by -Pr-
Honestly, you don't seem like a troll or a spammer, but seriously, you're going to have to start reading the material ...
I do have to say that I thought THIS portion of your message was a bit unfair.
Aquaman is actually quite foreign and off-topic to what the original poster originally intended to be discussed in this thread.
Title of this thread being what it is and all, you'd expect, ideally, that participants would either know about Wonder Woman, know about Iron Man, or know about both characters and what they can and cannot do.
Knowledge of Aquaman? Not such an obvious pre-requisite.
I'd expect anyone introducing HIM into this thread to be prepared to give reasons why he's relevant and supply at least a little background knowledge to other readers.
Especially when I tried to bridge the gap with the following offering:
"There are specific examples in the real world that reflect what comic writers were thinking of when they created the motifs that seem so strange to us now ..."
That statement connects Aquaman to Wonder Woman in terms of this thread. Extensive Aquaman knowledge beyond that you should expect people to question and ask you to defend and explain the relevancy of. They're not just going to know it just because.
Having said all that ... any chance YOU'VE got some images of the armor battle in Legends of the DC Universe #4 ...?
Very annoying having this stuff and currently being unable to upload it for people ...
Originally posted by bluewaterrider
I do have to say that I thought THIS portion of your message was a bit unfair.Aquaman is actually quite foreign and off-topic to what the original poster originally intended to be discussed in this thread.
Title of this thread being what it is and all, you'd expect, ideally, that participants would either know about Wonder Woman, know about Iron Man, or know about both characters and what they can and cannot do.
Knowledge of Aquaman? Not such an obvious pre-requisite.
I'd expect anyone introducing HIM into this thread to be prepared to give reasons why he's relevant and supply at least a little background knowledge to other readers.Especially when I tried to bridge the gap with the following offering:
"There are specific examples in the real world that reflect what comic writers were thinking of when they created the motifs that seem so strange to us now ..."That statement connects Aquaman to Wonder Woman in terms of this thread. Extensive Aquaman knowledge beyond that you should expect people to question and ask you to defend and explain the relevancy of. They're not just going to know it just because.
Having said all that ... any chance YOU'VE got some images of the armor battle in Legends of the DC Universe #4 ...?
Very annoying having this stuff and currently being unable to upload it for people ...
i wasn't trying to be mean, so if you felt like it was unfair, my apologies.
Yes, i know that too.
if you'll remember, you were the one who started getting in to detail about Aquaman; I was merely talking about his similarity to Wonder Woman as regards flexible durability. 😛
I can find it. What was the issue again?
Originally posted by -Pr-
I can find it. What was the issue again?
Ref Info once again, including Wikia link:
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Source: Legends of the DC Universe #4, Volume 1
Writer: William Messner-Loebs
Penciller: Mike Deodato, Jr.
Date: May 1998
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http://dc.wikia.com/wiki/Legends_of_the_DC_Universe_Vol_1_4
And the scenes I'm most interested in are Diana tearing the suit off of one of her combatants and crushing the cannon of the same or other. Anything beyond that is gravy.
Thank you in advance for your time.
