Who Can Beat Flash/Zoom with CIS off?

Started by carver95 pages
Originally posted by JakeTheBank
If you apply real world physics and logic to characters who clearly defecate on them through virtue of existing, then they're going to become gods in "forum mode".

Pretty much and this is what I have been telling Mike for yrs.

Originally posted by Stoic
I think Quick Silver needs some respect. I wonder if he could beat his dad if CIS were off?

I'd say he has a good chance.

It's actually what I've been telling Carver for years.

There's a difference between trying to quantify something that can actually be measured and something that can't.

Originally posted by Mindset
It's actually what I've been telling Carver for years.

Lol....

Originally posted by Endless Mike
There's a difference between trying to quantify something that can actually be measured and something that can't.

Gladiator has flown 100 times the speed of light and has planet destroying strength. Using your calculations, he should outright kill anyone with a single punch to the face. Don't you agree.?

Nope. Because, like I said, you can't determine the mass/KE of an FTL object, and some people in comics can tank planet destroying punches.

Originally posted by Endless Mike
Nope. Because, like I said, you can't determine the mass/KE of an FTL object, and some people in comics can tank planet destroying punches.

So some people can tank planetary punches coming to them at 100 times the speed of light? Scans?

Originally posted by carver9
So some people can tank planetary punches coming to them at 100 times the speed of light? Scans?

Scans first that the extra speed makes them any more powerful.

It really wouldn't. Just harder to avoid.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Scans first that the extra speed makes them any more powerful.

I don't think any of this...this is Mike mixing real world logic with comic books.

Originally posted by Endless Mike
If you really wanted to calculate how much energy an FTL object would have, you would have to:

- Observe FTL objects hitting things in real life
- Develop a mathematical formula from those observations
- Use it to calculate the energy

According to all the physics we know, matter/energy moving FTL just isn't possible. So we can't calculate how much power/energy an FTL object would have.

You might as well try to use science to attach a number to Mr. Mxyzptlk making 2 + 2 = fish.

You do realize that that post you just quoted disproves your previous argument, right?

Of course you don't.

Originally posted by Endless Mike
You do realize that that post you just quoted disproves your previous argument, right?

Of course you don't.

Real world logic doesn't equal comic book logic.

Mike knows this - he said:

There's a difference between trying to quantify something that can actually be measured and something that can't.

You then come up with an example of Glads. Which, as Mike said, CANNOT be quantified.

Agree with you 100% carver, that real world logic does not equal comic book logic, but only sometimes. There is still an inherent set of rules within comic books that is SOMETIMES the same as in the real world.

Well, anyway, Iron Fist beats them.

Originally posted by Endless Mike
It really wouldn't. Just harder to avoid.

In other words any object made of matter has no business moving or even approaching the speed of light due to the laws of friction, and if by chance matter was to be moving at such a speed, it would likely break up upon contact. molecules being what they are and all, nothing is truly solid. However being encased within the Speed Force allows for Character A to destroy Character B upon contact while moving at light speed. The Flash is a beast. 🙂

Originally posted by Stoic
In other words any object made of matter has no business moving or even approaching the speed of light due to the laws of friction

Relativity, actually.

and if by chance matter was to be moving at such a speed, it would likely break up upon contact. molecules being what they are and all, nothing is truly solid. However being encased within the Speed Force allows for Character A to destroy Character B upon contact while moving at light speed. The Flash is a beast.

Speedforce lets you basically say "screw you" to physics, problem is that if you do that, then you can't exactly use physics to predict how hard he's going to be hitting someone, unless the events of the comic make it clear that they're being used.

For example, IMP, which was used at just under the speed of light. Could he do it while moving over the speed of light? I don't know - maybe? Probably?

Would it be any more powerful? Not necessarily.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Careful Stoic, you're veering into using real world logic and applying it to comics...

But EndlessMike is right. As you approach lightspeed, you approach infinity.

Twice lightspeed does not mean twice infinity, and even if it did, its kinda meaningless.

Back to the issue at hand. Although Flash travels at multiples of lightspeed, I don't think it means he has multiples of infinite mass behind his punches. So it would do the same damage as a lightspeed IMP, IMO.

actually as his speed continuously grows it doesn't really matter much about the mass. If this were say Barry entering speed force which follows no physics because the more he runs the more it grows the faster he can go continuing its growth while it can sustain him, his speed keeps growing and with that the amount of energy keeps amping up. If he were to keep pushing top speed and maxing out the force of the impact he would make would just keep going up and auto shields or no eventually hes going to be able to hit a point where he would absolutely shatter any shield you care to toss up. best most people could do is stalemate if they can start intangible.

But as for who beats Flash. Deadman could do it if the Flash stopped for a second. Invisibility + Intangibility + Possession. Also forget his name but the dude who basically stops incoming forms of energy including kinetic. just outright negates.

Wundarr the Aquarian