Re: Re: White Supremacist Gunman massacres Sikh Temple
Originally posted by Oliver North
1) the dark knight rises was a larger media event in general, thus there was the association factor.2) a white supremacist being violent is a very manageable media narrative. People feel little need to engage with it beyond that fact, as it inherently "makes sense" in a way that a crazy person shooting up a theater doesn't.
3) gun violence in the DKR incident finally prompted some at least semi-serious talk about gun control, in this instance it was an ex-soldier using a legally owned pistol or 2, something even the strictest gun control (short of an outright ban) would do little to solve.
4) the racial issue, as Lucien mentioned.
As a 5th, perhaps people can only be so interested in similar stories, and everyone already lost their shit and hours of their life caring about the last one...
Originally posted by jaden101
Saddest thing about these events is that it always comes back to the debate about gun control when it should be going to the debate on what kind of a mental health care system manages to let so many clearly mentally disturbed people slip through the net.
barring a massive invasion of individual privacy, how would you have justified this man being subjected to involuntary psychological evaluation?
Aurora/Milwaukee gun-control conspiracy theories make no sense[Jonathan Kay]
In the wake of the recent mass shootings in Aurora, Col. and Milwaukee, I’ve been getting a lot of email from conspiracy theorists pointing me to sites like this one, run by a certain Jon Rappoport:
[quote]Media outlets are now reporting that Wade Michael Page, the accused Sikh Temple shooter, received a less-than-honorable discharge from the US Army in 1998, after his last posting in a psychological operations unit at Fort Bragg. Prior to that, Page worked as a missile system repairman. Immediately, questions are raised. Under what circumstances does a missile repair man suddenly switch to a psyops unit? In preparation for later use as a patsy? … The [government's goal in staging such shootings] is: outlawing guns; tighter surveillance throughout the land (if that’s even possible, given what we already have); “come home to the government, we will protect you”; individuals who stand outside the collective are crazy and dangerous; remain passive and wait for our leaders to take action; report all suspicious activity. Fascism Central.
This blogger, likewise sees the Milwaukee shooting as a “false flag” operation that is part of “the dark chronicles of psychological operations throughout history.” And this guy — reporting for Alex Jones’ conspiracist Infowars.com web site — claims the Milwaukee shooting was done by a “4-man team.” A separate article on Infowars claims that the Milwaukee shooting shows “The US government is not only coming after the 2nd Amendment, but [is] now framing US Army veterans in a false flag operation where extremists are the new threat.” Similar articles, alleging the same plot to impose gun control on American citizens, circulated after the Aurora shootings.
Of course, all great tragedies bring out conspiracy theorists — since, at root, conspiracy theories are theories of human evil and illegitimate power. But this one seems particularly illogical for one clear reason that even the conspiracy theorists themselves can’t argue with: No major politician of any national importance has used either the Colorado or Milwaukee killings as a pretext to advance major gun-control legislation. And polls show that Americans’ attitudes to gun control remain unchanged.
If there’s a conspiracy afoot here, it is a remarkably ineffective one.
[/quote]
http://amongthetruthers.com/2012/08/auroramilwaukee-gun-control-conspiracy-theories-make-no-sense/
Very few of the people that commit these offences do so after one day being completely normal and sane and the next suddenly snapping and going bat shit crazy. They will have exhibited behaviour over a long period of time that will have been considered alarming. The UK has a massive publicly funded social work programme that would support people before they get too far gone and eventually commit these crimes. It's not a perfect system by any means as proven in several high profile cases where parents have killed their children through physical abuse but it picks up on mentally ill and vulnerable behaviour and at least goes some way to tackling it. It can be a simple report from a neighbour, colleague etc to the authorities. It just doesn't seem that there's anything equivalent of this in the US...Is there any organisation in the US that you can phone if you are concerned about someone's mental well-being knowing that they will be followed up on rather than just phoning the police because of someone's "suspicious" behaviour?
Originally posted by jaden101
Very few of the people that commit these offences do so after one day being completely normal and sane and the next suddenly snapping and going bat shit crazy. They will have exhibited behaviour over a long period of time that will have been considered alarming. The UK has a massive publicly funded social work programme that would support people before they get too far gone and eventually commit these crimes. It's not a perfect system by any means as proven in several high profile cases where parents have killed their children through physical abuse but it picks up on mentally ill and vulnerable behaviour and at least goes some way to tackling it. It can be a simple report from a neighbour, colleague etc to the authorities. It just doesn't seem that there's anything equivalent of this in the US...Is there any organisation in the US that you can phone if you are concerned about someone's mental well-being knowing that they will be followed up on rather than just phoning the police because of someone's "suspicious" behaviour?
oh, I totally agree, I think mental health is definitely a place that needs more funding and can have a great impact on people's lives.
I just mean, in this case, aside from groups like the Southern Poverty Center, who track racists, I don't think there were any clear red flags in this case.
idk, I even mentioned why I didn't think gun control would help in this case. This seems more like one of those situations where it seems like our own basic freedoms expose us to some degree of danger in society. I wish there were a clear answer, tbh.
Originally posted by Oliver North
oh, I totally agree, I think mental health is definitely a place that needs more funding and can have a great impact on people's lives.I just mean, in this case, aside from groups like the Southern Poverty Center, who track racists, I don't think there were any clear red flags in this case.
idk, I even mentioned why I didn't think gun control would help in this case. This seems more like one of those situations where it seems like our own basic freedoms expose us to some degree of danger in society. I wish there were a clear answer, tbh.
Yeah I agree. I think it's a wasted opportunity when partisan politics and media distortion always pulls the debate away from underlying issues and back to gun control and the old "right to bear arms" (Always makes me laugh that the bit about well regulated militia and being necessary for the security of a free state" is completely ignored)
I was also meaning not just specifically this case but going back to Columbine, The Atlanta stock exchange guy, Fort Worth, Virginia Tech, Omaha shopping centre, Isacc Zamora (who was described as "desperately mentally ill"😉, Jared Loughner who shot Sen Gabriel Giffords also showed clear signs of mental illness in the run up to his actions.
The list goes on and on...Some clearly showed signs of mental illness before committing their atrocities...I haven't looked into the details of many of them but I'm sure many more of them did as well.
I just think a better way of picking up on and responding to the signals of deteriorating mental health problems would go far further in preventing these tragedies than the constant and cyclic debate on gun control.
Originally posted by jaden101
Yeah I agree. I think it's a wasted opportunity when partisan politics and media distortion always pulls the debate away from underlying issues and back to gun control and the old "right to bear arms" (Always makes me laugh that the bit about well regulated militia and being necessary for the security of a free state" is completely ignored)I was also meaning not just specifically this case but going back to Columbine, The Atlanta stock exchange guy, Fort Worth, Virginia Tech, Omaha shopping centre, Isacc Zamora (who was described as "desperately mentally ill"😉, Jared Loughner who shot Sen Gabriel Giffords also showed clear signs of mental illness in the run up to his actions.
The list goes on and on...Some clearly showed signs of mental illness before committing their atrocities...I haven't looked into the details of many of them but I'm sure many more of them did as well.
I just think a better way of picking up on and responding to the signals of deteriorating mental health problems would go far further in preventing these tragedies than the constant and cyclic debate on gun control.
I actually agree 100%
though, I do think a little better control would help the American crime rate.
That said, for sure, most of these cases deal with incredibly sick individuals with, often, already diagnosed mental problems.
actually, I'm working on a post on it too, but the Colorado shooter's psychiatrist actually reported him to the police as a threat. allegedly at least. even if it isn't preventative in terms of making crazy people sane, having them talk to mental health professionals gives at least another chance to stop them.
Re: Re: White Supremacist Gunman massacres Sikh Temple
Originally posted by Lord Lucien
Because more white people died in that one. The media doesn't care too much about brown people.
that sounds racist yet true. If white girl dies the media is all over it till they find her killer, if black girl dies the media doesn't really cover the story, they just might mention that she died that day and are looking for suspects.
whats with all these random shooters, you can die anywhere now a days people (gunmen) dont care where u are, they will find you when you have your guard down, before in the olden days, if you entered the wrong neigbourhood you could get shot. Whats with all the anger going around? Where are they getting these ideas from?
Another thing, why dont people ever think on their feet, and use their shoes to throw at the gunmen?? A shoe to the face? Has anyone ever felt a shoe to the face?? IDK what I would have done.