Maul and Oppress vs. Darth Tyranus

Originally posted by Zampanó
This is not a faulty syllogism. The problem with "ABC logic" is that it uses some shared B that has a relation with both A and C to judge the relation between A and C. However, the A/B relation and B/C relation are not always comparable. Most often on this board, that's because B gains experience or power between comparisons.

More specifically, this case is even more not an example of ABC logic in that Dooku's performance against paired opponents has to be judged somehow. By using an even more rigorous test than Maul/Oppress, Ares makes the distance between Dooku's ability and his opponents' even more clear. It's just good rhetoric.

(Whether that is a valid avenue of investigation is open to interpretation; you might object that Dooku spent more time separating the pair (AotC and, to a lesser extent, on the Invisible Hand) than he did fighting them. Merely discounting the syllogism on grounds of format alone, however, will get you laughed out of court.)

I'm guessing you have a lot of experience being laughed out of courtrooms.

I'll take your word for it. 😉

Still two lightsabers should not have given Obi Wan such an advantage that he can suddenly fight them both off at the same time. Using two sabers would actually give him a disadvantage in strength, which is basically already the reason he went down to Savage so quickly. So I'm guessing Obi Wan chops Savage's arm off rather quickly in the fight, by finally being able to take advantage of his [Obi Wan's] superior skill and speed.

And LOL @ Maul and Savage giving Sidious a fight. Just no.

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
Still two lightsabers should not have given Obi Wan such an advantage that he can suddenly fight them both off at the same time. Using two sabers would actually give him a disadvantage in strength, which is basically already the reason he went down to Savage so quickly. So I'm guessing Obi Wan chops Savage's arm off rather quickly in the fight, by finally being able to take advantage of his [Obi Wan's] superior skill and speed.

Supposed to be a stunning fight, so I doubt it'll be quick.

With

Spoiler:
2 Sabers

Spoiler:
what's wrong with Maul

It Is Inconsistent though, not only with Obi-Wan's previous encounters with the duo, but also the way Dooku struggled against Ventress and Savage.
I mean after all he did end up on the floor forced to keep Savage at Bay with FL. Didn't really look like he could have kept it up in a Saber only fight.

Well to be fair, Dooku was seemingly caught by surprise by Savage's strength. I don't think he actually expected that, seeing how their previous spar went.

Oppress does seem to throw most people off... at first.

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
Well to be fair, Dooku was seemingly caught by surprise by Savage's strength. I don't think he actually expected that, seeing how their previous spar went.

Not really sure how he was caught by surprise by his strength considering he was the one who had trained him.

I'd put it more down to having a harder time fending off his incredible strength after dancing around 2 opponents like that. One on One of course Dooku would destroy him.

Also to be fair to Savage, he had zero force training in their first sparring match. And he's a warrior who is better with a Saber Staff really. He's not much of a fencer so of course will have zero chance in a pure fencing match against Dooku who is THE Jedi Fencer.

Edit- Still fact is Dooku does see Savage as a legitimate threat to him. So he sure as hell wouldn't be confident taking on Maul and Savage together.

Originally posted by Q99
Oppress does seem to throw most people off... at first.

This is actually a fair point and could be true. Although when he beat down Obi-Wan in the last episode, it wasn't the first time they fought. But it was the first time Obi-Wan faced him alone.

We'll have to see how well Savage does in other fights he's in this season.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER

Nope he never said "might become".

You're right. As a matter of fact, I don't think he said he was a threat at all.

Originally posted by Jinsoku Takai
You're right. As a matter of fact, I don't think he said he was a threat at all.

Episode: Brothers

Grievous- "You consider HIM a Threat??"

Dooku- "He's a Threat to All Of Us!"

Also Dooku's words to Ventress "Your No Match for me without your monster.." suggest Ventress alone is a joke to him, whilst Ventress with Opress is something he would take much more seriously.

Let alone Maul with Opress.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
Episode: Brothers

Grievous- "You consider HIM a Threat??"

Dooku- "He's a Threat to All Of Us!"

Also Dooku's words to Ventress "Your No Match for me without your monster.." suggest Ventress alone is a joke to him, whilst Ventress with Opress is something he would take much more seriously.

Let alone Maul with Opress.

Ok.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
Episode: Brothers

Grievous- "You consider HIM a Threat??"

Dooku- "He's a Threat to All Of Us!"

Also Dooku's words to Ventress "Your No Match for me without your monster.." suggest Ventress alone is a joke to him, whilst Ventress with Opress is something he would take much more seriously.

Let alone Maul with Opress.

Do you consider Dooku to be an inferior swordsman to Kenobi though? There are some serious inconstancies in that fight, for example, Dooku had trouble with Savage's physical strength, but holds back Kenobi's blows effortlessly in ROTS who apparently holds both Maul and Savage in a saber lock? Wut?

Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
Do you consider Dooku to be an inferior swordsman to Kenobi though?

After Kenobi's latest feat I wouldn't rule out the possibility.

Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
There are some serious inconstancies in that fight, for example, Dooku had trouble with Savage's physical strength, but holds back Kenobi's blows effortlessly in ROTS who apparently holds both Maul and Savage in a saber lock? Wut?

Hey man don't blame me. I don't choreograph the fights!

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
After Kenobi's latest feat I wouldn't rule out the possibility.

Neither would I. It certainly makes Mace's claim that Kenobi was on his level in terms of raw swordsmanship make sense.

Hey man don't blame me. I don't choreograph the fights!

Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
Do you consider Dooku to be an inferior swordsman to Kenobi though? There are some serious inconstancies in that fight, for example, Dooku had trouble with Savage's physical strength, but holds back Kenobi's blows effortlessly in ROTS who apparently holds both Maul and Savage in a saber lock? Wut?

No, but perhaps Obi-Wan's chosen form enables him to better withstand physical strikes than Dooku?

Originally posted by The_Tempest
No, but perhaps Obi-Wan's chosen form enables him to better withstand physical strikes than Dooku?

Saber locks are still heavily dependent on the users strength. And that still does not explain why Anakin and Kenobi's strikes, Anakin; a physical monster with two hands, was casually parried by the Count with one hand.

To borrow a phrase from my beloved Nephthys, "because shut up."

It's either we accept my semi-sensible answer or we accept that Star Wars is inconsistent.

Keno8i could have simply 8een more prepared and thus drew heavily on the Force to help him 8lock Savage and Maul, just as Dooku was prepared and 8locked Anakin and O8i-Wan. The novel supports the latter, may8e.

When Dooku tried against Savage, he must have underestimated his strength and miscalculated.

Ventress and Adi Galia have also 8locked Savage's 8lade as well.

Also plausible.

Obi-Wan, having fought and struggled with both Maul and Savage before, would have known how much more to draw from the Force.

But then why didn't they increase their power, benefiting from similar knowledge....

8ecause shut up.

Why doesn't every Sith put all their power into a single Force Push and o8literate their opponent? We can go down this ra88it hole with much more than just this topic.

I think Darth Tyranus takes this. **** the Clone Wars powerscale.