Gaara>crocodile

Originally posted by AuraAngel
Gaara was beaten by pre-anything worth a damn Naruto.

You do realize gaara was like 12 year's old back then? And had gamabunta's help.

Originally posted by Nephthys
A seal that was broken immediately after being placed.

As we see in the case of Raikage and Whatshisface, the seals can be stopped and torn off before they even take effect. Crocodile can easily do this by just separating the sand with the seal on it from himself, just as Mr No-brows did. Or he can easily phase through the walls as its being placed or as Gaara is forming the pyramid, even if you don't think he can do so after the seal is in place.

And the guy didn't turn into liquid, he just used it to break up the sand. Crocodile can literally turn into sand and escape through the walls or floor themselves.

As I said gaara can control croc himself in his logia form so he cannot move. And crocodile does not have the firepower of mizukage's infinite explosions to do what he did. Gaara's sand control>crocodile's sand control.

Originally posted by Rikudo sennin
You do realize gaara was like 12 year's old back then? And had gamabunta's help.

You do realize Crocodile actually mortally wounded Luffy three times. The first time required he be saved, the second was sheer dumb luck that didn't make much sense, and the third had him also be saved. Take out Robin from the equation and Luffy would have died in the final fight while Croc was knocked out.

Originally posted by Rikudo sennin
As I said gaara can control croc himself in his logia form so he cannot move. And crocodile does not have the firepower of mizukage's infinite explosions to do what he did. Gaara's sand control>crocodile's sand control.

While I agree that Gaara has commanded larger amounts of sand, I do not think that the difference is large enough from Gaara to manhandle Crocodile's actual body. Crocodile was able to create a sandstorm that was seen for miles, split the desert and create a rather large sinkhole, and he did it all casually.

Originally posted by AuraAngel
You do realize Crocodile actually mortally wounded Luffy three times. The first time required he be saved, the second was sheer dumb luck that didn't make much sense, and the third had him also be saved. Take out Robin from the equation and Luffy would have died in the final fight while Croc was knocked out.

Originally posted by Nephthys
While I agree that Gaara has commanded larger amounts of sand, I do not think that the difference is large enough from Gaara to manhandle Crocodile's actual body. Crocodile was able to create a sandstorm that was seen for miles, split the desert and create a rather large sinkhole, and he did it all casually.

Originally posted by Rikudo sennin
Crocodile did not split the entire desert and It wasnt that amazing that he easily cut through a large area of sand with a hardened sand blade. The sinkhole was not really large at all either a 10-15 meter's at best. His sandstorm was a nice feat though but gaara's are better.
Im pretty sure gaara can man handle him and even if he couldn't which is unlikely doing the desert pyramid would do the trick as even if he could pass through the sand it will be dense and large and gaara will have more than enough time to do the sealing tags immobilizing him.

Of course he didn't, but he cut through a large amount of sand, which we can see when he creates the sinkhole since the cut goes even deeper than that. You're right that it is about 15 meters deep, (although I'd say deeper myself) but it is also very wide across, which can be seen by using Luffy and Crocodile as comparisons. And as it is a sinkhole, naturally the affected sand would have to go much, much deeper than the depression we can see since the sand needs to sink into something.

However, as I said, Gaara has moved larger amounts probably, but I do not think that it is enough of a difference that it would enable Gaara to overpower Crocodile's control. And I also don't think he'd just stand there while Gaara was sealing him in that pyramid.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Of course he didn't, but he cut through a large amount of sand, which we can see when he creates the sinkhole since the cut goes even deeper than that. You're right that it is about 15 meters deep, (although I'd say deeper myself) but it is also very wide across, which can be seen by using Luffy and Crocodile as comparisons. And as it is a sinkhole, naturally the affected sand would have to go much, much deeper than the depression we can see since the sand needs to sink into something.

However, as I said, Gaara has moved larger amounts probably, but I do not think that it is enough of a difference that it would enable Gaara to overpower Crocodile's control. And I also don't think he'd just stand there while Gaara was sealing him in that pyramid.

Okay then we are seriously getting off topic with the sinkhole.

The sand that will form the pyramid will smother, crush and hold him till it is completed so even if gaara was not controlling him he would not be able to get out in time. And gaara has other options to get him sealed or in a position where he gets like tricking him with clones and such. Crocodile just can't win.

Agreed. Lets just leave it at it being impossible to say that Gaara can overpower him.

How can you smother someone who is intangible via logia powers? If he tries Crocodile will just turn into sand and float away through the gaps. Plus as I showed the pyramid is very easy to break out of before the seals are placed.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Agreed. Lets just leave it at it being impossible to say that Gaara can overpower him.

How can you smother someone who is intangible via logia powers? If he tries Crocodile will just turn into sand and float away through the gaps. Plus as I showed the pyramid is very easy to break out of before the seals are placed.

Oh man look if you put a rock on a branch then said branch would barely be able to move so if you put extremely dense and large amounts of sand on a small weak amount of sand it could barely move. If it tries to go through the sand gaara can maneuver or tighten the sand and it only takes a few seconds to put the sealing tags. He would meet the same fate as the mizukage who couldn't seep through and destroy the sand in time as there was too much and so little time.

And on top of it all gaara who has more sand control feat would just man handle crocodile. Oh and I never agreed that gaara couldn't I was running scenarios with you.

And gaara's pyramid was not "easily broken" the mizukage used his STRONGEST JUTSU to break free which also had the power to plow through stone pillars and melt gold. Crocodile has no firepower like that. In fact the closest he does have is a twister that starts of weak and gets stronger over time. He won't have the luxury of time in a situation where every second counts.

Gaara>Crocodile!

Originally posted by Rikudo sennin
Oh man look if you put a rock on a branch then said branch would barely be able to move so if you put extremely dense and large amounts of sand on a small weak amount of sand it could barely move.

Or it would just move downwards since there's nothing suggesting Crocodile couldn't just open a pathway down there or become intangible and seep through the sand.

Originally posted by Rikudo sennin
If it tries to go through the sand gaara can maneuver or tighten the sand

Oh ok.

I guess that completely stops the possibility then. Its not as if Crocodile can also maneuver out of the way. Or hell, just slash his way through.

Originally posted by Rikudo sennin
And on top of it all gaara who has more sand control feat would just man handle crocodile. Oh and I never agreed that gaara couldn't I was running scenarios with you.

Cool story. Then I guess we should get back to discussing that sinkhole then, shouldn't we?

Originally posted by Rikudo sennin
And gaara's pyramid was not "easily broken" the mizukage used his STRONGEST JUTSU to break free which also had the power to plow through stone pillars and melt gold. Crocodile has no firepower like that. In fact the closest he does have is a twister that starts of weak and gets stronger over time. He won't have the luxury of time in a situation where every second counts.

Gaara>Crocodile!

Well he also has a sand blade that cut a 30 meter gouge in the desert. But I was more referring to the fact that he could easily tear up or remove the seals before they activate.

One point though, Gaara is limited in how much chakra he has. He can't keep throwing out attacks all he wants. Crocodile could simply outlast him.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Or it would just move downwards since there's nothing suggesting Crocodile couldn't just open a pathway down there or become intangible and seep through the sand.

Oh ok.

I guess that completely stops the possibility then. Its not as if Crocodile can also maneuver out of the way. Or hell, just slash his way through.

Cool story. Then I guess we should get back to discussing that sinkhole then, shouldn't we?

Well he also has a sand blade that cut a 30 meter gouge in the desert. But I was more referring to the fact that he could easily tear up or remove the seals before they activate.

One point though, Gaara is limited in how much chakra he has. He can't keep throwing out attacks all he wants. Crocodile could simply outlast him.

Gaara can easily harden the sand so that he could not get through or just control crocodile himself. And the sand will attack him from all angles as there will probably be sand beneath him as well im pretty sure gaara will be able to handle that.

When sand is coming in all directions where is crocodile gonna go? And gaara's sand will easily take anything that crocodile can dish out in such a confined space and in so little time.

It is just a fact gaara has greater control and could probably control crocodile.

Again im not impressed with crocodile being able to cut sand with sand and yes im aware his sand blades also cut through rock but it doesnt matter as gaara's sand has taken MUCH WORSE than anything crocodile can dish out. And how is he gonna tear the seals off which are on the surface of the pyramid when he is struggling to get out of it in the first place?

Gaara would not have to worry that much as the fight won't last that long anyway. And gaara has shown impressive feats in his ability to keep fighting as shown perfectly in this war.

How in hell is hardened sand any different than regular sand for Croc? Sand is sand and he can become and control sand, he just swifts through it casually.

Originally posted by Bentley
How in hell is hardened sand any different than regular sand for Croc? Sand is sand and he can become and control sand, he just swifts through it casually.

Gaara would not let that happen he will simply just control him. Even if he could fuse with the sand he will be fusing with sand under gaara's control and he would be in more trouble. And he would not slip out before the tags are put. croc loses.

Originally posted by Rikudo sennin
You do not need to tell me I read all three of their fights. Crocodile has the intangibility advantage and the fact that he could dehydrate luffy's extended limbs. There was nothing stand out amazing crocodile did in those fights especially in comparison to even "rescue the kazekage arc" gaara. There was no point in you bringing it up it doesnt change the fact gaara would still beat crocodile.

There is no point bringing up the fact that he lost to pre-G2 Luffy. And lol, intangibility and dehydrating someone isn't impressive.

And no, Crocodile would not lose to Gaara. On top of being most certainly faster, Crocodile's moves are still more broken. What will Gaara do to him? Control him? That will only work when he is in Sand mode and he can immediately turn back into human. If he's in Sand Mode, all Gaara can try to do it control him which can be countered by turning human. If Croc is in human mode, Gaara can try to attack him which won't work because he can become sand. The ONLY way for Gaara to win is by sealing him, which I don't think would work on the much faster Crocodile. Crocodile on the other hand has two ways of winning, in each hand. Either use his hand to suck all the moisture out of Gaara or his hook to poison him.

Originally posted by Rikudo sennin
Gaara can easily harden the sand so that he could not get through

And Crocodile can loosen it enough to get through, or turn it into a sinkhole.

Originally posted by Rikudo sennin
And the sand will attack him from all angles as there will probably be sand beneath him as well im pretty sure gaara will be able to handle that.

Wheres the proof that Gaara hardens the sand beneath the pyramid as well?

Originally posted by Rikudo sennin
When sand is coming in all directions where is crocodile gonna go? And gaara's sand will easily take anything that crocodile can dish out in such a confined space and in so little time.

It isn't all directions.

Originally posted by Rikudo sennin
It is just a fact gaara has greater control and could probably control crocodile.

No it isn't a fact. You have failed to prove that its that large a difference.

Originally posted by Rikudo sennin
Again im not impressed with crocodile being able to cut sand with sand and yes im aware his sand blades also cut through rock but it doesnt matter as gaara's sand has taken MUCH WORSE than anything crocodile can dish out.

A large explosion is not necessarily a powerful explosion. Simply because it covers a large amount of space doesn't mean that it is particularly damaging. In fact as the energy is so spread out, this is likely not the case.

Originally posted by Rikudo sennin
And how is he gonna tear the seals off which are on the surface of the pyramid when he is struggling to get out of it in the first place?

Just like Raikage or No-brows did, either tear up the paper physically, or remove the seals. He could pierce the paper with sand spikes or lift the sand the seal is on away from the pyramid.

Originally posted by Rikudo sennin
Gaara would not have to worry that much as the fight won't last that long anyway. And gaara has shown impressive feats in his ability to keep fighting as shown perfectly in this war.

I'm just pointing out that Gaara is limited by his physical body, while Crocodile is not.

Originally posted by AuraAngel
There is no point bringing up the fact that he lost to pre-G2 Luffy. And lol, intangibility and dehydrating someone isn't impressive.

And no, Crocodile would not lose to Gaara. On top of being most certainly faster, Crocodile's moves are still more broken. What will Gaara do to him? Control him? That will only work when he is in Sand mode and he can immediately turn back into human. If he's in Sand Mode, all Gaara can try to do it control him which can be countered by turning human. If Croc is in human mode, Gaara can try to attack him which won't work because he can become sand. The ONLY way for Gaara to win is by sealing him, which I don't think would work on the much faster Crocodile. Crocodile on the other hand has two ways of winning, in each hand. Either use his hand to suck all the moisture out of Gaara or his hook to poison him.

What?!
WHEN gaara starts controlling him and he turns back into a human he will just get sand raped by all the sand attacks coming at him you know all the sand that will be dogy piling him and he is useless without his fruit so he would get killed fast. If he switches back into sand the gaara sand will hold him down and seal him and if he goes human he will still be covered in sand either way.
And crocodile is not relatively fast at all as he only dissipated himself and floated to his enemy. Gaara can sense and react. Not that he has to with his automatic defense anyway.
http://www.narutobase.net/manga/Naruto/548/10
Crocodile will iterally have to fight through gaara's mom LOL.
And what stops gaara from fusing his sand with crocodile's body giving him another way or controlling him?

Originally posted by Nephthys
And Crocodile can loosen it enough to get through, or turn it into a sinkhole.

Wheres the proof that Gaara hardens the sand beneath the pyramid as well?

It isn't all directions.

No it isn't a fact. You have failed to prove that its that large a difference.

A large explosion is not necessarily a powerful explosion. Simply because it covers a large amount of space doesn't mean that it is particularly damaging. In fact as the energy is so spread out, this is likely not the case.

Just like Raikage or No-brows did, either tear up the paper physically, or remove the seals. He could pierce the paper with sand spikes or lift the sand the seal is on away from the pyramid.

I'm just pointing out that Gaara is limited by his physical body, while Crocodile is not.

Crocodile will not loosen it as gaara control over the sand will prevent that.

The pyramid obviously has a base that is made of sand.

No I have proved gaara has better feats and has done more versatile things with his sand. Crocodile hasn't shown anything on his level.

http://www.narutobase.net/manga/Naruto/588/5
It took 5 susanoo blades to cut through gaara's automatic defense which as you can see was only a small amount of sand. It can easily take any of crocodile's sand blades.
And deidara and gaara were both gaara were confident that deidara's c3 would destroy all of sunagakure which is fairly large
http://www.narutobase.net/manga/Naruto/248/2

He is gonna lift the sand on the surface of the pyramid when he is struggling to get out from the INSIDE and doesn't even no the seals are being placed?

Gaara can counter anything crocodile has got.

Originally posted by Rikudo sennin
Gaara would not let that happen he will simply just control him. Even if he could fuse with the sand he will be fusing with sand under gaara's control and he would be in more trouble. And he would not slip out before the tags are put. croc loses.

So if Gaara cannot beat Croc's control he loses right?

General question: can Crocodile or any other logia shift their consiouness through the elements they control to achieve virtual teleportation?

Originally posted by Rikudo sennin
What?!
WHEN gaara starts controlling him and he turns back into a human he will just get sand raped by all the sand attacks coming at him you know all the sand that will be dogy piling him and he is useless without his fruit so he would get killed fast. If he switches back into sand the gaara sand will hold him down and seal him and if he goes human he will still be covered in sand either way.
And crocodile is not relatively fast at all as he only dissipated himself and floated to his enemy. Gaara can sense and react. Not that he has to with his automatic defense anyway.
http://www.narutobase.net/manga/Naruto/548/10
Crocodile will iterally have to fight through gaara's mom LOL.
And what stops gaara from fusing his sand with crocodile's body giving him another way or controlling him?

Calm down bro. They aren't real.
No, you seem to not understand how Crocodiles powers work. Upon getting touched by anything, he will turn into sand(cept water of course). It's not a conscious decision. If he turns into sand, then yeah I imagine Gaara eventually getting the smart idea of trying to control him. This can't work when Crocodile merely has to become tangible again. And lol, Gaara's automatic defense pales next to Crocodile's.

Of course, you're ignoring one thing: Crocodile is without question smarter than Gaara. He'll figure out a way to win far sooner than Gaara would.

Originally posted by AuraAngel
Calm down bro. They aren't real.
No, you seem to not understand how Crocodiles powers work. Upon getting touched by anything, he will turn into sand(cept water of course). It's not a conscious decision. If he turns into sand, then yeah I imagine Gaara eventually getting the smart idea of trying to control him. This can't work when Crocodile merely has to become tangible again. And lol, Gaara's automatic defense pales next to Crocodile's.

Of course, you're ignoring one thing: Crocodile is without question smarter than Gaara. He'll figure out a way to win far sooner than Gaara would.

HELLO! If I put some lettuce inbetween to pieces of huge bread then it will be unable to move. Now if gaara captures crocodile in his sand form he will just be a pile of sand encased inside all of gaara's and therefore cannot move! And if he turns human then he gets ****ed up even more so. What point does he have of constantly changing his form when regardless he has sand coming at him in every direction relentlessly in a attempt to capture and immobilize him. Turning into a human will just get him killed.

Crocodile ran a secret organization and planned a coup d'etat.
So?
Gaara is running one of the FIVE GREAT shinobi villages!
He also helped in the strategic work of the ALLIED SHINOBI FORCES!
He is COMMANDING one of the divisions of the allied shinobi forces
And he used his brain to beat the second mizukage
Gaara is smart to!

Crocodile has no way of penetrating his defense!
Gaara can control him!
Gaara can seal him!
Crocodile can't even get close enough to touch him!

Gaara wins!

Haha, ok you are clearly something of a fanboy, so don't expect an answer from me. Just to let you know.

Originally posted by Bentley
So if Gaara cannot beat Croc's control he loses right?

General question: can Crocodile or any other logia shift their consiouness through the elements they control to achieve virtual teleportation?

No gaara has many options as unlike crocodile he has more versatile abilities with sand. Though he won't have to go that far as gaara can and will control him.

Im not sure I have only read up to the beggining of the alabasta arc. Though if they could I doubt it would be instant and if he fuses with gaara sand then gaara can for sure control him.