DCNU Superman vs AvX Thor

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
"Might" doesn't fill me with much confidence.

I'm still failing to see how Thor getting beat up by guys portrayed as being more powerful than Thor consistently means Superman wins...especially when Thor's prior history and status as a high herald/top dog still count.

That would be like a new villain showing up and beating up Superman consistently for the arc he's starring and then arguing because he beat up Superman, Superman must be weakened now. It's obvious that the intent is that new villain is >= Superman not that Superman got depowered.

@Black

Speed isn't the issue here, its how both fight imo.

Originally posted by Starscream M
no

Then what was the point in saying "if colossus is able to fell thor, then I'd give it to superman"?

Originally posted by carver9
I never said the 5 isnt greater than High Herald level...they are. Why would I vote for Namor over Prime if I didn't think he was over Herald levels but you are clearly missing the point. It's not WHO is beating Thor, its HOW he is getting defeated.

You're either not getting this on purpose or incapable of.

HOW they're beating him is easy: they''re portrayed as being more powerful than him, whether in the form of energy projection or physical might amped by the Phoenix.

This really isn't hard. How does Thor getting beat up multiple times by foes clearly shown to be operating above his level consistently mean he's not at high herald levels? Makes no sense, and even less sense to argue that Superman beats him because of it.

Originally posted by Silent Master
Then what was the point in saying "if colossus is able to fell thor, then I'd give it to superman"?

Originally posted by Starscream M
this thread is specifically about AvX thor, so his historical standing and feats don't apply

Then how do you determine how strong the Phoenix Force and the people it amps are then? Especially when they're being used as evidence to suggest Thor loses?

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
You're either not getting this on purpose or incapable of.

HOW they're beating him is easy: they''re portrayed as being more powerful than him, whether in the form of energy projection or physical might amped by the Phoenix.

This really isn't hard. How does Thor getting beat up multiple times by foes clearly shown to be operating above his level consistently mean he's not at high herald levels? Makes no sense, and even less sense to argue that Superman beats him because of it.

Originally posted by Starscream M
it was a statement in error...now bug off, you annoying little thorbag!

At least you finally acknowledge that it was stupid comment.

Originally posted by Starscream M
what have they done (other than beat thor) that puts them clearly above thor's level?

Easily snap Rulk's arm, beat up Gladiator while holding back, take on entire teams of Avengers which include the likes of Thor and Rulk, etc.

That's why limiting a character to an specific arc and barring other feats is a problem because when a threat, specifically a new one, arrives and is shown to be > than Character X, it's clear the intent is to show how this character is more powerful than X, and operating at a level greater than the one of the character they've beaten up. It's also why arguing AvX has made Thor weaker is a horrible leap of logic when the opposite is much more obvious and makes more sense:

They're just more powerful than he is. And Thor has always been high herald level and nothing AvX did changes that.

I really don't see what's hard about seeing that.

Originally posted by carver9
@Black

Speed isn't the issue here, its how both fight imo.

Considering Supermans speed was arguably below the flash but not by a huge margin in Justice League. Since this is only AvX Thors feats outside of this arc doesn't count. Speed could be a big advantage here unless he has shown some kind of speed feats.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
You're either not getting this on purpose or incapable of.

HOW they're beating him is easy: they''re portrayed as being more powerful than him, whether in the form of energy projection or physical might amped by the Phoenix.

This really isn't hard. How does Thor getting beat up multiple times by foes clearly shown to be operating above his level consistently mean he's not at high herald levels? Makes no sense, and even less sense to argue that Superman beats him because of it.

Emma shoots diamonds through his body and takes him out with a couple of well placed blows.

Namor blasts him and takes him out whereas the same Namor states he is going to kill Black Panther and blasts him but BP is still awake.

Rulk and the other Avengers are awake from a full blast from one of the five but Thor is koed.

Metas are withstanding things that are dropping Thor.

Originally posted by BlackZero30x
Considering Supermans speed was arguably below the flash but not by a huge margin in Justice League. Since this is only AvX Thors feats outside of this arc doesn't count. Speed could be a big advantage here unless he has shown some kind of speed feats.

Apparently, Thor managed to punch out a mutant with localized time manipulation which makes the mutant in question appear to have super speed of sorts.

Outside of that, I can't think of any explicit showings of speed other than Thor flying super fast and managing to hit Mar-Vell after Mar-Vell claimed he could see and perceive all of Thor's actions before they happened due to his amped Cosmic Awareness.

Originally posted by BlackZero30x
Considering Supermans speed was arguably below the flash but not by a huge margin in Justice League. Since this is only AvX Thors feats outside of this arc doesn't count. Speed could be a big advantage here unless he has shown some kind of speed feats.

..
Uuuuummm...Flash was blitzing the hell out of Supes. Supes got one lick on a Flash that stopped moving and you call them "near".? No, just no. Looking at on panel fts, Thor will hit Supes just like others have.

Originally posted by carver9
Emma shoots diamonds through his body and takes him out with a couple of well placed blows.

Namor blasts him and takes him out whereas the same Namor states he is going to kill Black Panther and blasts him but BP is still awake.

Rulk and the other Avengers are awake from a full blast from one of the five but Thor is koed.

Metas are withstanding things that are dropping Thor.

If a meta level character endures something that KO's a high herald, that's the very definition of PIS. facepalm

That would be like citing Batman soloing the JLA and arguing the League has been nerfed because Batman kicked their ass.

And this arc has Thor endure the Force incarnate's fire and stay conscious.

Originally posted by carver9
Emma shoots diamonds through his body and takes him out with a couple of well placed blows.

Namor blasts him and takes him out whereas the same Namor states he is going to kill Black Panther and blasts him but BP is still awake.

Rulk and the other Avengers are awake from a full blast from one of the five but Thor is koed.

Metas are withstanding things that are dropping Thor.

So the blasts that Phoenix Namor hits Thor with to knock him out are the same ones he's hitting Cap and Black Panther with. What an astounding deduction.

In the meantime, Thor fought the full Phoenixforce three times, stalling and crippling it in two of those fights. An entity that's been one-shotting planets left and right (and a herald).

AvX Thor wins.

Originally posted by ODG
After Thor completely shattered her Phoenix-empowered diamond form to tiny pieces. Something a Sinisterized Tiamut didn't even do to normal diamond form Emma Frost.

So the blasts that Phoenix Namor hits Thor with to knock him out are the same ones he's hitting Cap and Black Panther with. What an astounding deduction.

In the meantime, Thor fought the full Phoenixforce three times, stalling and crippling it in two of those fights. An entity that's been one-shotting planets and heralds left and right.

AvX Thor wins.

👆

I mean, yes, this event has had Thor losing a lot and is far from well written, but it's clear - painfully so - that the PF and its hosts are portrayed as being > Thor. How that in turn means Thor is weak is beyond me, to say nothing of using these examples as evidence as to why Superman would win.

Originally posted by ODG
After Thor completely shattered her Phoenix-empowered diamond form to tiny pieces. Something a Sinisterized Tiamut didn't even do to normal diamond form Emma Frost.

So the blasts that Phoenix Namor hits Thor with to knock him out are the same ones he's hitting Cap and Black Panther with. What an astounding deduction.

In the meantime, Thor fought the full Phoenixforce three times, stalling and crippling it in two of those fights. An entity that's been one-shotting planets left and
right (and a herald).

AvX Thor wins.

Hhhhhmmmm...good points.

Originally posted by ODG

In the meantime, Thor fought the full Phoenixforce three times, stalling and crippling it in two of those fights. An entity that's been one-shotting planets left and right (and a herald).

AvX Thor wins.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Apparently, Thor managed to punch out a mutant with localized time manipulation which makes the mutant in question appear to have super speed of sorts.

Outside of that, I can't think of any explicit showings of speed other than Thor flying super fast and managing to hit Mar-Vell after Mar-Vell claimed he could see and perceive all of Thor's actions before they happened due to his amped Cosmic Awareness.

thats a pretty good feat imo. Though I can't give an entirely explicit answer to this other then Thor may have some good durability feats as you previously mentioned but Superman has a lot more with all of his different appearances in the New 52. I would say that getting hit by the OE and living is a pretty decent showing also.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
👆

I mean, yes, this event has had Thor losing a lot and is far from well written, but it's clear - painfully so - that the PF and its hosts are portrayed as being > Thor. How that in turn means Thor is weak is beyond me, to say nothing of using these examples as evidence as to why Superman would win.