Originally posted by Mindset
There are planets smaller than Earth.How does Kitty being able to phase it change anything?
Great feat for her.
Because Kitty Pryde is traditionally not regarded as particularly powerful and the amount of mass she has been able to phase in the past has always been limited.
Despite that she was able to phase the entire bullet. It was a hollow shell of alien metal. Lets not make assumptions about how heavy it was.
Originally posted by JakeTheBank
In terms of blunt force trauma and pain threshold, Loki is inferior to Thor and Hercules. However, given his nature as a shape shifter, he displays a far greater control over his molecules and physical form than either of them. Sure, you could knock out Loki easier than you could Thor/Herc. But considering Loki has had his head cut off and reattached it with no qualms, permanently killing him is going to be extremely difficult.
This is all speculation. Loki is a shapeshifter through magic. His malleability comes through the invoking of said magic ability it is not inherent to his physicality. His inherent physical form is not more durable than Thors, his physical might is a class 30, less than Rogues.
Magneto incinerated Rax of the Neo a being stronger and more durable than Classic Rogue (class 50)
Originally posted by Mindset
She wasn't until she did it.It was the size of a planet and flying away from Earth at lightspeed.
Was "heavy" as shit.
OR the hollow structure just wasnt as heavy as you think 😬
Regardless its clear Magneto isnt as powerful as a member of the P5.
Magneto wields enough raw power to casually incinerate a being physically stronger than Classic Rogue or Loki.
The incineration of Loki is no great feat.
Originally posted by GalacticStorm
OR the hollow structure just wasnt as heavy as you think 😬Regardless its clear Magneto isnt as powerful as a member of the P5.
Magneto wields enough raw power to casually incinerate a being physically stronger than Classic Rogue or Loki.
The incineration of Loki is no great feat.
Think about it.
Maybe not, but it's a better feat than the Namor one.
Originally posted by GalacticStorm
This is all speculation. Loki is a shapeshifter through magic. His malleability comes through the invoking of said magic ability it is not inherent to his physicality. His inherent physical form is not more durable than Thors, his physical might is a class 30, less than Rogues.Magneto incinerated Rax of the Neo a being stronger and more durable than Classic Rogue (class 50)
There's no speculation about it. Whether the source of his malleability is natural or comes through magic, it doesn't matter in the end. The source of how he's durable is less important than the fact that he is. He certainly doesn't need to make lengthy incantations or anything; most of his magic is simply willed into being by thinking.
Even ignoring that, Loki's durable enough to take blows from the Destroyer Armor and Mjolnir without being KO'd, so even his physical blunt force durability is pretty high. Handbook ratings mean little to me, especially when on panel feats trump the often inaccurate descriptions given by them.
Originally posted by GalacticStorm
OR the hollow structure just wasnt as heavy as you think 😬Regardless its clear Magneto isnt as powerful as a member of the P5.
Magneto wields enough raw power to casually incinerate a being physically stronger than Classic Rogue or Loki.
The incineration of Loki is no great feat.
Magneto can't incinerate Loki.
Originally posted by JakeTheBank
There's no speculation about it. Whether the source of his malleability is natural or comes through magic, it doesn't matter in the end. The source of how he's durable is less important than the fact that he is. He certainly doesn't need to make lengthy incantations or anything; most of his magic is simply willed into being by thinking.Even ignoring that, Loki's durable enough to take blows from the Destroyer Armor and Mjolnir without being KO'd, so even his physical blunt force durability is pretty high. Handbook ratings mean little to me, especially when on panel feats trump the often inaccurate descriptions given by them.
1)It is a magical ability that has to be willed.
2) it is not his inherent physical durability
3) Being able to shapeshift doesnt automatically make for greater durability. Hi Mystique 😬 Please show where its stated or explicitly demonstrated
At the end of the day, Loki is physically a class 30. He is no physical powerhouse, which is why he relies more on his mystical abilities. Classic Rogue is physically stronger, Rax of the Neo more so than Rogue.
Magneto casually incinerated Rax. CASUALLY. With the utmost exertion i see no reason why he couldnt do the same to a non mystically amped Loki. 🙂
Originally posted by GalacticStormExactly, it was metal, and it was huge. Even if it was an inch thick, the thing would have weighed over billions of tons.
It was a hollow shell of alien metal that Kitty Pryde was able to effect in its entirety.I'll have to go back and look at some old x-men issues because i dont remember Asteroid M being that big.
As it stands Magneto a being considerably weaker than a fifth of the PF can casually incinerate a being stronger and more durable than classic Rogue. Casually.
Incinerating Lokis physical form is not that impressive, espcially when it all seemed part of Lokis plan.
It was a sizable fortress to my recollection.
Well, let's go ahead and see this then. Plus, Mags is written down in the AVX series, so there's that as well.
Also, Rogue is no Loki. Hell, Loki is one of the few characters in comics to no sell Spider-Man. He's no average class 100 durability.
But it is. Loki's been hit by Surtur and hasn't been incinerated. Not saying that makes Void more powerful than Surtur, but it makes his feat pretty impressive.
And that's what this is, Void is as equally as impressive if not more so than Gaymor. You're better off with the implied power angle.
EDIT: lol at Magneto incinerating Loki.
Originally posted by GalacticStorm
1)It is a magical ability that has to be willed.2) it is not his inherent physical durability
3) Being able to shapeshift doesnt automatically make for greater durability. Hi Mystique 😬 Please show where its stated or explicitly demonstrated
At the end of the day, Loki is physically a class 30. He is no physical powerhouse, which is why he relies more on his mystical abilities. Classic Rogue is physically stronger, Rax of the Neo more so than Rogue.
Magneto casually incinerated Rax. CASUALLY. With the utmost exertion i see no reason why he couldnt do the same to a non mystically amped Loki. 🙂
1.) Which is a part of his powerset and unless Loki wants to die or be demolecularized is a moot point. How it does it is irrelevant to the fact that he does it.
2.) Didn't say that. His inherent physical durability is enough to engage in prolonged battles against Thor. When Loki actually wants to fight, he's extremely formidable.
3.) Loki is a shapeshifter who's default durability is already exceptionally high (higher than his actual strength for sure). Combined, he's notoriously hard to put down and kill. The guy no sold a decapitation for Christ's sake.
"Physically class 30" means next to nothing in terms of feats. Citing a handbook over actual and consistent on panel feats is the only way you can come to the conclusion that Loki is some kind of weak feeb. Considering the crap Loki's endured, I don't see how Erik is casually vaporizing Loki. Also, suggesting non mystically amped Loki is akin to suggesting a Magneto who can't call upon electromagnetic manipulation. It's a part of his power set.
Originally posted by Branlor Swift
EDIT: lol at Magneto incinerating Loki.
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Originally posted by Branlor Swift
What does mystically enhanced mean anyway when Loki is never being seen as amped?
No idea. Unless he's referring to how Void ripped apart Loki who had the Norn Stones....which only further puts over how powerful both Loki and Void were in Siege.
But yeah, the idea Magneto is ripping apart Loki is laughable.
Originally posted by JakeTheBank
1.) Which is a part of his powerset and unless Loki wants to die or be demolecularized is a moot point. How it does it is irrelevant to the fact that he does it.2.) Didn't say that. His inherent physical durability is enough to engage in prolonged battles against Thor. When Loki actually wants to fight, he's extremely formidable.
3.) Loki is a shapeshifter who's default durability is already exceptionally high (higher than his actual strength for sure). Combined, he's notoriously hard to put down and kill. The guy no sold a decapitation for Christ's sake.
"Physically class 30" means next to nothing in terms of feats. Citing a handbook over actual and consistent on panel feats is the only way you can come to the conclusion that Loki is some kind of weak feeb. Considering the crap Loki's endured, I don't see how Erik is casually vaporizing Loki. Also, suggesting non mystically amped Loki is akin to suggesting a Magneto who can't call upon electromagnetic manipulation. It's a part of his power set.
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All this comes down to is being a shapeshifter does not automatically make you more durable. Again let me bring Mystique to your attention.
Furthermore even if it did (which it does not) its an ability he has to invoke mystically.
There is no evidence Loki did so before he got incinerated.
So all this talk of enhanced durability due to shapeshifting is moot 😬
Originally posted by GalacticStorm
All this comes down to is being a shapeshifter does not automatically make you more durable. Again let me bring Mystique to your attention.Furthermore even if it did (which it does not) its an ability he has to invoke mystically.
There is no evidence Loki did so before he got incinerated.
So all this talk of enhanced durability due to shapeshifting is moot 😬
Not really?
Loki is already, by default, pretty durable. One just has to look at his feats against people like Thor and Bill or even more powerful entities such as Surtur or the Destroyer Armor. Bringing up Mystique is a non point considering Loki's shape shifting is vastly superior to her own and already has incredible durability on top of that.
Loki is a mystical being who happens to be a god and elite mage, so a vast majority of his powers have to be invoked mystically. But it doesn't matter as its fair game as it's a part of his powerset. Just like Magneto has to invoke his manipulation of electromagnetic energy to perform, well, virtually all of his powers.
Again, this is the point being made:
-Loki, in spite of being physically inferior to most high heralds in terms of strength and durability, is still incredibly durable physically.
-Due to Loki's shapeshifting, which absolutely trounces Mystique's, Loki has a greater control of his body and molecules and makes him notoriously hard to kill.
Magneto isn't vaporizing Loki, sorry. Let alone Loki from Siege.
Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Not really?Loki is already, by default, pretty durable. One just has to look at his feats against people like Thor and Bill or even more powerful entities such as Surtur or the Destroyer Armor. Bringing up Mystique is a non point considering Loki's shape shifting is vastly superior to her own and already has incredible durability on top of that.
Loki is a mystical being who happens to be a god and elite mage, so a vast majority of his powers have to be invoked mystically. But it doesn't matter as its fair game as it's a part of his powerset. Just like Magneto has to invoke his manipulation of electromagnetic energy to perform, well, virtually all of his powers.
Again, this is the point being made:
-Loki, in spite of being physically inferior to most high heralds in terms of strength and durability, is still incredibly durable physically.
-Due to Loki's shapeshifting, which absolutely trounces Mystique's, Loki has a greater control of his body and molecules and makes him notoriously hard to kill.
Magneto isn't vaporizing Loki, sorry. Let alone Loki from Siege.
How durable Loki is prior to invoking his shapeshifting is a moot point. You have yet to prove that him invoking his shape shifting ability enhances his base durability. Furthermore Mystique as a shape shifter doesnt have beyond human durability. Why must you assume Lokis ability makes him enhanced? Where is the point stated on panel? Seems like an assumption youve made. Not good enough 😬
Lokis shape shifting once again is an ability he has to invoke. So even if we were to say it increases his durability (which you have no proof of) then there is no evidence whatsoever (not artistically or by statement in the comic)to suggest he had invoked said ability prior to getting cremated.
With that in mind talking about how durable you think his shapeshifting makes Loki and then trying to hype Voidtrys feat of destroying Loki when u cant prove it makes him more durable or that the ability was even on at that point in the comic make your point moot 😬
Originally posted by GalacticStorm
How durable Loki is prior to invoking his shapeshifting is a moot point. You have yet to prove that him invoking his shape shifting ability enhances his base durability. Furthermore Mystique as a shape shifter doesnt have beyond human durability. Why must you assume Lokis ability makes him enhanced? Where is the point stated on panel? Seems like an assumption youve made. Not good enough 😬Lokis shape shifting once again is an ability he has to invoke. So even if we were to say it increases his durability (which you have no proof of) then there is no evidence whatsoever (not artistically or by statement in the comic)to suggest he had invoked said ability prior to getting cremated.
With that in mind talking about how durable you think his shapeshifting makes Loki and then trying to hype Voidtrys feat of destroying Loki when u cant prove it makes him more durable or that the ability was even on at that point in the comic make your point moot 😬
Why you keep dragging Mystique into this when Loki's shapeshifting is far more potent than her and he's across the board way more powerful is beyond me. Completely different scales. And ultimately irrelevant. And yeah, even Mystique has beyond human capabilties physically due to her shape shifting...part of the reason why she has enhanced longevity and a healing factor. 😬 But when Mystique can take her decapitated head and place it on her shoulders and reattach it, maybe she'll be relevant to the conversation.
Loki was amped by Norn Stones when he got destroyed by the Void, which means Magneto can do the same...how? Citing handbook statistics and how Rogue is tougher than Loki - not true, by the way - doesn't make sense, either.
Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Loki, on the average isn't > Odin, Thor, or Hercules in durability.But he is, on the average, incredibly durable, more so than what handbooks would have you believe with their "stats".
True. And some of his higher feats are insane.
Like letting Balder lop his head off just to mess with him, than casually setting it back in place once he leaves.