Originally posted by quanchi112Then watch Link use it to toss around hundreds of tons of ice, or overpower Fyrus, or lift and throw Dangoro, or any of the other crazy bullshit he does in that game which no real human could ever do.
He is strong enough for the task at hand but isn't some superhuman I can toss mountains character the fanboys think he is. Watch how he picks up the ball and chain. Watch how the enemy wields it with one arm. Shows Link is weak by comparison.
Strongest dragon in-verse feeds on cattle < Volvalgia feeds on powerful Gorons.
Its flames barely scorch rocks < lava flames.
Only dragon strong enough to break out of chains, knocked out by crashing through a wall < only temporarily stunned from hits with the Megaton Hammer.
Treated as tests to teen wizards < a threat that can erupt a volcano.
HP Dragons =/= LoZ Dragons
Originally posted by ScreamPasteI never said a real human could do so. I am just making the point quite clear he's nothing special in direct comparison to his foes/peers in the game. 🙂
Then watch Link use it to toss around hundreds of tons of ice, or overpower Fyrus, or lift and throw Dangoro, or any of the other crazy bullshit he does in that game which [b]no real human could ever do. [/B]
Originally posted by BloodRainGorons aren't that spectacular by any means.
Strongest dragon in-verse feeds on cattle < Volvalgia feeds on powerful Gorons.Its flames barely scorch rocks < lava flames.
Only dragon strong enough to break out of chains, knocked out by crashing through a wall < only temporarily stunned from hits with the Megaton Hammer.
Treated as tests to teen wizards < a threat that can erupt a volcano.
HP Dragons =/= LoZ Dragons
One dragon can dominate the land of Hyrule due to Hyrule being a land of sissies and faeries(not just the kind who fly around either). Potterverse keeps them as pets and uses them in competitions. There are many dragons. Many dragons>>>>1 Hylian Dragon.
The dragon was killed by one hero and yet it can dominate the entire world. Laughable. That goes to show you how badass these wizards are.
Many dragons>>>1 dragon who can dominate Hyrule.
Originally posted by quanchi112His foes and peers are superhuman. So Hyrule is filled with superhumans, Quan? And this makes Link less impressive just because there are other superhumans around?
I never said a real human could do so. I am just making the point quite clear he's nothing special in direct comparison to his foes/peers in the game. 🙂
Originally posted by quanchi112Gorons are quite powerful, actually. They tank volcanic explosions, chew on diamonds and rubies as their main source of food, and can send hundreds of tons flying with punches, as well as smash solid stone.
Gorons aren't that spectacular by any means.One dragon can dominate the land of Hyrule due to Hyrule being a land of sissies and faeries(not just the kind who fly around either). Potterverse keeps them as pets and uses them in competitions. There are many dragons. Many dragons>>>>1 Hylian Dragon.
The dragon was killed by one hero and yet it can dominate the entire world. Laughable. That goes to show you how badass these wizards are.
Many dragons>>>1 dragon who can dominate Hyrule.
Volvagia being able to terrify them speaks volumes. He was also the third guardian of the OoT era, making him regional level in power, if something like that got out into the world and Link didn't stop it, yes, it could cause quite a lot of desolation.
Dragons in Harry Potter are not as physically imposing as Gorons, or even the King Dodongo, let alone Volvagia.
Originally posted by ScreamPasteMost characters in fiction are superhuman. They do things normal people couldn't do on the regular. This doesn't separate Hyrule from anyone fiction wise. That's the thing which your fanboys glasses refuse to see.
His foes and peers are superhuman. So Hyrule is filled with superhumans, Quan? And this makes Link less impressive just because there are other superhumans around? Gorons are quite powerful, actually. They tank volcanic explosions, chew on diamonds and rubies as their main source of food, and can send hundreds of tons flying with punches, as well as smash solid stone.Volvagia being able to terrify them speaks volumes. He was also the third guardian of the OoT era, making him regional level in power, if something like that got out into the world and Link didn't stop it, yes, it could cause quite a lot of desolation.
Dragons in Harry Potter are not as physically imposing as Gorons, or even the King Dodongo, let alone Volvagia.
Yet are hurt by less in combat. To act like anything less than volcanic ash can hurt them is fanboyish to say the least. Who cares what their source of food is. LOL. We are referring to combat related feats and Bo pwning Gorons with boots on demonstrates just how weak they are.
The whole thing is Link a character with little experience can stop these things shows how inadequate the rest of the world is there. One dragon>>Hyrule. Many dragons=pets in Potterland.
They are much more so. An abused dragon can tank multiple force blasts and fly through concrete and stone. That dragon would also rape Link the guy who was ko'd with ease in Tp.
Originally posted by quanchi112Link and Ganondorf are also much, much more powerful than a lot of fictional characters, so what of it?
Most characters in fiction are superhuman. They do things normal people couldn't do on the regular. This doesn't separate Hyrule from anyone fiction wise. That's the thing which your fanboys glasses refuse to see.Yet are hurt by less in combat. To act like anything less than volcanic ash can hurt them is fanboyish to say the least. Who cares what their source of food is. LOL. We are referring to combat related feats and Bo pwning Gorons with boots on demonstrates just how weak they are.
The whole thing is Link a character with little experience can stop these things shows how inadequate the rest of the world is there. One dragon>>Hyrule. Many dragons=pets in Potterland.
They are much more so. An abused dragon can tank multiple force blasts and fly through concrete and stone. That dragon would also rape Link the guy who was ko'd with ease in Tp.
Please show a Goron being hurt by some insignificant amount of force?
Link is a class 100 superhuman with amped strength skill and speed, who fights dirty. Him besting someone does not make them weak, by feats Volvagia is far and away more powerful than any of the HP dragons.
Stupefy is not a force blast, it's a stunning spell, the fact that it takes multiple wizards just to slow down one of the Potter dragons kind of sinks your ship on their no-limit fallacy spells, too.
It crashed through a wall, oh noes. Volvagia eats Gorons, boyo. Gorons >>>>>>>> Walls.
Originally posted by ScreamPasteI disagree. They do hav ehigh feats but I tend to see how they are portrayed rather than highest feats only. I will try to argue with you as a human being and tone down my posts to try to get the point across to you.
Link and Ganondorf are also much, much more powerful than [b] a lot of fictional characters, so what of it?Please show a Goron being hurt by some insignificant amount of force?
Link is a class 100 superhuman with amped strength skill and speed, who fights dirty. Him besting someone does not make them weak, by feats Volvagia is far and away more powerful than any of the HP dragons.
Stupefy is not a force blast, it's a stunning spell, the fact that it takes multiple wizards just to slow down one of the Potter dragons kind of sinks your ship on their no-limit fallacy spells, too.
It crashed through a wall, oh noes. Volvagia eats Gorons, boyo. Gorons >>>>>>>> Walls. [/B]
I will give you an example, Superboy Prime for example is a character many claim tanked a universal destroying blast. Some posters use this feat to ignore all his other losses and showings where something far less hurt him to argue. I don't see this as consistent or a fair approach to debating. I am against highest feats only. Feats are one part of the equation but not the biggest to me. You may disagree but my debating I hope remains consistent.
Link's force is less than this.
I don't see him portrayed in this manner. I see him as the classic hero performing strength feats when necessary but not being on another level of just ripping into his opponents because of some kind of superior strength he possesses. He in no way separated himself from his peers and it's the same old fictional nonsense. Voldemort can easily concrete and stone but when he hits humans just with force blasts they don't rip open. It doesn't translate over and I only argue based on what I see.
I won't try to argue hypocritically in the same manner for who I feel wins the matchup either. If you feel differently cite examples and let's go about this in a more intellectual manner rather than the trashtalking.
We see simple force blasts from Voldemort crack Dumbledore's tomb but when he hits Neville he is just ko'd. His skin isn't ripped through.
I see no reason why this makes it impressive. It's a dragon and Bo and Link can overpower them on occasion with the boots. If the Gorons were on another level than Hylians I could see why this impressed you so but they are not. The Giants physically are unequaled physically in the Potterverse. They can be hurt but physically they are on another level.
Except it isn't highest showing. Gorons on any given day, csn tank small explosions, crush stone with their bare hands, and spend prolonged periods of time working near or in lava. That's just how they are portrayed.
Link may have been ko'ed once early in the game, but his character is potrayed as constantly getting stronger and above normal hylians. Several characters comment on this. Similarly, Bo is FAMOUS for his ability to match strength with gorons. He stated as one of the only humans to beat one.
So based on portrayals.
Hylians <gorons <link.
Originally posted by NotAllThatEvilThey can take high impact attacks. I don't disagree and they are stronger characters. To me it's like Gandalf just because he can tank fire and attacks from a Balrog doesn't mean anything outside fire and what not can't hurt him.
Except it isn't highest showing. Gorons on any given day, csn tank small explosions, crush stone with their bare hands, and spend prolonged periods of time working near or in lava. That's just how they are portrayed.Link may have been ko'ed once early in the game, but his character is potrayed as constantly getting stronger and above normal hylians. Several characters comment on this. Similarly, Bo is FAMOUS for his ability to match strength with gorons. He stated as one of the only humans to beat one.
So based on portrayals.
Hylians <gorons <link.
I disagree. I see him as completing the tasks before him and being lucky in the process. Most heroes survive just because the villain leaves them for dead or someone else saves them. Take Anakin for instance, Link, Harry Potter, etc.
To me it's clear Gorons on their own are on another level than Link but the boots equal the playing field and make it possible to overpower them when needed.
Originally posted by quanchi112
I disagree. They do hav ehigh feats but I tend to see how they are portrayed rather than highest feats only. I will try to argue with you as a human being and tone down my posts to try to get the point across to you.I will give you an example, Superboy Prime for example is a character many claim tanked a universal destroying blast. Some posters use this feat to ignore all his other losses and showings where something far less hurt him to argue. I don't see this as consistent or a fair approach to debating. I am against highest feats only. Feats are one part of the equation but not the biggest to me. You may disagree but my debating I hope remains consistent.
Link's force is less than this.
I don't see him portrayed in this manner. I see him as the classic hero performing strength feats when necessary but not being on another level of just ripping into his opponents because of some kind of superior strength he possesses. He in no way separated himself from his peers and it's the same old fictional nonsense. Voldemort can easily concrete and stone but when he hits humans just with force blasts they don't rip open. It doesn't translate over and I only argue based on what I see.
I won't try to argue hypocritically in the same manner for who I feel wins the matchup either. If you feel differently cite examples and let's go about this in a more intellectual manner rather than the trashtalking.
We see simple force blasts from Voldemort crack Dumbledore's tomb but when he hits Neville he is just ko'd. His skin isn't ripped through.
I see no reason why this makes it impressive. It's a dragon and Bo and Link can overpower them on occasion with the boots. If the Gorons were on another level than Hylians I could see why this impressed you so but they are not. The Giants physically are unequaled physically in the Potterverse. They can be hurt but physically they are on another level.
All right, if you're suddenly going to be civil then so will I. I don't exclusively argue high end feats, either. The difference is what is actually valid to a Video Game character's canon v.s. what isn't. The context of the story surrounding the gameplay, what we are told and how it is shown to us all matter.
Example: You and I have gone back and forth over Link's physical capability time and time again. You argue that he is nothing special because early on he is knocked out by a stone mace to the brain, and because he increases his weight to wrestle with Gorons.
However, at this point in the game, it is pointed out to us that Link is not very powerful during this stage by the Hero's Shade. IT's expressed to us by the Shade and the Light Spirits that Link is constantly becoming more powerful. It's also worth noting that the boots do not make him stronger, and Link lifting and tossing Dangoro is a very good strength feat, it is also pointed out as being on the low end by the Hero's Shade. Link is also shown to be stronger than Fyrus, pulling his legs right out from under him. Again, the boots give him the weight to do so, but the strength is all Link. He also goes from being knocked out from a blow from a Bulbin to taking an axe to the face from their leader and getting back up. This is consistent with what the game tells us: Link is getting stronger.
Those aren't force blasts that Voldemort used, they are spells, which have specific purpose and impact humans differently than they impact inanimate objects. They can crack stone and the like, but this has nothing to do with how they impact a person.
As for your feeling that Link's portrayal is as a classic hero, this really doesn't do anything to lessen his capabilities. Having superhuman peers doesn't either.
Put simply, the Gorons are on another level from Hylians. Remember the Goron who was trapped in a volcanic eruption and blown out the top of the mountain to land at the base? No one could get to Death Mountain because the Gorons would send them packing. When they needed to get to the hidden village they had a Goron smash through solid stone to make a path to get there. There are instances of them sending hundreds of tons flying with punches as well, in Majora's Mask. Even their diet requires superhard teeth and bones and an impossibly strong jaw, they eat gems. Superdense, crystaline stones. shrug Nothing about Gorons is subtle or weak. The only thing they've ever been shown to fear is Volvagia, one of the three guardian spirits of the OoT era.
And yes, the Giants are physically impressive in the Harry Potterverse.
The thing is we are not comparing them within the confines of their own universes anymore. Whether other people in Zelda such as Link are physically comparable to a Goron doesn't detract from their showings, nor does it have anything to do with how they stack up next to Giants.
Basically, I don't see how the existence of many strong characters within one setting makes individuals in the setting weak.
Originally posted by NotAllThatEvilIt isn't luck per say but these are just high end feats which don't dictate how he matches up with a far weaker character in the game. That's what I mean. Just because some think Prime survived a universal blast that doesn't mean we ignore lesser forces which have rocked him. That's my point and always has been.
How is it luck tossing giant rock giants around with his bare hands, or crushing giant ice pillars, or making a living by stopping charging animals with huge antlers/horns. Now you're just being silly.
Originally posted by ScreamPasteI will address this and your other posts later and when I have time.
All right, if you're suddenly going to be civil then so will I. I don't exclusively argue high end feats, either. The difference is what is actually valid to a Video Game character's canon v.s. what isn't. The context of the story surrounding the gameplay, what we are told and how it is shown to us all matter.Example: You and I have gone back and forth over Link's physical capability time and time again. You argue that he is nothing special because early on he is knocked out by a stone mace to the brain, and because he increases his weight to wrestle with Gorons.
However, at this point in the game, it is pointed out to us that Link is not very powerful during this stage by the Hero's Shade. IT's expressed to us by the Shade and the Light Spirits that Link is constantly becoming more powerful. It's also worth noting that the boots do not make him stronger, and Link lifting and tossing Dangoro is a very good strength feat, it is also pointed out as being on the low end by the Hero's Shade. Link is also shown to be stronger than Fyrus, pulling his legs right out from under him. Again, the boots give him the weight to do so, but the strength is all Link. He also goes from being knocked out from a blow from a Bulbin to taking an axe to the face from their leader and getting back up. This is consistent with what the game tells us: Link is getting stronger.
Those aren't force blasts that Voldemort used, they are spells, which have specific purpose and impact humans differently than they impact inanimate objects. They can crack stone and the like, but this has nothing to do with how they impact a person.
As for your feeling that Link's portrayal is as a classic hero, this really doesn't do anything to lessen his capabilities. Having superhuman peers doesn't either.
Put simply, the Gorons are on another level from Hylians. Remember the Goron who was trapped in a volcanic eruption and blown out the top of the mountain to land at the base? No one could get to Death Mountain because the Gorons would send them packing. When they needed to get to the hidden village they had a Goron smash through solid stone to make a path to get there. There are instances of them sending hundreds of tons flying with punches as well, in Majora's Mask. Even their diet requires superhard teeth and bones and an impossibly strong jaw, they eat gems. Superdense, crystaline stones. shrug Nothing about Gorons is subtle or weak. The only thing they've ever been shown to fear is Volvagia, one of the three guardian spirits of the OoT era.
And yes, the Giants are physically impressive [b]in the Harry Potterverse.
The thing is we are not comparing them within the confines of their own universes anymore. Whether other people in Zelda such as Link are physically comparable to a Goron doesn't detract from their showings, nor does it have anything to do with how they stack up next to Giants.
Basically, I don't see how the existence of many strong characters within one setting makes individuals in the setting weak. [/B]
Originally posted by quanchi112
Gorons aren't that spectacular by any means.
One dragon can dominate the land of Hyrule due to Hyrule being a land of sissies and faeries(not just the kind who fly around either). Potterverse keeps them as pets and uses them in competitions. There are many dragons. Many dragons>>>>1 Hylian Dragon.
The dragon was killed by one hero and yet it can dominate the entire world. Laughable. That goes to show you how badass these wizards are.
Many dragons>>>1 dragon who can dominate Hyrule.
None of that has anything to do with the dragons stats.
Flame weaker than lava. Being KO'd from flying into a wall being little compared to surviving several megaton hammer hits. Nothing a HP!Dragon does compares to making a volcano erupt.. Volvagia eats creatures stronger than HP!Dragons for breakfast, quite literally.
Originally posted by ScreamPasteTo me that isn't the only thing canon. I will admit gameplay is a tricky thing. For instance we know Link is fated to win in the end but the how is up to the skill of the player. We can clearly see certain enemies(all enemies) have the power to kill him if provided the opportunity. This boils down to Link's strength, skill, gear and the skill of the player.
All right, if you're suddenly going to be civil then so will I. I don't exclusively argue high end feats, either. The difference is what is actually valid to a Video Game character's canon v.s. what isn't. The context of the story surrounding the gameplay, what we are told and how it is shown to us all matter.
I think Link is beyond a normal human but to me it's the same song and dance seen various times in fiction. I don't think Link is a scrub but his foes clearly have the means and power to hurt/kill him. This is seen throughout the game but ultimately Link prevails doesn't mean everyone he goes through cannot hurt or kill him.
Example: You and I have gone back and forth over Link's physical capability time and time again. You argue that he is nothing special because early on he is knocked out by a stone mace to the brain, and because he increases his weight to wrestle with Gorons.
My point has always been without the weight he cannot do so. He's strong enough just not heavy enough so he needs the gear. I think he does become more powerful and more skilled as the game progresses but that doesn't mean his head becomes more durable. It means his skill and overall strength go up. I can become stronger through weightlifting but no matter how strong I become a kitchen knife will always penetrate my skin. Same principle I am debating by in theory so to speak.
However, at this point in the game, it is pointed out to us that Link is not very powerful during this stage by the Hero's Shade. IT's expressed to us by the Shade and the Light Spirits that Link is constantly becoming more powerful. It's also worth noting that the boots do not make him stronger, and Link lifting and tossing Dangoro is a very good strength feat, it is also pointed out as being on the low end by the Hero's Shade. Link is also shown to be stronger than Fyrus, pulling his legs right out from under him. Again, the boots give him the weight to do so, but the strength is all Link. He also goes from being knocked out from a blow from a Bulbin to taking an axe to the face from their leader and getting back up. This is consistent with what the game tells us: Link is getting stronger.
To me it just shows us Link survives. I don't think the point is he can tank axe shots only that he survived this axe shot in the manner in which it hit him. If Link laid down and left his face unguarded and Bulbin slammed it into an unprotected Link face what would you assume would happen ?
I disagree. The same force blasts have a different end result when they slam into flesh. This happens in fiction often so since there isn't an example of a force blast from his wand ripping into someone's flesh I won't argue this being the case. Voldemort did demonstrate a slash movement of his wand cut into Snape's flesh later though. That I would argue since I see this happen.
Those aren't force blasts that Voldemort used, they are spells, which have specific purpose and impact humans differently than they impact inanimate objects. They can crack stone and the like, but this has nothing to do with how they impact a person.
Being really strong doesn't make him impervious to magic or physical attacks either. That's my point.
As for your feeling that Link's portrayal is as a classic hero, this really doesn't do anything to lessen his capabilities. Having superhuman peers doesn't either.
The Gorons are physically imposing beings. Who was actually trying to get through though ? That bit of information would help. They are stronger and more durable than Hylians but not immune to force/magic/physical attacks either. They don't seem to be a smart people though which puts them at a disadvantage. That's one general problem I have with Hyrule is that the good guys don't seem well organized at all.
Put simply, the Gorons are on another level from Hylians. Remember the Goron who was trapped in a volcanic eruption and blown out the top of the mountain to land at the base? No one could get to Death Mountain because the Gorons would send them packing. When they needed to get to the hidden village they had a Goron smash through solid stone to make a path to get there. There are instances of them sending hundreds of tons flying with punches as well, in Majora's Mask. Even their diet requires superhard teeth and bones and an impossibly strong jaw, they eat gems. Superdense, crystaline stones. shrug Nothing about Gorons is subtle or weak. The only thing they've ever been shown to fear is Volvagia, one of the three guardian spirits of the OoT era.
The Giants and the Gorons both can hurt each other. The Giants also have the weight needed and are superior in size. The Giants are much more powerful than the animated statues in Potter. We see they can be hurt and killed by them. Their skin isn't immune to physical attacks just like the Gorons are not. Both can hurt/kill the other. I myself favor the Giants over the Gorons but whatvs.
And yes, the Giants are physically impressive [b]in the Harry Potterverse.The thing is we are not comparing them within the confines of their own universes anymore. Whether other people in Zelda such as Link are physically comparable to a Goron doesn't detract from their showings, nor does it have anything to do with how they stack up next to Giants.
Basically, I don't see how the existence of many strong characters within one setting makes individuals in the setting weak. [/B]