Legalizing Drugs in Mexico

What Oliver North said: it needs to be legal in the US AND Mexico in order to see a significant change in how crime is done.

And the crime diversification is much closer to "Cocaine, Marijuana, Methamphetamine, Ecstasy, and opiates." It is much less something like, "heavy machinery, guns, illicit drugs, and pharmaceuticals." That's not how Mexican Drug Cartels operate.

There are currently 7 (or 8) major drug cartels. They are NOT diverse: almost all their operations focus, in some way, on making drugs or trafficking drugs. Legalizing drugs in Mexico, as Oliver North pointed out, does not solve the majority of the problems with drugs and drug cartels in Mexico: the money is being made north of the border.

If we legalized drugs in the US in a way that covered about 100% of the drugs trafficked from Mexico into the US, it may vastly reduce the profitability of drug operations from the cartels. But, it would change the market from illegal to above-board operations: not really a big change. These cartels would function more like corporations, at this point. And they have the cash assets to quickly transform operations to conform to the new legal requirements.

What we would see is a slow and gradual transformation as the markets become quickly saturated with sources of drugs from places other than the Mexican Cartels. You would see some residual violence from the cartels continue but it would eventually die off as most operations become "above-board".

Currently, many pharmaceuticals consumed in the US come from Mexican labs. These drugs are knock-offs and illegal products from name-brand drug companies. What makes anyone think these operations would magically cease to exist? A Mexican Lab that can produce Pfizer grade drugs is hardly going to be at a disadvantage if most drugs are made legal in the US.

Basically, making drugs legal in Mexico and the US does not immediately stop the cartel problems. But, in the long term (10-20 years), it probably would reduce the crime.

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
You guys just always need a place to stick your dick, huh?

"See, there's three kinds of people: dicks, pussies, and assholes. Pussies think everyone can get along, and dicks just want to **** all the time without thinking it through. But then you got your assholes, [Lord Lucien]. And all the assholes want us to shit all over everything! So, pussies may get mad at dicks once in a while, because pussies get ****ed by dicks. But dicks also **** assholes, [Lord Lucien]. And if they didn't **** the assholes, you know what you'd get? You'd get your dick and your pussy all covered in shit!"

"We're (The USA) dicks! We're reckless, arrogant, stupid dicks. ... Pussies don't like dicks, because pussies get ****ed by dicks. But dicks also **** assholes: assholes that just want to shit on everything. Pussies may think they can deal with assholes their way. But the only thing that can **** an ******* is a dick, with some balls. The problem with dicks is: they **** too much or **** when it isn't appropriate - and it takes a pussy to show them that. But sometimes, pussies can be so full of shit that they become assholes themselves... because pussies are an inch and half away from ass holes. I don't know much about this crazy, crazy world, but I do know this: If you don't let us **** this *******, we're going to have our dicks and pussies all covered in shit!"

Note: I didn't edit anything so the censor would censor.

Originally posted by dadudemon
And the crime diversification is much closer to "Cocaine, Marijuana, Methamphetamine, Ecstasy, and opiates."

you could add kidnapping, ransom, extortion, gun smuggling, assassination, political corruption, human smuggling, etc.

I agree that legalizing drugs in the US would be a huge blow to the cartels, possibly a fatal one in the long term, but with the power the cartels wield already, they aren't going to be simply displaced, and the Mexican government is really in no better position to tackle them directly. I think the cartels could easily diversify and muscle their way into other illicit forms of money making, however, it may reduce the violence and the cartels may become more like traditional organized crime groups: attempting to attract as little attention as possible.

Originally posted by Nietzschean
umm...no. factories and legal protections changes things due to quality control.

Cartels already murder their competition to keep themselves in power. Do you honestly think that's going to change just because you made drugs legal? The Mexican army can't stop those killings and outside of Libertarian wet dreams a group of weed growing homesteaders aren't going to hold odd cartel soldiers.

Originally posted by Nietzschean
the mexican law enforcement already has a large list of known drug dealers and traffickers its not like they can walk out and invest in companies..

If the Mexican government could control the cartels there's wouldn't be a drug war. They would have ended it.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Cartels already [b]murder their competition to keep themselves in power. Do you honestly think that's going to change just because you made drugs legal? The Mexican army can't stop those killings and outside of Libertarian wet dreams a group of weed growing homesteaders aren't going to hold odd cartel soldiers.

If the Mexican government could control the cartels there's wouldn't be a drug war. They would have ended it. [/B]

they have small skirmishes from time to time that is all and in these usually the mexican military wins. my cousin was Mexican/U.S. drug law enforcement.

he has told me it isnt that they cant defend or take them down by force and overpowering them, its that they are spread out and cannot be located and usually have support from towns and local people which they help provide for so no one turns them in.

you might as well say the police/f.b.i./ATF/Marines cannot stop drug crime and legalizing drugs wont stop anything b/c they kill one another and other people.

🙄

the drug cartels control certain areas where police military is not at but they arent stupid enough to attack factories, farms where there is a military police presence which by the way the mexican government actually provides for certain companies or lands, and progressing towns.. it actually does deters them from certain areas.

Originally posted by Oliver North
you could add kidnapping, ransom, extortion, gun smuggling, assassination, political corruption, human smuggling, etc.

Well, actually, you could add pretty much every last single illegal activity ever to their crime list (including cyber terrorism and treason) . But those are hardly their primary motivations. Major organized crime elements commit all sorts of atrocities. But saying that they are "diversified" is not very telling of how much the Mexican Drug Cartels are invested in just that: drugs. Remove all drug operations from their "service catalog" and you end up with an organized crime syndicates that have been hollowed out with barely anyway to make money: the could not support themselves, any longer.

Originally posted by Oliver North
I think the cartels could easily diversify and muscle their way into other illicit forms of money making,

I don't. But, let's be real: no such laws or enforcement of laws will occur in a manner that forces the Mexican Drug Cartels to have to restructure and develop "business" models around different services (other than drug related services), overnight.

Originally posted by Oliver North
however, it may reduce the violence and the cartels may become more like traditional organized crime groups: attempting to attract as little attention as possible.

That is more desirable, for sure.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Cartels already [b]murder their competition to keep themselves in power. Do you honestly think that's going to change just because you made drugs legal? The Mexican army can't stop those killings and outside of Libertarian wet dreams a group of weed growing homesteaders aren't going to hold odd cartel soldiers. [/B]

But american corporations and millions of private "drug makers" will certainly undermine the Mexican Drug Cartel's hold...making them virtually impotent. They won't squabble over a market that is saturated: they can't wage a war against multiple big name drug corporations and millions of individual drug makers.

In other words, a libertarian's wet dream is impossible (and I honestly don't know what a libertarian's dream about this drug problem would be) because major corporations will be players.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
If the Mexican government could control the cartels there's wouldn't be a drug war. They would have ended it.

Short of systematic mass murder, there's hardly anything that could be done. And even if they did that, eventually, some other group would pop-up in their place. The environment has to change, too.

Originally posted by dadudemon
But american corporations and millions of private "drug makers" will certainly undermine the Mexican Drug Cartel's hold...making them virtually impotent.

Only if the US also legalizes drugs which was not at all part of the OP. Legalizing drugs in Mexico alone is totally pointless.

If you'd like to be part of the discussion at least go look at what the conversation is about. 🙂

Originally posted by dadudemon
and I honestly don't know what a libertarian's dream about this drug problem would be

Heinlein inspired power fantasies, as usual.

Originally posted by dadudemon
Short of systematic mass murder

Because we all know cartels are strongly opposed to killing lots of people in order to make money.

Originally posted by dadudemon
"See, there's three kinds of people: dicks, pussies, and assholes. Pussies think everyone can get along, and dicks just want to **** all the time without thinking it through. But then you got your assholes, [Lord Lucien]. And all the assholes want us to shit all over everything! So, pussies may get mad at dicks once in a while, because pussies get ****ed by dicks. But dicks also **** assholes, [Lord Lucien]. And if they didn't **** the assholes, you know what you'd get? You'd get your dick and your pussy all covered in shit!"

"We're (The USA) dicks! We're reckless, arrogant, stupid dicks. ... Pussies don't like dicks, because pussies get ****ed by dicks. But dicks also **** assholes: assholes that just want to shit on everything. Pussies may think they can deal with assholes their way. But the only thing that can **** an ******* is a dick, with some balls. The problem with dicks is: they **** too much or **** when it isn't appropriate - and it takes a pussy to show them that. But sometimes, pussies can be so full of shit that they become assholes themselves... because pussies are an inch and half away from ass holes. I don't know much about this crazy, crazy world, but I do know this: If you don't let us **** this *******, we're going to have our dicks and pussies all covered in shit!"

Note: I didn't edit anything so the censor would censor.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Only if the US also legalizes drugs which was not at all part of the OP. Legalizing drugs in Mexico alone is totally pointless.

If you'd like to be part of the discussion at least go look at what the conversation is about. 🙂

My bad: I thought both you and I were speculating and commenting on what the libertarian wet dream would be concerning drug legalization (fundamentally, it has to be legalized in the US: deviating from that position would not be something most libertarians would do) because that's what you mentioned.

Surely you don't believe libertarians only want weed unconditionally legalized? I thought that was just you being snarky about one of their favorite subjects: I didn't believe you only meant just weed and weed alone.

No, honestly, I apologize. I didn't mean to offend.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Heinlein inspired power fantasies, as usual.

I am not as cultured as you are: I am not very familiar with Heinlein's political philosophies in his science fiction writings. I assume it has a lot to do with self-determination and personal liberty? Please, paint a picture for the ignorant because I'd love to laugh at this obviously witty comment: your joke is lost on ignorant eyes.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Because we all know cartels are strongly opposed to killing lots of people in order to make money.

I was referring to the systematic mass murder of the members of the cartels. If you go back and read that statement, again, with that knowledge, my comment makes much more sense.

Also, who is "we" in your above statement? 🙁

r81_GhjOzv0#!

Originally posted by dadudemon
Well, actually, you could add pretty much every last single illegal activity ever to their crime list (including cyber terrorism and treason) . But those are hardly their primary motivations. Major organized crime elements commit all sorts of atrocities. But saying that they are "diversified" is not very telling of how much the Mexican Drug Cartels are invested in just that: drugs. Remove all drug operations from their "service catalog" and you end up with an organized crime syndicates that have been hollowed out with barely anyway to make money: the could not support themselves, any longer.

Drugs are the primary source of their resources and cause of violence, but they are equally as involved in kidnap/extortion scams (especially on migrants trying to cross the border in their territory) as they are in many other things.

I don't know what you mean by "diversified" if not: doing many things to gain money. The only difference is that there is not nearly as much money to be made in it.

Originally posted by dadudemon
I don't. But, let's be real: no such laws or enforcement of laws will occur in a manner that forces the Mexican Drug Cartels to have to restructure and develop "business" models around different services (other than drug related services), overnight.

not overnight, no, but before the Mexican law enforcement agencies can organize enough to stop them, for sure.