Originally posted by Galan007Okay, but how could his most powerful move be making the sun go supernova... and not being able to beat korvac... but then be able to compete with the IG? That seems like a big disparity in power no? So you think his power level is always the same?
LT was not empowered moreso by God when he sized up the IG. Representing TOAA does not mean he had the power of TOAA-- I've never understood why people felt this way.The representative for NASA does not shoot rockets out of his feet, he merely speaks on the company's behalf. Same applies here with LT/TOAA, imo.
Originally posted by Cogito
Saying "I represent a higher power" does not mean he's amped by said higher power in that situation. Don't know why people have read it as such./shrug
Don't understand how you came to such a conclusion by reading my previous post .
Edit : As I mentioned in my previous post though , current opinion in Marvel is in all likelihood that LT>>>>IG(irrespective of whether or not there is a mention of his status as TOAA's representative/servant) .
Originally posted by KuRuPT ThanosiLT's level of power, just like every other character in fiction, is entirely plot-dependent. There will always be variances. Some are explainable, and some are not.
Okay, but how could his most powerful move be making the sun go supernova... and not being able to beat korvac... but then be able to compete with the IG? That seems like a big disparity in power no? So you think his power level is always the same?
Originally posted by Galan007
LT's level of power, just like every other character in fiction, is entirely plot-dependent. There will always be variances. Some are explainable, and some are not.
IMO , comic book writers should simply stop throwing around the word "omnipotent" so casually . Omnipotence is more a state of being , not some cheap superpower , and characters with such a "powerset" can simply never be written properly .
Also , there's always the Omnipotence Paradox to consider , something writers are almost always ignorant about .
Originally posted by KuRuPT ThanosiOkay, but how could his most powerful move be making the sun go supernova...
and not being able to beat korvac..?
That was a 1982 "What If" title. While canon to LT, it's still plot constricted.
First,
we really can't say LT couldn't beat Korvac
because LT never attacked Korvac directly with his power,
and Korvac never saw the LT, he didn't even mentioned the LT,
I believe Korvac never knew the LT was ever there. 😂
Simple, had Korvac and LT actually battled,
Korvac gets stomped and the story ends wrong.
The plot was for Korvac to end the Universe and himself,
LT's appearance was pointless.
(well, to seal Korvac in, although Korvac didn't want to, and wasn't going anywhere)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That aside:
Concerning the LT and IG ...
The LT clarified why he was felt he was above the IG:
"I represent forces that dwarf even your might ... My authority comes from on high"
----------------------------------------------------------------------
If what the LT is saying here is meaningless regarding his power-output,
why even mention it? I mean, how does it make a difference for him to say that?
It makes no sense for the LT to state that so boldly if it doesn't
pertain directly to his power due to him being connected to the
TOAA as the representative.
... imo ...
I think this below, again imo, seals it.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Warlock literally stated that it was TOAA that was above the 616 IG:
"I was called to judgement by the LT,
the servant of the one who is above even Gods"
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The amazing thing is, that even still,
the LT had to determine if he had the power to forcibly take the IG from Warlock,
and he did have the power, but he had to make sure first,
even though the LT knew he was backed by TOAA.
Simply incredible.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Until next time friends. 🙂
hmm, lt's always been a bit of a mystery. it could certainly be that inconsistent portrayals are simply that--plot driven inconsistencies. i think there is an argument that can be made for a varying power-level as regards lt though. i'd always ascribed it to the fact that like any abstract lt uses an m-body. and while an m-body could access all the power at the abstracts disposal, it doesn't necessarily do so. we've seen an angry eternity barely able to blow up a planet, lt use a supernova as final punishment and galan mentioned reed's machine. instead of falling on PIS, i tried rationalizing it as different m-bodies having been granted differing amounts of power. i guess one could go a step further and say the power that inhabits the lt m-bodies comes from toaa, but that.....doesn't quite work for me. that type of spectre-esque explanation would require a LOT more support imo. maybe he just realized that when he met adam he would require that his m-body possess more power.
i think it's at least not an unreasonable stance, and one that has at least some support. it's that or galan's idea imo. both work. the question essentially can't be answered definitively anyway, so i suppose no reason is definitively more 'right' than the others. just that the 'backing theory' has the least amount of support. imo at least.
Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
1. Some people believe that the LT was only talking about using his own power.. when talking about being able to beat Warlock with the IG. Some cite the fact that since the LT had doubts about whether he could take it by froce.. then he couldn't be coming with the TOAA power or else he would have no doubts...2. Other say that he was coming not with just his own power.. but with the power of TOAA. People cite hm saying he comes as a representative of a power beyond the IG's.
Which side are you guys on.. Did the LT come with the backing and power of the TOAA behind him... or was he coming with just his power?
The best and only answer is that it was inconclusive.
@Leo :
As far as inconsistent portrayals go , I doubt that in his introduction period in Dr Strange comics , LT was intended to be little more than simply another high-end Abstract/Cosmic Entity , who for some reason always seemed to invoke Elder Gods(like the Vishanti and Octessence) for power(a portrayal which has caused many comicvine tards to erroneously assume that "extradimensional" entities like these Elder Gods are above LT) .
In fact here is a scan(I showed it to Galan as well in a PM) which seems to imply that the INBETWEENER IS LT's SUPERIOR !!!! And the implication is made by none other than LT himself("in this case I choose a higher entity to enforce our verdict") :
http://i.imgur.com/vheEU.jpg
Originally posted by TheGodKiller
@Leo :As far as inconsistent portrayals go , I doubt that in his introduction
period in Dr Strange comics , LT was intended to be little more than
simply another high-end Abstract/Cosmic Entity , who for some reason
always seemed to invoke Elder Gods(like the Vishanti and
Octessence) for power(a portrayal which has caused many comicvine
tards to erroneously assume that "extradimensional" entities like
these Elder Gods are above LT) .In fact here is a scan(I showed it to Galan as well in a PM) which
) :
seems to imply that the INBETWEENER IS LT's SUPERIOR !!!! And the
implication is made by none other than LT himself([b]"in this case I
choose a higher entity to enforce our verdict"
http://i.imgur.com/vheEU.jpg [/B]
Although the LT since his inception was portrayed to be the most powerful entity,
the judge of all realities.
I know that issue, and there's no way the LT needed IB for anything.
The LT summoned him because it was the writer's intent to give the story more zap,
as Strange taking on the LT is/was a joke.
It was the writer's choice of words that has Comicvine confused.
The plot in its entirety tells the true tale.
--------------------------------------------------
That aside:
Just wanted to add to my previous post.
Warlock had just obliterated the Cosmic hierarchy,
and the LT not only withstood the attack, but reversed its affect with a gesture:
[img=http://s4d3.turboimagehost.com/t/13189827_IG1.jpg]
[img=http://s4d3.turboimagehost.com/t/13189829_IG2.jpg]
As we can see, the LT then clearly replies to Warlock's "How?"
by stating he "represents forces that dwarf" even the IG.
He further adds, his "authority comes from on high."
Cool. We know the LT is the TOAA's "representative"
and the dialogue is clear the LT is NOT referring to his own power.
+++++
Then we have Warlock literally stating that in fact, it is TOAA that is above the IG.
Warlock also confirms that the LT is again, the "representative" ...
[img=http://s4d4.turboimagehost.com/t/13189842_LT_above_IG2.jpg]
+++++
Imo, not really an opinion imo. lol.
Since both the LT and Warlock/IG conclusively asserted that TOAA (forces LT represents)
"is the one that is above even God" ...
... uhm ... that's it.
I also don't believe the LT or any other Concept rolls at fragmented levels of power.
MC2 Reed is a bad example since Reed never directly affected the LT,
the LT and Cosmics's power + Reed's Canon was what bfr'd the Cosmics.
Had Reed actually shot the LT and affected the LT in anyway whatsoever,
I would say yes, Reed got the better of him.
But no. Take away the LT's own power merged with the rest of the Cosmics,
and then let's see Reed's Canon do something, heck ... to ANY of them.
Mr. Masters I have a question for you... So do you believe the LT has his own power and then sometimes the TOAA gives me a little more power when needed. You seem to believe that in this situation (warlock IG) That the LT was coming with the power of TOAA.. So do you believe the LT has his own power (totally seperate from TOAA) or because TOAA gave LT his powe to judge.. it's all really just TOAA power the LT uses each and every time?
Originally posted by TheGodKiller
@Leo :
As far as inconsistent portrayals go , I doubt that in his introduction period in Dr Strange comics , LT was intended to be little more than simply another high-end Abstract/Cosmic Entity , who for some reason always seemed to invoke Elder Gods(like the Vishanti and Octessence) for power(a portrayal which has caused many comicvine tards to erroneously assume that "extradimensional" entities like these Elder Gods are above LT) .In fact here is a scan(I showed it to Galan as well in a PM) which seems to imply that the INBETWEENER IS LT's SUPERIOR !!!! And the implication is made by none other than LT himself([b]"in this case I choose a higher entity to enforce our verdict"
) :
http://i.imgur.com/vheEU.jpg [/B]
i'm actually with mrm on that scene. i have never read it with the understanding that IB was lt's superior. i just assumed the 'higher' reference was made to strange--higher than strange. equally telling was the ease that he summoned ib and had him do his bidding. maybe it's because i never for a second considered the fact that anyone would claim ib>lt but that scene was never in the least ambiguous to me. i guess after hearing what you've said, i could see why someone would interpret it that way. to which i would say if that was the original intent, clearly the scene has since become irrelevant because there is obviously no doubt lt>>>ib. so again, it's a non-argument. shrug
Originally posted by leonidas
i'm actually with mrm on that scene. i have never read it with the understanding that IB was lt's superior. i just assumed the 'higher' reference was made to strange--higher than strange. equally telling was the ease that he summoned ib and had him do his bidding. maybe it's because i never for a second considered the fact that anyone would claim ib>lt but that scene was never in the least ambiguous to me. i guess after hearing what you've said, i could see why someone would interpret it that way. to which i would say if that was the original intent, clearly the scene has since become irrelevant because there is obviously no doubt lt>>>ib. so again, it's a non-argument. shrug
Originally posted by Mr Master
Good point GK.Although the LT since his inception was portrayed to be the most powerful entity,
the judge of all realities.I know that issue, and there's no way the LT needed IB for anything.
The LT summoned him because it was the writer's intent to give the story more zap,
as Strange taking on the LT is/was a joke.It was the writer's choice of words that has Comicvine confused.
The plot in its entirety tells the true tale.--------------------------------------------------
That aside:
Just wanted to add to my previous post.
Warlock had just obliterated the Cosmic hierarchy,
and the LT not only withstood the attack, but reversed its affect with a gesture:[img=http://s4d3.turboimagehost.com/t/13189827_IG1.jpg]
[img=http://s4d3.turboimagehost.com/t/13189829_IG2.jpg]
As we can see, the LT then clearly replies to Warlock's "How?"
that dwarf" even the IG.
by stating he "represents [b]forces
He further adds, his "authority comes from on high."Cool. We know the LT is the TOAA's "representative"
and the dialogue is clear the LT is NOT referring to his own power.+++++
Then we have Warlock literally stating that in fact, it is TOAA that is above the IG.
Warlock also confirms that the LT is again, the "representative" ...[img=http://s4d4.turboimagehost.com/t/13189842_LT_above_IG2.jpg]
+++++
Imo, not really an opinion imo. lol.
Since both the LT and Warlock/IG conclusively asserted that TOAA (forces LT represents)
"is the one that is above even God" ...... uhm ... that's it.
I also don't believe the LT or any other Concept rolls at fragmented levels of power.
MC2 Reed is a bad example since Reed never directly affected the LT,
the LT and Cosmics's power + Reed's Canon was what bfr'd the Cosmics.Had Reed actually shot the LT and affected the LT in anyway whatsoever,
I would say yes, Reed got the better of him.But no. Take away the LT's own power merged with the rest of the Cosmics,
and then let's see Reed's Canon do something, heck ... to ANY of them. [/B]
I don't think LT has fragmented power in as much as, moreso than many cosmic entities, he doesn't truly have free will, and his actions are all based on threat assessments and his 3 heads being in accord on a given course of action. In the instance of Korvac, LT, for reason's unknown, came to the decision that a supernova was sufficiently destructive to wipe out Korvac's threat to that universe (his "ultimate judgment"😉 and restore balance to the overall universe, but that proved to be insufficient, and rather than applying his power directly he quarantined the entire universe from the rest of the multiverse (which would seem like a greater exertion of power than simply causing a star to go nova with a casual blast) and left.
Makes no f*cking sense whatsoever.
![[img=http://s4d3.turboimagehost.com/t/13189827_IG1.jpg]](http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/13189827/IG1.jpg.html){kind=link}
![[img=http://s4d3.turboimagehost.com/t/13189829_IG2.jpg]](http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/13189829/IG2.jpg.html){kind=link}
![[img=http://s4d4.turboimagehost.com/t/13189842_LT_above_IG2.jpg]](http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/13189842/LT_above_IG2.jpg.html){kind=link}