Originally posted by celeyhyga17
I know, but giving Goldilocks the win here just doesn't feel right!!!! 😠Frukkin godblast... Belt of str ain't gonna do much since Zeus gonna amp the frukk up. Shield and gloves will help though... But bleh with this godlbast business.
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/5863060/Incredible_Hulks_622_006.jpg.html
Kind of like this scene when he was amping up.
Originally posted by carver9
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/5863060/Incredible_Hulks_622_006.jpg.htmlKind of like this scene when he was amping up.
And this proves...what?
Originally posted by JakeTheBank
I think the best and fair thing to do is to cite or post some Zeus showings that would suggest him being well enough after a Godblast to fight an incredibly amped Thor in only H2H and win or even put up enough of a fight to justify Thor not winning decisively, which, all things considered, he likely would.Personally, I feel myself and others have made more than a solid enough case using on panel evidence and feats in favor of Thor per the OP's stips. And from what I'm reading, people are thinking that Zeus' status as a skyfather as the reason why they're hesitant on giving Thor, even amped and getting a free Godblast the win.
Unfortunately, we have actual on panel evidence of what the Godblast is consistently capable of (including going through an actual skyfather - who is amped by her entire pantheon + Odin's own power) and what level the Odin Force enchanted gear took him to (matching an amped Thanosi who was clearly above the power levels of a "standard" Thanos).
Tbh, the counter-argument of "Zeus is a skyfather" doesn't really hold much weight in this thread as we know that even skyfathers can and will get rocked by the Godblast to say nothing of an amped Thor in melee.
But your argument is flawed. It assumes level of durability is the same as level of power. Just because someone has some (not all) of Odin's power and other power doesn't prove their durability. They must prove it through feats of durability.
By your argument Thor can kill Odin with a GB. You once criticized me for saying that King Thor, etc. can't damage WBH directly. But you provided no proof of him doing an attack where it was shown to surpassed the power that WBH felt when he collided. You were using the classic skyfather argument you are debating against now.
Also, the Exitar GB feat cannot be used as it is PIS. What else do we have for GB feats?
Originally posted by The Sorrow
That it has no bearing here.Either way Odin took blasts from the totality of her power so he clearly wasn't as weakened as is being made out. The amount of energy she drained from Odin is also ambiguous, I don't recall it ever being stated or shown that she drained "most of Odin's power". The Dark Gods went out their way to make sure Zeus didn't get involved in their war for a reason.
If that godblast scene was clear then there would be no room for interpretation but there is. Reading that scene I didn't get the impression she was defeated, when you're badly injured you generally don't talk as if whatever attack you sustained was a small setback. Again there would also have been no need for Odin to divebomb her like that if she was truly done for. Whatever (if any) injuries Thor inflicted in that scene would have been temporary.
He was strong enough that when he , Balder and Sif got trapped due to Zelia's Asgard-crust shattering blast , Replicus' eye beams were needed to to free them .
Yup , Odin's inablity to escape from his bonds while under imprisonment , his inability to free himself, Balder and Sif in the aforementioned scene , nevermind the fact that Odin himself admitted how he had been weakened , not once but twice in that same issue(in one instance he stated it was due to holding up his prison for months and in the other due to Zelia leeching of on his power all this while) clearly doesn't indicate that he was drastically gimped down in that arc , right ?
By Zeus , you mean all of Olympus right ? Also , Zeus mentioned that he couldn’t believe that Odin had ordered such treachery until on the final day of battle he spotted Odin(D'Çhel in reality) standing next to Loki, and both had reason to look satisfied . Why would he say something like that if he wasn't present in the battle of Olympus ?
And yeah , there is no room for interpretation in that case . Thor GBed right through the center of her torso , she's on the ground in the next instance , stammering in her opening speech , then a weakened Odin grabs her and siphons of the power she stole from him . Hell , you yourself admit to something of the kind :
Originally posted by The Sorrow
him forcibly draining Zelia after she just ate a GB is certainly feasible.
Odin was the only one(and in that very arc Thor confirms this by saying that only by freeing Odin can the day be saved) who could have put the Dark Gods down once and for all in that arc , and the only way he could have done it was by reclaiming the power Zelia stole from her .
Originally posted by h1a8
But your argument is flawed. It assumes level of durability is the same as level of power. Just because someone has some (not all) of Odin's power and other power doesn't prove their durability. They must prove it through feats of durability.By your argument Thor can kill Odin with a GB. You once criticized me for saying that King Thor, etc. can't damage WBH directly. But you provided no proof to him doing an attack where it was shown to surpassed the power that WBH felt when he collided. You were using the classic skyfather argument you are debating against now.
Also, the Exitar GB feat cannot be used as it is PIS. What else do we have for GB feats?
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That's asinine. Zelia took on the vast majority of Odin's power (ie. the Odin Force, which clearly on panel amplifies durability of its user) in addition to her own power, which is already enough to be a rival of Odin seeing as she took him as prisoner and stole his power. We saw how the Godblast ripped through her. And the idea that Zeus would somehow not be in as bad shape or somehow not be adversely effected to a significant degree is ridiculous as all hell and certainly not based off any Zeus feat (which have yet to be posted).
Where did I say Odin would be killed by the Godblast? By feats, Odin would be hurt if he took a Godblast. No one with any real knowledge of either character would deny this. Localized and focused power attacks =/= colleteral damage. Just because high end focused attacks such as an Omega Effect, or Odin Force amplified Mjolnir throw, or Krona Buster, or Voidtry's molecular manipulation don't blow up a planet doesn't mean their power is any less potent. Planets are also far less durable than heralds when it comes to their material. Them being bigger and composed of much greater mass doesn't change that. And for the record, your argument was ridiculed by not just me and the vast majority of KMC because you somehow think the likes of RKT couldn't hope to effect WBH directly, which is one of the most deluded thoughts ever posted on the matter.
How is the Exitar showing PIS? It's an extremely high end feat for Thor using the Godblast, which in of itself, is an extremely high end attack for Thor to begin with which dwarfs virtually everything else in his powerset, in spite of its smaller scale.
-Thor's blasted a hole and effectively neutralized Zelia with a Godblast.
-He cracked Exitar's dome with it (you not liking it doesn't make it PIS, especially when beings such as Thor have a history of performing absurd high end feats normally outside of their "tier"😉.
-He provided enough energy to uphold 1/4 of Marvel's multiversal walls of reality from collapsing.
-He scared off Galactus who was in fear for his life.
-He forcibly warped two beings who rival Odin in power into another dimension.
-He slew the Midgard Serpent by channeling his life force and Mjolnir together as one.
The fact that we're arguing against Thor's Godblast seriously phucking up Zeus is insane.
And until someone posts a durability or recovery feat from Zeus to justify him being okay enough to handle a grossly amped Thor in H2H, there's no reason to dismiss on-panel evidence in favor of "Well, it doesn't sound right for Thor to ever beat Zeus because he's a skyfather".
Originally posted by JakeTheBank
😐That's asinine. Zelia took on the vast majority of Odin's power (ie. the Odin Force, which clearly on panel amplifies durability of its user) in addition to her own power, which is already enough to be a rival of Odin seeing as she took him as prisoner and stole his power. We saw how the Godblast ripped through her. And the idea that Zeus would somehow not be in as bad shape or somehow not be adversely effected to a significant degree is ridiculous as all hell and certainly not based off any Zeus feat (which have yet to be posted).
Where did I say Odin would be killed by the Godblast? By feats, Odin would be hurt if he took a Godblast. No one with any real knowledge of either character would deny this. Localized and focused power attacks =/= colleteral damage. Just because high end focused attacks such as an Omega Effect, or Odin Force amplified Mjolnir throw, or Krona Buster, or Voidtry's molecular manipulation don't blow up a planet doesn't mean their power is any less potent. Planets are also far less durable than heralds when it comes to their material. Them being bigger and composed of much greater mass doesn't change that. And for the record, your argument was ridiculed by not just me and the vast majority of KMC because you somehow think the likes of RKT couldn't hope to effect WBH directly, which is one of the most deluded thoughts ever posted on the matter.
How is the Exitar showing PIS? It's an extremely high end feat for Thor using the Godblast, which in of itself, is an extremely high end attack for Thor to begin with which dwarfs virtually everything else in his powerset, in spite of its smaller scale.
-Thor's blasted a hole and effectively neutralized Zelia with a Godblast.
-He cracked Exitar's dome with it (you not liking it doesn't make it PIS, especially when beings such as Thor have a history of performing absurd high end feats normally outside of their "tier"😉.
-He provided enough energy to uphold 1/4 of Marvel's multiversal walls of reality from collapsing.
-He scared off Galactus who was in fear for his life.
-He forcibly warped two beings who rival Odin in power into another dimension.
-He slew the Midgard Serpent by channeling his life force and Mjolnir together as one.The fact that we're arguing against Thor's Godblast seriously phucking up Zeus is insane.
And until someone posts a durability or recovery feat from Zeus to justify him being okay enough to handle a grossly amped Thor in H2H, there's no reason to dismiss on-panel evidence in favor of "Well, it doesn't sound right for Thor to ever beat Zeus because he's a skyfather".
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Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Sure, he probably would.Of course, he'd be FUBUR'd after taking a Godblast and has no feats to get around this fact, let alone being able to handle an amped Thor in H2H only.
You don't think Zeus can handle Thor strength amplified x10? I think he would physically destroy him with only an amp of that significance. The GB is the key factor here and people are making legit arguments on both sides.
Originally posted by carver9
You don't think Zeus can handle Thor strength amplified x10? I think he would physically destroy him with only an amp of that significance. The GB is the key factor here and people are making legit arguments on both sides.
Not after the Godblast, no. Especially considering how that Thor fared against a Thanosi who was about to destroy the universe and destroyed a planet without any effort. I'd say the gear amped with the Odin Force made Thor powerful enough to be able to contend with Zeus, and nothing Zeus really did on panel suggests he'd physically destroy Thor even without the Godblast (though it's possible he'd win). And that Thor was decisively more powerful than OF Thor, who was firmly trans level.
What legitimate arguments have been made against the Godblast's effectiveness? What feats of Zeus suggest he'd be well enough to fight Thor after that outside of "he's a skyfather"?
Originally posted by carver9
A slightly amped Zeus TANKED an attack from Galactus as if it were nothing. I highly doubt the GB would do the damage you are saying it would do.
Zeus tanked a powerful blast from Galactus because he was amp by Chaos King, big difference he won't have that luxury against Thor. Why are using a different Zeus then what is mentioned in thread? GB will mess up Zeus, and leave him vulnerable against Thor onslaught with OF amp weapons.
Originally posted by carver9
A slightly amped Zeus TANKED an attack from Galactus as if it were nothing. I highly doubt the GB would do the damage you are saying it would do.
And we saw what a normal Godblast did to a significantly amped Skyfather. On panel. I don't see how you can just outright dismiss actual feats in favor of speculation.
So, unless you can show me a base level Zeus enduring an attack of the Godblast's consistent history of potency, there's no reason to assume that he wouldn't be messed up based off everything the Godblast has done on panel, which is > than a moderate attack from Galactus while being amped by the Chaos King.
Originally posted by JakeTheBank
😐That's asinine. Zelia took on the vast majority of Odin's power (ie. the Odin Force, which clearly on panel amplifies durability of its user) in addition to her own power, which is already enough to be a rival of Odin seeing as she took him as prisoner and stole his power. We saw how the Godblast ripped through her. And the idea that Zeus would somehow not be in as bad shape or somehow not be adversely effected to a significant degree is ridiculous as all hell and certainly not based off any Zeus feat (which have yet to be posted).
It still wasn't all of his power. That's moot anyway so let's drop it. Yes the OF can amplify durability but we don't know how much it amped hers (if any). Each character is different. We can't use feat sharing now. But we can give her the benefit of the doubt and say her durability is trans level or above without seeing actual feats but we are not obligated to do so. Plus you are weighing that feat too much in comparison to Thor's other GB feats. IMO this should be weighed no higher than any other of his GB showings.
Vast majority of KMC is false, less than a handful argued against me. Also appeal to majority is a fallacy in itself.
Where did I say Odin would be killed by the Godblast? By feats, Odin would be hurt if he took a Godblast. No one with any real knowledge of either character would deny this. Localized and focused power attacks =/= colleteral damage. Just because high end focused attacks such as an Omega Effect, or Odin Force amplified Mjolnir throw, or Krona Buster, or Voidtry's molecular manipulation don't blow up a planet doesn't mean their power is any less potent. Planets are also far less durable than heralds when it comes to their material. Them being bigger and composed of much greater mass doesn't change that. And for the record, your argument was ridiculed by not just me and the vast majority of KMC because you somehow think the likes of RKT couldn't hope to effect WBH directly, which is one of the most deluded thoughts ever posted on the matter.
You are correct, we need proof that those localized blasts exceed that of WBH's collision power. We just can't assume it. Collateral damage proves force and power and thus we have proof of what WBH can withstand. But what about RKT? Do we have proof that he can dish out more power (localized or not) than what WBH tanked? Forget the planet, the planet being destroyed wasn't even one billionth of the feat. The planet was a speck of dust to what the real feat was. It was all the beings that were disintegrated that made the feat, not the planet. Even if RKT can disintegrate all those beings at the same time with a single blast then he still can't manage to apply more than billions of times that. WBH took on the force of more than billions times more than the force that disintegrated all those beings. Again you were appealing to status and name, not actual feats, to say my argument is faulty. It is what you are arguing against now. Think about it.
It is PIS because it creates a huge and gross contradiction in Comics and that is Thor>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Odin+Asgard+Destroyer. It is the clearest example of PIS. Remember a feat can be so high end that it becomes PIS.
How is the Exitar showing PIS? It's an extremely high end feat for Thor using the Godblast, which in of itself, is an extremely high end attack for Thor to begin with which dwarfs virtually everything else in his powerset, in spite of its smaller scale.
-Thor's blasted a hole and effectively neutralized Zelia with a Godblast.
-He cracked Exitar's dome with it (you not liking it doesn't make it PIS, especially when beings such as Thor have a history of performing absurd high end feats normally outside of their "tier"😉.
-He provided enough energy to uphold 1/4 of Marvel's multiversal walls of reality from collapsing.
-He scared off Galactus who was in fear for his life.
-He forcibly warped two beings who rival Odin in power into another dimension.
-He slew the Midgard Serpent by channeling his life force and Mjolnir together as one.The fact that we're arguing against Thor's Godblast seriously phucking up Zeus is insane.
1st feat is where we must first prove her minimum durability. But we can use the benefit of the doubt. I would give her high trans or low skyfather durability without needing feats of durability from her.
2nd feat is PIS and not usable per forum rules. Has nothing to do with what I like but the definition of PIS.
3rd feat had nothing to do with a Godblast in itself or at least the offensive power of it. Plus it is unquantifiable. Who knows how much energy is needed to do that and how much was used in conjunction to Thor's force. Mjolnir has vast energies on it's own.
4th feat isn't enough to proof to show GB can kill Zeus. If you read carefully, no one here ever denied the GB would damage Zeus. Everyone agrees to that. But when anyone says kill him then that's a different story.
I'm not claiming anything here. I'm just pointing out faulty reasoning. You are right though, we also need feats of durability for Zeus. You are more of an expert than me. Do you know of any? I read in Zeus official bios that he can reform his entire being even if his molecular structure is separated. If it is reasonable to give Zelia the benefit of the doubt on her durability then it is reasonable to give Zeus the benefit of the doubt on having nigh control over his being. That means that if he isn't killed then he can repair instantly and be as good as new within a few moments.
And until someone posts a durability or recovery feat from Zeus to justify him being okay enough to handle a grossly amped Thor in H2H, there's no reason to dismiss on-panel evidence in favor of "Well, it doesn't sound right for Thor to ever beat Zeus because he's a skyfather".
Originally posted by Damborgson
So anyway, it'd be arguable whether or not Zeus even survived getting hit with the godblast. If we say he survives, he will most certainly not be in condition to fight an amped to the teeth Thor. There really is nothing more to it.
Originally posted by h1a8
It still wasn't all of his power. That's moot anyway so let's drop it. Yes the OF can amplify durability but we don't know how much it amped hers (if any). Each character is different. We can't use feat sharing now. But we can give her the benefit of the doubt and say her durability is trans level or above without seeing actual feats but we are not obligated to do so. Plus you are weighing that feat too much in comparison to Thor's other GB feats. IMO this should be weighed no higher than any other of his GB showings.Vast majority of KMC is false, less than a handful argued against me. Also appeal to majority is a fallacy in itself.
You are correct, we need proof those localized blasts exceed that of WBH's collision power. We just can't assume it. Collateral damage proves force and power and thus we have proof of what WBH can withstand. But what about RKT? Do we have proof that he can dish out more power (localized or not) than what WBH tanked? Forget the planet, the planet being destroyed wasn't even one billionth of the feat. The planet was a speck of dust to the real feat it was. It was all the beings that were disintegrated that made the feat, not the planet. Even if RKT can disintegrate all those beings at the same time with a single blast then he still can't manage to apply more than billions of times more than that. WBH took on the force of more than billions times more than the force that disintegrated all those beings. Again you were appealing to status and name, not actual feats, to say my argument is faulty. It is what you are arguing against now. Think about it.
It is PIS because it creates a huge and gross contradiction in Comics and that is Thor>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Odin+Asgard+Destroyer. It is the clearest example of PIS. Remember a feat can be so high end that it becomes PIS.
1st feat is where we must first prove her minimum durability. But we can use the benefit of the doubt. I would give her high trans or low skyfather durability without needing feats of durability from her.
2nd feat is PIS and not usable per forum rules. Has nothing to do with what I like but the definition of PIS.
3rd feat had nothing to do with a Godblast in itself or at least the offensive power of it. Plus it is unquantifiable. Who knows how much energy is needed to do that and how much was used in conjunction to Thor's force. Mjolnir has vast energies on it's own.
4th feat isn't enough to proof to show GB can kill Zeus. If you read carefully, no one here ever denied the GB would damage Zeus. Everyone agrees to that. But when anyone says kill him then that's a different story.
I'm not claiming anything here. I'm just pointing out faulty reasoning. You are right though, we also need feats of durability for Zeus. You are more of an expert than me. Do you know of any? I read in Zeus official bios that he can reform his entire being even if his molecular structure is separated. If it is reasonable to give Zelia the benefit of the doubt on her durability then it is reasonable to give Zeus the benefit of the doubt on having nigh control over his being. That means that if he isn't killed then he can repair instantly and be as good as new within a few moments.
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