Originally posted by -Pr-
you would have to prove that Superman's flight gives him any more assistance than say his shoulder, his back or his leg when he throws a punch.
Originally posted by Igniz
Superman's feats of moving objects in space involves more powers than just one.I would say strength,speed,durability and flight.Of all this 4, flight would be the most important.
Originally posted by -Pr-
If I didn't have legs I'd have to use my arms to pull me around... 😬
mhmm
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Hmmmm.Can the Flash replicate what Superman does? Say if you had a massive weight...500tons or so....I highly doubt that the Flash could push it along as easily as Superman. Or at least, it has never been depicted to that extent.
And seeing as both their thrusts are near enough equal (as seen by their races), it must be the power of Supes' arms which enable him to do those feats of strength.
Or am I being stupid?
See prior and present image attachments.
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Source: Adventures of Superman #436, Volume 1
Writers: John Byrne & Jerry Ordway
Penciller: Jerry Ordway
Date: January 1988
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http://dc.wikia.com/wiki/Adventures_of_Superman_Vol_1_436
Hmm. I've forgotten: whenever using KMC as image host provider (IHP), one can never post 2 messages in a row with similar text and expect image attachments to come out right.
The most recent will replace the former and eliminate the first message entirely, not "stack" as a series is supposed to.
Anyway, the 2nd image should be the following, not what actually displays now when you click on it, which was actually the 3rd image in my series ...
Originally posted by Batman-PrimeI thought about the 3rd Law a while ago when it came to Superman's punching power while in flight but I dismissed it.
You forget Newton's 3rd law of motion. So when he flies and pushes with his arms, the force has to be countered with his flight again. So in effect, everything he pushes with his arms needs the same amount of "flight-power".vin
I once believed that Superman's flight most likely goes against the 3rd Law. Otherwise he wouldn't be able to pull a planet forward since he will need something to pull against. So I doubt that pushing with his arms affect the flight in any way since the flight is immune to the 3rd law. But I could be wrong since I don't completely understand the mechanics of his flight. All I know if that he seemingly has nothing to push against to propel him forward.
Maybe Superman's flight is pushing against some invisible unmovable source or nothing at all. If nothing at all, then bye bye 3rd law. For know, I'll except the invisible unmovable source in which the flight pushes off. That way we keep the 3rd law and Superman is providing 100% of his punch force due to his muscles, not flight.
I'll think about it some more though. Good one!
Originally posted by Igniz
Without Flight, Superman would be dangling in space the way the Hulk did at one time.However I would say that Superman's feats of moving objects in space involves more powers than just one.I would say strength,speed,durability and flight.Of all this 4, flight would be the most important.
Originally posted by h1a8
I thought about the 3rd Law a while ago when it came to Superman's punching power while in flight but I dismissed it.I once believed that Superman's flight most likely goes against the 3rd Law. Otherwise he wouldn't be able to pull a planet forward since he will need something to pull against. So I doubt that pushing with his arms affect the flight in any way since the flight is immune to the 3rd law. But I could be wrong since I don't completely understand the mechanics of his flight. All I know if that he seemingly has nothing to push against to propel him forward.
Maybe Superman's flight is pushing against some invisible unmovable source or nothing at all. If nothing at all, then bye bye 3rd law. For know, I'll except the invisible unmovable source in which the flight pushes off. That way we keep the 3rd law and Superman is providing 100% of his punch force due to his muscles, not flight.
I'll think about it some more though. Good one!
I think you cannot dismiss it because it's fundamental. And you don't have to.
Consider this possibility. Superman exhibits a force/power we call flight, he also exhibits a force/power we know as strength. They are two different powers and he needs energy for both. When Superman flies and lifts something or moves a planet he exhibit the necessary force with his strength alone, his power of flight however exhibits the same amount of force and thus works like a "standing" ground. His body provides in such a case the energy to lift/hold two planets or two times the weight. However, if he wants to push/move something over a distance he doesn't have to do it with strength, as he is already "lifting/holding" the mass, his power of flight has to exhibit the necessary force to "move" the ground he is standing at, metaphorically speaking. So in effect, his flight exhibits a force much greater then the weight of a planet, every time he is moving one. Which also means his body provides energy enough to move an much greater mass then the planet.
sneer
Originally posted by bluewaterrider
mhmm
Yeah, that was John Byrne, when his powers worked a completely different way.
Not valid, and has been stated so before.
Originally posted by psycho gundam
i forget the picture exactly but i'm certain there is one of superman pulling a planet with a construct strapped around his torso. if that doesn't tell you guys anything, i don't know what will
Yes, Superman pulling the Earth along with Hal.
Originally posted by -Pr-
Yeah, that was John Byrne, when his powers worked a completely different way.Not valid, and has been stated so before.
Would appreciate seeing that statement, and the evidence that supports it.
For I distinctly remember having the following exchange with you:
you're essentially talking about different characters over the course of the years, P.R.
John Byrne Superman, for instance, is from a Krypton where, apparently, there was a genetic failsafe in the population. Leave Krypton and you die.
Would it be possible to have any other Kryptonian from such a place?
The presence of other Kryptonians means that you had to drastically change the rules of how Superman and related beings operate.
Wonder Woman? Her hands are bleeding from her own rope in that scan Delta shows, merely from trying to resist the force of something that cannot so much as un-moor a signpost.
Can there be any relation between that woman and the one that we're shown in JLA several years later pulling the entire planet EARTH back into orbit?
There are many other examples like that, exposing inconsistencies that can't really be used to support the idea that character x in 1982 is character x in 1992 is character x in 2002 is character x in 2012.
But these characters are fairly stable for more limited periods, usually defined by what creative teams depict as normalcy for that era.
More on this later.
That's not how dc looks at it though. From 1986 until 2011, it was the same guy. Yes, there were retcons to an extent, but it was all still the same man at the end of the day.What you're talking about is writing inconsistencies, but then again that's why we sort through it to get a general idea of a character's power level.
The Superman in 2010 on New Krypton is the same Superman that fought Superboy Prime in IC. That Superman is the same Superman that fought Imperiex's forces during Our Worlds at War. And so on and so forth.
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=525118&pagenumber=39
Yes, I know my own posts. And I know that Superman's powers have shifted over the last twenty odd years even when he's been the same guy. From John Byrne "my powers work by willpower" Superman, to Blue and Red, to T-VO, and then to the last showings of the pre-reboot one.
It's the same man with the same experiences, but not the same powers. And mods had ruled on this quite a while ago, too.
John Byrne's Superman's powers work differently to pre-reboot Johns/McDuffie/Busiek/Loeb Superman. It's just how it is.
if you need more information, I suggest reading The John Byrne run on Superman; they're pretty blatant about how his powers work, which differs quite a bit from what came later.
Originally posted by -Pr-
I suggest reading The John Byrne run on Superman; they're pretty blatant about how his powers work, which differs quite a bit from what came later.
I think that would only make the problem worse, assuming the following is Byrne from the artwork (biensalsa shared this so I don't know the issue number)
Originally posted by -Pr-
I suggest reading The John Byrne run on Superman; they're pretty blatant about how his powers work, which differs quite a bit from what came later.
Yeah, again, assuming that what Salsa gave me here was Byrne pre whatever changes you're alluding to, I don't think reading his run would help.
Quite the opposite.
It's showings of flight proven to work DIFFERENT for Superman than what Byrne shows here that I need to see:
Originally posted by -Pr-
His powers being shown to work radically differently isn't enough for you?
To be honest, I'm a little haunted by the memory of what you did in the Superman/WorldBreaker thread, P.R.
You were talking the same way then, trying to pull a fast one on Carver.
I assumed you really did not know who was in the following scan, if you recall ...
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/97/prime5jb.jpg/
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... for you responded to Carver with the following:
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-Pr-
...
Gender: Male
Location: Canada. Calgary.
Moderator
Prove it was Prime.
And no, that wasn't the Sinestro Corps tie-in.
Jun 26th, 2012 05:20 PM
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... but when I responded with this, thinking you were earnestly seeking an answer ...
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http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=441406&pagenumber=2
Check for Galan's image link on the page the above takes you to.
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... you seriously shocked me by responding with the following:
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-Pr-
...
Gender: Male
Location: Canada. Calgary.
Moderator
Originally posted by bluewaterrider
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/...mp;pagenumber=2Check for Galan's image link on the page the above takes you to.
...Thanks for ruining that for me. 🙁
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http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=566770&pagenumber=13
... which wouldn't have bothered me except someone called you on it ...
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Diesldude
Senior Member
Gender: Unspecified
Location: United States
quote: (post)
Originally posted by -Pr-
...Thanks for ruining that for me.
I think I did too and stayed quiet after that. But now since the cat is out of the bag, i have to ask, are you really that confident in carver's [lack of expertise]? Like you didn't think he would ever find out what you did? And if that's the case how many other times have you done this before? Poor carver..
Jun 27th, 2012 09:06 AM
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=566770&pagenumber=14
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Got to say, it's rather alarming to see some of the same symptoms here, you going along with a member or members bashing Carver ("Fool's gold?"😉, asking someone to prove a point that seems evident by the comics, saying there is a counter but not producing one, referring to a mod ruling but not giving a link, though that normally seems to be standard operating procedure for you...
On top of all that, this is the first time I've seen you in disagreement with Bada. I'm sure that's happened before, but I myself don't recall seeing it.
And one thing alone would be one thing; but, all of these together ...?
As it is, though, the only thing I know significantly different about Byrne Superman is that 2000+ era Superman did not come from a Krypton where leavers of the planet suffered a quick death.
A lot of his powers still seem to operate the same way, superstrength feats still seeming to require a great deal of mental will and perhaps even some sort of tactile telekinesis (which would go a long way explaining Connor Kent, by the way). For instance, Superman can pick up massive objects that SHOULD collapse under their own weight.
Or push objects that surface area laws say he should bore straight through based on pressure.
Assuming you're right about any change, in fact, I WOULD genuinely like to know how the writers you're thinking of explained these 3 facets of Superman. Muscular strength alone wouldn't do a good job of explaining ANY of these things ...
