Maul bro's run a gauntlet

Started by Arhael2 pages

For one: You are ignoring the fact that Kenobi is probably the best defensive fighter in the galaxy at this point. Sure, Dooku could get through his defenses, but thats what Makashi does.

No, that's what Dooku does, not Makashi. There is no such thing as one style above other. Wielder makes the fight, not style.
And I thought you argue in favour of Kenobi. Since AotC he improved as much as Anakin. I seriously doubt Dooku would be able to overcome his defenses without Force attacks, not after perfo

Mastery increases connection to the force which increases the power of that basic force push.

Yes, he can muster powerful Force push.

But can he anticipate a Force push? Can he predict, when opponent is going to throw one? Can he put up Force barrier before it hits him?

Both Maul and Dooku explicitly demonstrated that he can't. It's a skill he lacks. He managed to put up resistance against Anakin in time. But Anakin is not skilled in offensive Force use and in rage he was much more predictable.

Wait a minute, you guys realize all I am saying is that he will give them trouble, correct? Not that he would win?

I don't really care enough to debate that he could win, because he can't.......

Anyways, mastering styles will give you a significant advantage. Especially if its Makashi, and you are fighting a Soresu user, as the premise of their style will be wasted (making opponents waste energy) and Makashi excels at breaching their defense.
The style makes a good part of the fight with technical forms like Makashi.

Wait a minute, you guys realize all I am saying is that he will give them trouble, correct? Not that he would win?

I don't really care enough to debate that he could win, because he can't.......


Yes, it would be difficult fight for them.
You argued that Kenobi would be more likely to resist brother's Force attacks, so I felt need to argue against that.

Judging on Kenobi's combat feats: overwhelming brothers with Jarkai, stalemating enraged Anakin in such a prolong fight and later defeating Sharad Hett, I consider Kenobi by all accounts to be immensely powerful. However, as I said he lacks skill in Force defence.

By the way I think Kenobi can still overcome Force attacks of either of them in one on one fight as he wouldn't need to direct entire effort on lightsaber fight. He would be more likely to put up Force defense like with Anakin and probably will take advantage of surroundings. Even in fight against both brothers Maul's Force choke didn't incapacitate Kenobi. Also, Maul Force blasted Kenobi because of getting enraged. Without brother being hurt he wouldn't be able to muster such a powerful Force attack.

Anyways, mastering styles will give you a significant advantage. Especially if its Makashi, and you are fighting a Soresu user, as the premise of their style will be wasted (making opponents waste energy) and Makashi excels at breaching their defense.
The style makes a good part of the fight with technical forms like Makashi.

No, advantage of Soresu is not wasted against any style. If Dooku won't get tired, then Kenobi won't get tired either. And Dooku still can get tired. While he uses less energy, his stamina is nowhere as high as Anakin's or Kenobi's.

Sometimes I practise with wooden sword. And I assure you that swordfight is 10 times simpler than grappling and ammount of techniques is so low that it doesn't matter what style you engage.

In SW all sword techniques come from first two Forms: two-handed techniques from I and one-handed - from II. Other Forms bring nothing more than phylosophy, except Ataru that gives acrobatics.
As proof look at fight of Kenobi and Anakin. Kenobi taught Anakin all moves, the way they fought looked exactly the same, they even executed several moves in parallel perfectly mirroring each other. The only difference was that Kenobi fought defensively giving ground, while Anakin - offensively. Dooku doesn't know a single technique, Kenobi doesn't.

Anyway whatever is your opinion about styles, assuming that Dooku can penetrate defenses of Kenobi, when Maul and Opress couldn't do it combined, doesn't make sense at all.

I am fairly certain that in some sourcebook or another it mentions that Makashi is the direct counter to Soresu, but I don't care enough to check XD

Anyways, its mostly that Soresu relies on taking advantage of your opponents aggression and tire them out. Then you kill them. However, with Makashi, the long-distance fight is in their favor, as Makashi was made for lightsaber combat. Therefore, Soresu is at a distinct disadvantage.

Originally posted by Pwned

Anyways, its mostly that Soresu relies on taking advantage of your opponents aggression and tire them out. Then you kill them.

Makashi can be used in a very similar way.

But Soresu uses both hands to fully parry the blow, whilst Makashi deflects and redirects powerful blows off in a different direction, and does this one handed. It also concentrates on foot work to use quick dodges and movements.

They're both very difficult forms to overpower once fully mastered.

They have a tough time at 1, then get taken down at 2.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
Makashi can be used in a very similar way.

But Soresu uses both hands to fully parry the blow, whilst Makashi deflects and redirects powerful blows off in a different direction, and does this one handed. It also concentrates on foot work to use quick dodges and movements.

They're both very difficult forms to overpower once fully mastered.

This is true. I am of the opinion that Soresu is much better designed for deflecting a lot of strikes very rapidly, while Makashi is for fencing.

Anyways, its mostly that Soresu relies on taking advantage of your opponents aggression and tire them out. Then you kill them. However, with Makashi, the long-distance fight is in their favor, as Makashi was made for lightsaber combat. Therefore, Soresu is at a distinct disadvantage.

I can give as example box.
Boxers have many different styles. Some fight defensively, some offensively. But neither style is above any other.
If we put boxer against kick boxer, then obviously second style is superior. However, kicking is a different range of skill. If kick boxer is restrained to do punches only, then he won't have any advantage over boxer. Same with swords, neither will have advantage over other as it is the same range of skill.

Back to Dooku.

What makes you think that Dooku relies on strength less than Anakin or any other characters? It says that Makashi lacks kinetic energy but it is because one-hand is not as strong as two hands. The difference is that Anakin uses strength and Force to generate bone-crushing swings, while Dooku - to push lightsaber out of the way in order to open guard of opponent. For Dooku using strength in right direction is what makes it possible to out duel opponent. No strength = no good technique to overcome defence. So, Dooku will get tired, if he tries hard to penetrate Kenobi's defence.

Look at AotC. Dooku won Kenobi by overpowering him with saber lock. He won because of direct strength contest. He opened Kenobi's guard because of superior strength.

But we both know that Kenobi became more skilled and much stronger since.