Originally posted by abhilegend
I've said everything I had to say and Blair is the one of the most knowledged poster on GLs. Your opinion and clumsily drawn conclusions don't make me wrong. Try harder.
You're right, it's the comic that makes you wrong. I don't have to try. I just quote the comic and it speaks for itself. Your position requires not only a ridiculous assumption, but adding something that isn't there.
Originally posted by Odekahn
You're right, it's the comic that makes you wrong. I don't have to try. I just quote the comic and it speaks for itself. Your position requires not only a ridiculous assumption, but adding something that isn't there.
Originally posted by abhilegend
The comic stated that a guardian powered kalmaaku had to create a fake kryptonite construct to pull the fears out of superman's mind. There was no mention of it being real kryptonite and neither was any mention of it affecting superman on a physical level. Statements like "Superman knows I can do this and wrap his fist in his cape to stop kryptonite radiation" are plain idiotic to use against what was shown on panel. Hal has never created kryptonite and that's it.
The problem is that I'm not using that against anything. You are. Im not the one struggling for proof. in fact, you provided it for me. It's quoted right there and you are saying its fake with nothing to back it up.
Originally posted by Odekahn
The problem is that I'm not using that against anything. You are. Im not the one struggling for proof. in fact, you provided it for me. It's quoted right there and you are saying its fake with nothing to back it up.
Originally posted by abhilegend
I don't have to prove its fake, the comic shows it. Anyway hal hasn't made kryptonite, can we move on from this topic?
How does the comic show it's fake? Show me please.
Here's the dialogue Blair provided...
"It would be our duty to use any means necessary to stop him. I've been doing studying - and I think I've figured it out. In some ways, it was sort of easy....After all, it IS green. Kryptonite is the key.
Problem is, he knows I can do this. He'd be ready to counter. He'd wrap his fist with his cape, or some such thing -- But still, Superman is afraid of Kryptonite. Really afraid of it. He can't stop those split-second feelings. So I'd turn that into a weapon. The kryptonite is bait to pull out his fear...the ring does the rest.
In an instant, he'd be swarmed over by the things he feared most. Probably wouldn't make sense to anyone watching. But to him, it would be his nightmares given form...it would be horrible."
-------------------------------------------------
Here's the part I want to look at...
"Problem is, he knows I can do this. He'd be ready to counter."
What is this? Well let's look back up...
"Kryptonite is the key."
Now let's look at "he knows I can do this."
Superman KNOWS that a GL can create kryptonite. And thus why he starts the sentence with "Problem is" and ends with " He'd be ready to counter."
So GL decides that he will use Superman's fear as a weapon since Superman would foresee the use of kryptonite against him.
This really is clear as day.
Originally posted by Odekahn
How does the comic show it's fake? Show me please.Here's the dialogue Blair provided...
"It would be our duty to use any means necessary to stop him. I've been doing studying - and I think I've figured it out. In some ways, it was sort of easy....After all, it IS green. Kryptonite is the key.
Problem is, he knows I can do this. He'd be ready to counter. He'd wrap his fist with his cape, or some such thing -- But still, Superman is afraid of Kryptonite. Really afraid of it. He can't stop those split-second feelings. So I'd turn that into a weapon. The kryptonite is bait to pull out his fear...the ring does the rest.
In an instant, he'd be swarmed over by the things he feared most. Probably wouldn't make sense to anyone watching. But to him, it would be his nightmares given form...it would be horrible."
-------------------------------------------------Here's the part I want to look at...
"Problem is, he knows I can do this. He'd be ready to counter."
What is [B]this
? Well let's look back up...
"Kryptonite is the key."Now let's look at "he knows I can do this."
Superman KNOWS that a GL can create kryptonite. And thus why he starts the sentence with "Problem is" and ends with " He'd be ready to counter."
So GL decides that he will use Superman's fear as a weapon since Superman would foresee the use of kryptonite against him.
This really is clear as day. [/B]
Originally posted by abhilegend
I've already dissected that dialogue.
No, you've attached assumptions to it. Mind boggling ones at that.
Suffice to say superman believing something is real and fearing it doesn't makes it real, just like in the case of protex.
Superman doesn't believe it's real. He KNOWS it's real. If Superman didn't know that GLs could create Kryptonite he wouldn't fear their ability to do so beforehand and he also wouldn't be ready to counter it.
Also, a construct isn't the same as an illusion. An illusion isn't there, it's all in the person's mind.
There war no indication that "green glowing rock" was kryptonite
Except for the part where it's stated to be kryptonite? "Kryptonite is the key"
and it was explicity a lure to bait superman. Just in the following panels superman was completely fine but incapacitated by his fears.
No, he knew Superman would be ready to counter the use of kryptonite, but he decided to use kryptonite anyways because he knows Superman fears it and he would still be able to get a reaction out of Superman.
Unless you can point me to anything that says it was real kryptonite and not a fake kryptonite to bait superman as stated in the comic, its not kryptonite.
The dialogue proves it. GL says that he'll use Kryptonite against Superman, and that Superman knows GL can do so. It's plain as day. You are the one desperately trying to add that it wasn't real kryptonite because you know GLs ability to create such is a giant tally in his favor and against Superman.
When Lex Luthor uses Kryptonite, he doesn't say "real kryptonite" he just says kryptonite. The only time you'd say whether it was real or fake would be if it was fake. Otherwise you'd just say kryptonite. Just like as shown.
Just use your mind, how does wrapping superman's fist in his cape a counter for kryptonite radiation?
He doesn't say that's the ultimate counter, GL is just saying that he'd try to counter it in some way.
"He'd wrap his fist with his cape, OR SOME SUCH THING"
He's not saying what Superman would definitely do, he's just anticipating.
You said hal can create kryptonite, show your proof.
No need, you provided it for me.
Originally posted by OdekahnNo.
No, you've attached assumptions to it. Mind boggling ones at that.
Superman doesn't believe it's real. He KNOWS it's real.Laughable.
If Superman didn't know that GLs could create Kryptonite he wouldn't fear their ability to do so beforehand and he also wouldn't be ready to counter it.Just like protex, huh? What an amazing counter?
Also, a construct isn't the same as an illusion. An illusion isn't there, it's all in the person's mind.Nobody said its an illusion.
Except for the part where it's stated to be kryptonite?Where?
"Kryptonite is the key"To bring out his fears.
No, he knew Superman would be ready to counter the use of kryptonite,Hal is a dumbass if he thinks that.
but he decided to use kryptonite anyways because he knows Superman fears it and he would still be able to get a reaction out of Superman.He didn't use it in the first place and it wasn't real.
The dialogue proves it.No.
GL says that he'll use Kryptonite against Superman, and that Superman knows GL can do so. It's plain as day.That proves nothing at all.
You are the one desperately trying to add that it wasn't real kryptonite because you know GLs ability to create such is a giant tally in his favor and against Superman.Lulz, you are the one trying desperately to rationalize this because without this GLs stand no chance. I'm not going to bother anymore.
When Lex Luthor uses Kryptonite, he doesn't say "real kryptonite" he just says kryptonite. The only time you'd say whether it was real or fake would be if it was fake. Otherwise you'd just say kryptonite. Just like as shown.Red herring. Dominus and La encantadora has both used fake kryptonite to bring superman's fear out, its nothing new.
He doesn't say that's the ultimate counter, GL is just saying that he'd try to counter it in some way.Superman can't counter kryptonite otherwise he would do the same everytime. Hal is a dumbass.
"He'd wrap his fist with his cape, OR SOME SUCH THING"Lulz.
He's not saying what Superman would definitely do, he's just anticipating.Then hal is a dumbass.
No need, you provided it for me.Pre-rebirth scans don't apply for GLs, this wasn't a GL in the first place. Your desperation is amusing however typing the same thing over and over hoping it would prove something. Try again or don't. I'm not interested anymore.
Originally posted by Blair Wind
Captain Atom = Red Sun radiation
Firestorm = Krytonite
Green Lanterns = whatever the hell they wish, so long as they can will it. And if the central computer knows the information, they can utilize that knowledge.Doesn't matter anyways, Hal traps them all in his ring and plays as God.
Superman wins. It'd be between the big 3, with MM coming out victorious amongst the others, whilst Superman is tied up with WW. I think we all can agree out of all of them, he'd take the longest to defeat her, in character.
But then the final is between MM and Superman.
J'onn would fall to his HV, and it'll all be over.
^ J'onn can phase through heat vision, and has before on-panel. This kind of bruhaha, it's impossible to tell who'd win. People arent supposed to team up against others per the OP, but the characters not gunning for the most formidable, e.g., Supes, Wondy and J'onn, would be foolish and not in character. Supes unfortunately has the easiest weaknesses to exploit, and that is an enormous obstacle to overcome. Him still being in the running is a testament to his formidability, not an episode of lowballing. You've got, arguably, 2 guys who can use kryptonite, 2 guys who can use red sun radiation, and a chick with magical weapons that havqe proven to be enogh to bring him to heel (if not straight down).
Superman shouldnt be in the running for most likely to win. Thats just not realistic. If he does, itd be a miracle.
Originally posted by -Pr-Why wouldnt they? I can see an argument being made that most of the League would consider J'onn more dangerous, but even then, a greater number of Leaguers can utilize Superman's weaknesses than they can J'onn's.
Of course it's realistic, unless we're assuming that everyone on the team thinks Superman is the most dangerous.
Superman's just the more obvious target. Comes with the reputation.
Originally posted by ODG
Why wouldnt they? I can see an argument being made that most of the League would consider J'onn more dangerous, but even then, a greater number of Leaguers can utilize Superman's weaknesses than they can J'onn's.Superman's just the more obvious target. Comes with the reputation.
Even if they did, they're still supposed to fight in character per the OP.
Firestorm could turn entire buildings in to Kryptonite, but he won't.
Originally posted by ODG
^ I was undder the impression that Firestorm has resorted to using kryptonite against kryptonians often. He'd be an idiot not to. But that's on him frankly.
He used it against Prime, but then again, they were trying to put Prime down pretty severely. If he's just trying to KO Superman, I don't see him using any large scale Kryptonite attacks, as that might be a bit OTT.
There is, however, the issue of reaction times. Atom and Firestorm can be caught out with a speed blitz. Superman often uses speed against dangerous opponents, especially since, like you said they can create red sun/K-nite etc.
Sure, they and GL could try and take out Superman as he is fighting WW. But as its a free 4 all (and I agree, its a nightmare to plan out), MM could take them out when they're trying to take Superman out. Then when he's done, Superman has (maybe) beaten WW - then it would be between the two of them. Or Supes sees MM still fighting GL, uses HV when he's distracted, then goes after GL. Etc etc. Or WW beats Superman, then...yeah, many many possibilities.
I just see Supes/WW being the obvious possibility, and the others scrapping amongst themselves.