Odin vs the God emperor of mankind.

Originally posted by Horrificus Way to start your post with an insult! Kudos to you. But, since you also said "sorry", you must not be as much of a di*k as you seem to be.

I'm sorry to say that my opinion of your knowledge of the Warhammer 40,000 universe was only strengthened by this post.

Actually, you are much more sure of your opinion than you should be.

I am sure because I am right.

Keep in mind, I never said that the Emperor could defeat Odin. I was just saying he is powerful and tough to quantify.

He's fairly easy to quantify actually.

His physical power is said to be comparable to that of his Primarchs, whom can take country busting attacks and survive and punch mountains to pieces, as well as being hypersonic in perception and reaction-time.

His powers in terms of pure destruction should be at least sufficient enough to raze a planet, as Magnus the Red has done.

His powers in the Warp are roughly on par with Chaos as a whole, who are galactic in scale.

First of all, "the galaxy" has always been the stage that gets presented by the 40k mythos, rather than "universal". There is plenty of written fluff that points to chaos being "behind" the entire universe. And, some of the most recent books allude to it and will be delving even more into it, as new story lines travel outside of the galaxy.

Prove Chaos is universal. No recent book alludes to it in any meaningful way.

Also, I should note that I probably won't accept really outdated fluff.

Chaos is present as the stories do this and will be so even more so in the future.

Tyranids, who come from outside of the 40k galaxy, although being a relatively new race, (in relation to other races), have a pre-existing enmity against the forces of chaos, stemming from before they ever even entered the galactic plane.

Prove Tyranids have a history with Chaos from outside the galaxy. The Tyranids don't have "enmity" for anything, they are a primal force.

Even if the recent fluff about the War in Heaven is true, it only means that it helped with the most recent development of chaos gods, forming from the potential energy of the warp. There were other races before the Necron and possibly even the Old Ones, or WITH the Old Ones. So, the war with the Necron does not seem to be the most likely beginning of the chaos gods.

The fluff is in fact so recent that it originates from three editions ago!

"The growing pains of the young races threw the untapped energies of the warp into disorder. War, pain, and destruction were mirrored in the bottomless depths of the sea of souls. The maelstrom of spirits unleashed in the carnage coalesced into the previously formless energies of the Warp."
- Necron 3e codex, page 26

This was when Chaos was born. Also, this is not out of date, the 5e Necron codex references such.

Older material though points to the Chaos GODS being born only as early as about 1300s, and notably, they were formed by the psychic energy of humanity for the most part. Some universal force.

NEVER has it ever been stated that chaos would swallow "only" the galaxy. It could swallow the galaxy, but nowhere does it state that it would be localized there.

That's all that is stated. It didn't state the universe. Just the galaxy. Hey look you're making an unfounded assumption.

Nowhere does it say that he was getting his ass kicked by the Dragon until he found it's weakness.

lol

So I take it you haven't actually read Mechanicum?

The Emperor's spear shattered against the living metal scales of The Dragon, and the Emperor's armour was ripped apart and he was impaled and in the process of being squeezed to death before he stabbed the Dragon in a weak spot, IIRC under the left wing. Also the Dragon was weakened and starved, having been sleeping after being hit by a fleet of Blackstone Fortresses.

You don't see the Emperor psychically dueling with Galactus. Well, that's your opinion, which happens to be without value in my book. But, that's MY opinion.

But mine clearly has more value than yours.

Your opinions about Odin walking into the warp and stomping, and Gork and Mork being more powerful than the chaos gods, is just your opinion. If anything, Gork and Mork might have equal power to the 4 chaos gods, but instead of it being divided amongst for gods, it is divided amongst the two, Gork and Mork.

lol

Gork and Mork are explicitly stated to be "divine powerhouses", whom are immune to the attacks of the other gods within the Warp, aka, the Chaos Gods. Oh, and then there's that the old Titanicus book states that when Gork and Mork were roused and began projecting their power throughout the Materium the corpse god's eyes shot open in fear.

All of your opinions about the other primarchs, power levels and Horus, have nothing to do with my post.

That was to Uriel. It isn't always about you babe.

My point, alluding to the power of Horus when he battled the Emperor, was that all 4 of the chaos gods were channeling there power into him. This is what elevates him to unheard of levels. THIS is the character that I am talking about.

Odin would have finished the job. Chaos wouldn't exist had he been there on Horus's battle barge.

To ignore all of that power, placed into one being, kills your entire argument.

You haven't provided shit to make me believe that Chaos as a whole can rival Odin.

And, come on. Don't try low-balling the Emperor with me. I am a big Odin fan, as lots of forum members will attest to. Odin, like all other characters, has low showings also. The Emperor having a problem with a Gork/Mork empowered Warboss, while his powers are being distributed amongst trillions of other humans throughout the galaxy, is not a bad showing. Especially, since 40k space orks have always been shown to be able to tap into unlimited Gork/Mork knowledge, power, magic, etc, when it is needed.

"lowballing the Emperor" lol.

I don't give a shit if you went to Japan so that you could legally marry Odin, the problem is that you lack knowledge on 40k.

The Emperor's power was being distributed to trillions of humans throughout the galaxy. The Astronomicon, which I hope you were referring to, is actually powered by ten thousand trained psykers, with the Emperor directing that power. Now, while this seems like an incredible feat of haxness, consider that Magnus the Red, "merely" a Primarch, can replicate this feat. And what does that have to do with the Emperor being injured by plasma and struggling against an Ork? That just means that he can't direct his full psychic might at any given time.

This is before he was the corpse god. Oh, and Horus killed that Ork, saving the Emperor. And beat many many more Orks like it during that battle.

Finally, as I was saying in my previous post, unlike the characters in Marvel or DC, usually the Emperor and the chaos gods are known for dispersing their power and influence amongst an uncountable number of beings. The battle between Chaos Amp'd Horus and the Emperor is one of the only times all of that power was brought to center on two combatants. And, that has always been crucial to the entire story of that climactic battle. It was the end game and they were all letting it all hang out.

Oh, this may make you sort of sad, but Eye of Terror's portrayal of Greater Daemons in the Eye of Terror is now outdated. An'ggrath the Unbound, one of the mightiest of all Bloodthirsters, if not the mightiest, is not even nearly that powerful in the Eye of Terror going by Aurelian.

And that's all nice. Shame that by feats Odin would spank Chaos and the Emperor.

At best you could argue that Emperor's soul and telepthic abilities may be greater, but that doesn't compensate for being vastly outclassed in strength, speed, durability, and raw power.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Have no idea; haven't played or read up on the Warhammer series.

If that is true, though, he's going to be wasted by Odin.

Actually, the quote is that the blast fired by the Emperor, alleged to be his full might in one attack, was "more focused than a laser and more powerful than a supernova".

Ignoring the idiocy in using lolnarrative hyperbole as a feat, even if we take that shit at face value, that power, the kind that made the Chaos Gods flee Horus in fear, doesn't paint a picture of Shuma Gorath level beings.

We're dealing with really low tier Skyfathers at best. I personally could see the likes of Superboy Prime ripping the Emperor in half and shitting down his chest cavity, but hey.

You guys are such geeks.

Originally posted by Horrificus
Well, I don't want to get into the whole Odin vs Elder God thing.

And, I understand what you are saying about Odin's feats and psychic ability. I'm just playing devil's advocate here, pointing out some hints of what the Emperor has.

Again, able to match against all 4 chaos gods, pretty much for 10's of thousand of years.

Battling them to a standstill in their home dimension itself, which is probably about equal to facing 4 Shuma Gorath entities in their own dimension.

Defeated Horus while he was charged with the power of all 4 chaos gods at once.

Psychic feats include the fact that his psychic beacon can be tapped and followed anywhere in the galaxy and anywhere in the warp.

Guides and empowers trillions of humans throughout the galaxy and the warp in many different ways.

But, like I said before, it is hard to really match them up.

The Emperor has to be fed sacrificed human psykers constantly to maintain his struggle against Chaos, he would have died long ago if not for that.

Sorry but no, they aren't Shuma Gorath level.

Originally posted by NemeBro
The Emperor has to be fed sacrificed human psykers constantly to maintain his struggle against Chaos, he would have died long ago if not for that.

Sorry but no, they aren't Shuma Gorath level.

I, on the other hand, have taken a more intelligent, logical and sane approach, simply stating what has been written, commenting on the fact that it can be kind of vague and difficult to equate to comic book terms.

If you can refrain from being a dick and simply reference which books you are pulling your opinions from, I could probably understand your view better, or maybe be able to argue against it.

Simply throwing out your opinions and occurrences that you have read, with no point of reference is just abrasive. Not dominating.

It's too bad too. You sound like you read a lot of 40K stuff. It could have been cool to hear more from you.

For the Greater Good

I gave you several sources.

Are you illterate?

You haven't supported a single thing you've said, haven't even mentioned what book(s) you pulled your opinions from.

I can't recall the exact page or chapter I've read some of this in, but I also don't physically have the book of many of these sources, and finding a lot of them online again after the GW internet download purge of 2011 is quite the *****. I went through the trouble of finding the oldcron codex and typing down a quote and page number from it.

Your sour grapes are self-evident, you don't have any counter.

Oh, but I can tell you where the Emperor being choked like a ***** is from: Horus Heresy: Betrayal, page 81. It slipped my mind that I do in fact have that book downloaded. My apologies.

I can't see how the Emperor can win, after reading all that Nemebro provided.

I found out that the emperor made a blast that was stronger than a supernova, and that made the chaos gods run, kill Horus, and put him in the vegetable state he is now.

That's only if you take the narrative at face-value.

I certainly don't.

Originally posted by NemeBro
That's only if you take the narrative at face-value.

I certainly don't.

You contradict yourself in your posts. You are also clearly looking to be confrontational, simply for the sake of being confrontational.

You even quoted my post where I state that I am not saying that the Emperor could beat Odin. Then, you go on to insult. Obviously, that third testicle and extra Y chromosome are giving you a bit of trouble.

Also, you state that I haven't given any sources for the feats and comments I have listed. Yet, you go on to dismiss it as narrative and hyperbole. Which is it genius? Do you, or do you not know about the feats and situations I have posted? Because, if you don't, you obviously should not be dismissing it as anything, until you look into it first hand. And, if you do know what I am talking about, why are you asking for sources?

Also, you have already stated that you are only going to accept recent fluff, for some reason. Obviously, that is not how things work in this comic book forum, so why would you think that was a logical approach?

Regardless. You don't have to worry. I will be posting books, pages, etc. Just so everybody can see you disregard what has been written in actual books and fluff. I will enjoy that very much.

Then, after that, we can move onto how the idiocy in using YOUR lolnarrative hyperbole as a feat is somehow more solid than the idiocy in using lolnarrative hyperbole as a feat by people who disagree with you.

Personally, I would imagine that you have only been reading 40k material since the Horus Heresy books and your complete LACK of older fluff has you running crazy homo searches in google, playing catch-up, hoping to find good arguments that will cover up the fact that you are a 40k newbie. 😄

Google, google, google little guy! 🙄
Maybe if you join a couple 40k forums, you might make some pals that will help you.

"Hi. I'm new to this warhammer forum, and this is my first post. Can any of you other members please tell me about the emperor and chaos gods from before the horus heresy books? Please. You see, I talked out of my ass and now I am in the sh*t. Need help."

I see you now, grabbin up 40k torrents, speed readin, scannin, sweatin'! Ha!

You better do better than that. There are roughly 30 years worth of stories and fluff, that you seem to know nothing about, or didn't seem "worthy" of your attention.

Good luck.

Originally posted by TheGodKiller
A similar claim is made by Odin's peers as well.

Fact is that man created Odin and all the other godly pantheons in both Marvel and real life.

In every origin told in the last two decade that I can think off of the top of my head, Odin and his father/brothers predate man and even the Earth recently. Perhaps the Universe depending your interpretation of Fraction's reton.

And this isn't some bed time story, we saw how literal it was in JMS', Fraction's, Gillen's flashbacks etc. unlike the other pantheons.

Asgard obviously has the most claims for creating man/earth and the strongest ones out of the Earthly pantheons but the God Council seemed to agree that they could always create more humans if the Serpent destroyed so perhaps it was a joint effort.

The Elder God origin retcon in the 80's makes shit even more confusing but that hasn't been relevant in a long time, particularly to Asgard and the World Tree. Wonder how Pak's retcon of Gaea fits into all of this.

Anyways, it's a bit of a mess.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
In every origin told in the last decade that I can think of, Odin and his ilk predate man

And this isn't some bed time story, we saw how literal it was in JMS', Fraction's, Gillen's flashbacks etc. unlike the other pantheons.

Asgard obviously has the most claims for creating man/earth and the strongest ones out of the Earthly pantheons but the God Council seemed to agree that they could always create more humans if the Serpent destroyed so perhaps it was a joint effort.

But, does that sound familiar at all?

Pantheon? What Pantheon? Asgard?

Back in the 80's Roy Thomas retconned Asgard's history heavily, mostly for introducing the Celestials into the Marvel Universe. Basically the current Asgardians were created by a single Odin 1500 years ago after he's Asgard died from Ragnarok.

I think that might be what you're talking about. Thankfully all of that shit was promptly ignored/retconned by Walter Simonson when he came on as the next consistent writer. And he was right to do so, because it was stupid shit.

Originally posted by Horrificus
Well, it's a good thing that your opinion is absolutely useless. I tried to be civil.

Your not being civil at all dude. You are just calling everyone that disagrees with you a dick.

Guys, chill with the insults. Anyways, it seems to me this is a fairly even match, regarding Horrificus posts.

Originally posted by Whiteclipse
Your not being civil at all dude. You are just calling everyone that disagrees with you a dick.

And, if you can't back up what you just posted, just stay silent.

I simply pointed out, to one forum member, that he was being a dick for no reason. Not because he disagreed. But, because he riddled his posts, from the very first post in this thread, where he addressed my statements with insult.

Originally posted by NemeBro
Yeah... This is all mostly bullshit, sorry.

Appearing in a thread and starting your argument with an insult is not going to endear a member to anybody.

And, there was no reason for it.

So, I tried to be cool a couple times, then gave up. Period.

I'm not even arguing who wins or loses. I was simply posting some fluff and excerpts from the books. I have been reading 40K novels since they started writing them and have White Dwarf mags going back about 20 years.

As members might back me up with, when it comes to knowing, scanning and archiving old sh*t, I am pretty solid. And, when somebody comes along, debating in a hostile manner, while clearly they only have solid knowledge about more recent books, I don't have time for it.

It's not my problem if a kid just started reading comic books and novels in the last 6 years. Thanksgiving is here and some people should just eat their turkey at the Kiddie Table.

Originally posted by Horrificus
Well, it's a good thing that your opinion is absolutely useless. I tried to be civil.

It truly doesn't matter.

Four gods who can be driven off in fear by an attack merely more destructive than a supernova means nothing.

You contradict yourself in your posts. You are also clearly looking to be confrontational, simply for the sake of being confrontational.

Point out where I contradicted myself.

You even quoted my post where I state that I am not saying that the Emperor could beat Odin. Then, you go on to insult. Obviously, that third testicle and extra Y chromosome are giving you a bit of trouble.

Blublublub.

Also, you state that I haven't given any sources for the feats and comments I have listed. Yet, you go on to dismiss it as narrative and hyperbole. Which is it genius? Do you, or do you not know about the feats and situations I have posted? Because, if you don't, you obviously should not be dismissing it as anything, until you look into it first hand. And, if you do know what I am talking about, why are you asking for sources?

Hurrr...?

Originally posted by The Merchant
Didn't a force that was stronger than a supernova make Emperor the vegetable he is now?

This is the first mention of that specific quote, which you didn't bring up.

Now you're taking credit for other people's posts?

And do note that that quote only hurts your point, not helps it.

Also, you have already stated that you are only going to accept recent fluff, for some reason. Obviously, that is not how things work in this comic book forum, so why would you think that was a logical approach?

I said I wouldn't accept outdated fluff, aka fluff that is no longer valid, like much of 3e Necrons, or 3e Grey Knights. Or Magnus the Red being a literal cyclops in older material.

Regardless. You don't have to worry. I will be posting books, pages, etc. Just so everybody can see you disregard what has been written in actual books and fluff. I will enjoy that very much.

By all means, try to do so.

Then, after that, we can move onto how the idiocy in using YOUR lolnarrative hyperbole as a feat is somehow more solid than the idiocy in using lolnarrative hyperbole as a feat by people who disagree with you.

Point out where I have used narrative hyperbole.

Personally, I would imagine that you have only been reading 40k material since the Horus Heresy books and your complete LACK of older fluff has you running crazy homo searches in google, playing catch-up, hoping to find good arguments that will cover up the fact that you are a 40k newbie. 😄

You're such a crybaby.

Cry some moar girly.

But no, I've read older material than the Horus Heresy series.

Google, google, google little guy! 🙄
Maybe if you join a couple 40k forums, you might make some pals that will help you.

I've been a member on DakkaDakka for a while actually.

"Hi. I'm new to this warhammer forum, and this is my first post. Can any of you other members please tell me about the emperor and chaos gods from before the horus heresy books? Please. You see, I talked out of my ass and now I am in the sh*t. Need help."

Hey look! Someone's whining on crying on the internet!

I see you now, grabbin up 40k torrents, speed readin, scannin, sweatin'! Ha!

You better do better than that. There are roughly 30 years worth of stories and fluff, that you seem to know nothing about, or didn't seem "worthy" of your attention.

Good luck.

Stop mewling like a little girl and prove the Chaos Gods are as powerful as you say they are, or shut the **** up.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
In every origin told in the last two decade that I can think off of the top of my head, Odin and his father/brothers predate man and even the Earth recently. Perhaps the Universe depending your interpretation of Fraction's reton.

And this isn't some bed time story, we saw how literal it was in JMS', Fraction's, Gillen's flashbacks etc. unlike the other pantheons.

Asgard obviously has the most claims for creating man/earth and the strongest ones out of the Earthly pantheons but the God Council seemed to agree that they could always create more humans if the Serpent destroyed so perhaps it was a joint effort.

The Elder God origin retcon in the 80's makes shit even more confusing but that hasn't been relevant in a long time, particularly to Asgard and the World Tree. Wonder how Pak's retcon of Gaea fits into all of this.

Anyways, it's a bit of a mess.

As far as the Elder Gods are concerned, don't forget Chaos War and how it impacts the history of Earth's Gods.

Originally posted by NemeBro
It truly doesn't matter.

Four gods who can be driven off in fear by an attack merely more destructive than a supernova means nothing.

Point out where I contradicted myself.

Blublublub.

Hurrr...?

This is the first mention of that specific quote, which you didn't bring up.

Now you're taking credit for other people's posts?

And do note that that quote only hurts your point, not helps it.

I said I wouldn't accept outdated fluff, aka fluff that is no longer valid, like much of 3e Necrons, or 3e Grey Knights. Or Magnus the Red being a literal cyclops in older material.

By all means, try to do so.

Point out where I have used narrative hyperbole.

You're such a crybaby.

Cry some moar girly.

But no, I've read older material than the Horus Heresy series.

I've been a member on DakkaDakka for a while actually.

Hey look! Someone's whining on crying on the internet!

Stop mewling like a little girl and prove the Chaos Gods are as powerful as you say they are, or shut the **** up.

You are a kid with a crappy attitude. A 40K newbie and you only know a fraction of the fluff and written matter out there.

I am not going to educate you.

But, here is a tip: Read MORE books. Stop basing your entire arguments on the Horus Heresy series alone.

And, you really should not be going up against any members that show even a hint of 40K Veteran status.

Thanks for wasting my time.