Revan vs. Starkiller

Originally posted by Arhael
Revan is arguably the dumbest person in entire EU.

Originally posted by Arhael
From beginning he thinks that he is more clever than Jedi Masters that have decades more experience and launches his own movement against Mandalorians, which resulted in hell lot of Jedi becoming Sith as result.

Unbeknownst to the Sith Emperor, a promising Jedi (Revan) rose to challenge his plans; Revan understood the gravity of the situation and decided to help the Old Republic against the Mandalorians. Now I want you to answer following questions:

1. Isn't the purpose of the Jedi Order to enforce peace and justice in the Galaxy or am I wrong here?

2. Unfortunately, the vastly experienced Jedi Council was watching the events (mass murders) like silent spectators; why? Hadn't the Jedi Order won in the previous big conflict: The Great Sith War? Did this victory not boost its morale?

3. The Jedi Order had no responsibility in protecting the Old Republic (the ruling society which harboured it)?

Like any sensible Jedi, Revan first approached the Jedi Council for permission to help the Old Republic in defeating the Mandalorians. He was refused. But unlike the vastly experienced Jedi Council Members, Revan was a visionary and he realized that the Old Republic will fall to the schemes/agendas against it. (Hint: check the KOTOR comics and other canonical sources to get an idea about how the Mandalorians were pounding the Old Republic left and right.); Mandalorian the Ultimate was a brilliant tactican and not a madman. Admiral Saul Karath had his hands full and he needed help from another brilliant tactican to turn the tide of the war. This is where Revan came in to the picture; he was natural in this game and very powerful as well. Once he joined Karath, the tide of the war began to turn and you know the rest.

Originally posted by Arhael
Instead of finding peaceful solution he went for mass slaughter, which as result created likes of Nihilus, responsible for destroying entire planet and annihilating nearly all Jedi.

Originally posted by Arhael
After Mandalorian war he starts investigation, sounds alright. But on discovering Sith world instead of ringing on Republic alarms he decides to put his apprentice and himself in danger in ridiculous attempt to handle problem themselves. No surprise that they got mind raped and became creators of new Sith empire on their own.

Soon after the defeat of Mandalore the Ultimate, the sudden discovery of a powerful Sith Empire - during the course of the investigation and pursuit of the Mandalorian remnants - was a shocker; the Sith were assumed to be extinct after the Great Sith War but here was a whole Empire which lay undiscovered in the unknown regions for a long long time. Revan had just finished one war and it was not advisable to declare war on another powerful society without adequate preparation. Due to this reason, Revan and Malak decided to assassinate the Sith Emperor underhand; a move which would throw the Sith Empire in to chaos and would be much easier to defeat.

Originally posted by Arhael
It's amazing that the most powerful Jedi of that time also happened to be so weak minded, to get mind raped and then get mind wiped by Jedi.

As far as the mind-wipe is concerned; Revan was in comatose state after the betrayal from Malak. However, mind-wipe eventually failed because Revan's memories recovered with passage of time.

Originally posted by Arhael
Then at last he did something good: saved half ruined Republic from the threat he unleashed himself.

Originally posted by Arhael
But then he got bored.

Originally posted by Arhael
And started something he shouldn't have: investigation.

After all, a champion of the light doesn't falls so easily:

Something had happened to him and Malak beyond the Outer Rim. They had gone to defeat the Mandalorians, but they had returned as disciples of the dark side. The official story was that they had been corrupted by the ancient power of the Star Forge, but Revan suspected there was more to it. And he knew it had something to do with his nightmares.

Revan eventually realized after a couple of years that the threat to the Old Republic was not over with the end of the Jedi Civil War. Though he was not yet clear about its nature and this is why he started his investigation.

You must understand that Revan was not a coward but an icon and the champion of light. Cowards prefer to flee from the challenges instead of facing them.

Originally posted by Arhael
Before that he gave out location of Mandalorian mask, so they could rebuilt and defend republic. Is he MAD? Whenever Mandalorians helped republic?

"I think I need something more than killing and fighting in my life. I need a purpose or something like that." (Canderous Ordo)

But Revan had more in mind:

Canderous possessed the necessary talents of being a worthy leader of the Mandalorians and he could make Mandalorians strong once again and support the Old Republic against the suspected threat that still remained. Revan realized that the Old Republic was very vulnerable after the Jedi Civil War. If its enemies would learn about this vulnerability and decide to exploit it; the Old Republic will be doomed. So Revan needed all the help he could get to ensure that his may not happen.

Originally posted by Arhael
No wonder that they are on Empire's side in TOR.

Also, you forgot that Mandalorians helped the Old Republic against the Sith Triumvirate under the leadership of Canderous (Mandalore the Preserver during this time. Canderous specially helped in bringing Nihilus down. Thanks to wise decision by Revan.

Originally posted by Arhael
Then he remembers Sith location but instead of consulting Jedi again he thinks that he can handle anything. And what then? Again he gets captured...

Also, Revan hadn't completed his investigation when he got captured. He had yet to rediscover Dromund Kaas.

Any sane leader would never start a war without proper information of the enemy and adequate preparation.

In addition, the Old Republic was severely weakened after two major wars. It wasn't prepared for another major war yet.

On a personal note: I think that you (Arhael) do not have mind of a tactician or planner but at least you can use common sense.

Originally posted by Arhael
Then Exile gives him third chance to make it right. And of course he does it wrong again. Instead of going back to Republic to ring alarm bells he tries to take down Vitiate again.

Please re-read SWTOR Revan novel.

Originally posted by Arhael
And on entrance he politely left his comrades behind, why would he need them? He is so awesome that he doesn't need anyone to handle some old Sith.

Originally posted by Arhael
Of course he gets handled again. Exile died and Republic is still in the dark that there is danger in unknown regions.

As a plot device, this makes sense due to Revan being an iconic figure and he wouldn't have stopped in his effort to bring down the Sith Emperor whenever given the chance. But his story had to be linked with that of TOR.

I understand that many fans feel that TOR ruined Revan' story. However, I personally believe that both koTOR 2 and TOR undermined Revan' story.

Originally posted by Arhael
Getting captured three times by the same Sith, he must be really "unordinary Jedi" to fail so much.

Hist first capture was by Karath; his second capture was by Nyriss; and his third capture was by Vitiate.

If Revan' (captured) history amuses you; here is a better example:

Count Dooku was once captured by a band of criminals/scum. This holds true for Anakin, Kenobi and Luke.

Luke got captured several times by different individuals during the course of his life.

Originally posted by Arhael
Then JK wakes him up only to get assassinated by a random Sith, what a waste.

Originally posted by Arhael
Same goes for Drew Karpshyn's books. His characters look so much more powerful than any characters in other books because he made them to look like that.

Specially Revan's fight with Nyriss is bad@ss; short but epic.

Originally posted by Arhael
Apparently not much considering that her lightning is "inventively" weaker, than Vitiate's.

Nyriss' signature FLS was deadly enough to incinerate above-average (powerful) Force-wielders simultaneously.

Neither Scourge and nor Meetra were actually defenceless against Force Lightning. They easily tolerated bursts of Force Lightning which were lethal enough to reduce normal people in to smoking husks in a second or two. However, Nyriss' signature FLS was immensely lethal.

As far as Vitiate is concerned; he is THE MASTER of the Force - capable of pushing boundaries.

Originally posted by Arhael
Star Destroyer will always be size of Star Destroyer.

But you are not getting my intended point. Sometimes, feats - not big in sheer scale - require incredible power to pull off.

As an example: some debators often claim that Dooku needed more effort to block every single lightsaber blow from angry Anakin then he needed to overwhelm the defences of Kenobi and rip apart and throw large objects at him. If this claim is true then it supports my point.

Originally posted by Arhael
However, even Sidious' lightning couldn't make a single burn on Windu's skin, nothing comparing to charring to ashes instantly. It's not hard to distinguish a hyperbole from realistic feat. Yes, yes. Marek's feat is realistic. He did it by prolonged channeling. Dorsk 82, for example, demonstrated FAT more impressive TK feat than just redirecting course of already falling ship.

Another example is from Luke; when he decided to manipulate a small blackhole - he sat down on a chair and fully concentrated on doing this feat alone. He was not in a combat situation during this time.

We have yet to see what Revan can do with full concentration. However, his accomplishments aren't small.

Originally posted by Arhael
Vitiate dominated hundreds Sith lords, consumed entire planet, casually handled Revan who casually handled Nyriss. And then... lost to a Jedi Knight on his own territory in the middle of darkside nexus. Even more well thought out. :👆:

Originally posted by Arhael
Let's see.
Revan by deflecting lightning bolt back at Vitiate puts him on his ass. Then instead of using the momentary advantage like a retard waits until Vitiate stands up, charges up and pawns him.

Revan knew he was gathering his power to unleash a swirling storm of pure dark side energy, just as Nyriss had done. The Jedi quickly calculated his options. Realizing he couldn't close the gap between them quickly enough to stop the assault, he gathered his own energy and spread his hands before him, ready to catch and absorb the Emperor's attack. (SWTOR: Revan)

Originally posted by Arhael
In comparison Marek engaged Sidious after wasting power on defeating Vader.

Revan engaged Malak after wasting power on defeating Bastilla and an army of droids. Heck, he engaged Bastilla after wasting power on Sith forces before reaching her position. In spite of all of this waste of power, he was victories in the final encounter and on Star Forge nonetheless.

Originally posted by Arhael
In cut-scene partially blocked his lightning with lightsaber, partially dodged it and than Force handled Sidious with TK and had him at his mercy. And after he refused to strike him down and Sidious unleashed his lightning again Marek still resisted it unlike Revan and stalemated Sidious until explosion.

Sidious initially pretended to be defenceless because he wanted to turn Marek to dark side (He used similar strategy against Luke later on.) When Sidious realized that Marek wouldn't turn; then the former got serious and stopped the latter with his Force Lightning barrage.

I am not saying that Marek wasn't capable of Force-pushing Sidious or whatever; however, the duel gets interesting when both are hell bent to destroy each other.

You should fool someone who knows little about TFU; not me.

Originally posted by Arhael
Logically Marek >>>>> Revan because Revan didn't Force handle the most powerful Sith Lord but got casually handled by another one instead.

In contrast, Revan' duel with another DARK SIDE MASTER was entirely serious. Revan did put Vitiate on his @ss TWICE. Not to forget that Vitiate was using his original body during this particular fight; peak strength and endurance.

-----------------------

I know you have been OWNED.

But the Force is strong with you. Become my apprentice and I will teach you well like I taught Neph.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
First, you've redeemed yourself in my eyes.

Second, you might as well give up. Like Sion, he will return inevitably after each beatdown. Unlike Sion, he can't be reasoned with.

Originally posted by Ascendancy
Holy logic, Batman! Where did this come from? I've never seen you post anything nearly this coherent before. I have on numerous occasions enjoyed pointing out that your byline is "Devoid of Reality" because of the inanity that you usually post. Well-played, sir!

On a side-note, Darth Bane is the ultimate and all other Sith are bantha poodoo. *Dons Force-enhanced flame suit*

And I thought that both of you were capable of using common sense and among the better debators. 🙄

But of-course, hatred gets the better of judgement. EPIC FAIL.

Galen takes it.

Majority decides Starkiller wins and, to be honest, I agree. A lot of people like Revan just because of his armor and his Sith history. But he didn't take out three Jedi Masters in a matter of days, nor have the accompaniment of two companions, and there's a major point that a lot of you forgot. This is ''STARKILLER'', the clone, not GALEN MAREK. Starkiller was already deemed more powerful than Galen ever was, and many considered the original Galen Revan's equal. I loved Revan the first time I played KotOR, but a lot of that had to do with non-canon choices. I don't see Starkiller falling to the Emperor's Wrath and Malavai Quinn. Revan is one of my most symbolic idols, yes--but Starkiller wins.

I just read a lot of these comments--this thread became a ''Hate on Starkiller'' thread.

Starkiller wins, but Revan, who could likely beat Vader, gives Starkiller the fight of his life, and nearly kills him.

Originally posted by Rookwood
Starkiller wins, but Revan, who could likely beat Vader, gives Starkiller the fight of his life, and nearly kills him.

Originally posted by axel_jovan
mmm

With the Star Forge and the Force power of many Jedi, including a strong, fast body, he would be on par with Vader or possibly above him.

And Revan beat that Malak, as well.

I'm surprised I'm having to explain it to someone, like it's rocket-science. 😛

Should already be easy enough for most to readily know and understand.

I see what you did there… mmm

Let me employ your analytical method:

Revan beat Darth Malak, who, even with the Star Forge wasn’t likely close at all to Vader in power.

With the Star Forge and the Force power of many Jedi, including a strong, fast body, he wouldn’t even be on par with Vader, rather, he was still beneath him.

And Revan beat that Malak, but that doesn’t prove he’ll give trouble to Vader.

I'm surprised I'm having to explain it to someone, who carries himself as a rookwood rocket "surgeon" (or whatever) on these boards 😛

Should already be easy enough for most to readily know and understand.

Spoiler:
I’m just joking. But I’m serious.

Originally posted by axel_jovan
I see what you did there… mmm

Let me employ your analytical method:

Revan beat Darth Malak, who, even with the Star Forge wasn’t likely close at all to Vader in power.

Interesting, so what you're saying is: Vader's body, which was perceived to be damaged at the cellular-level after Mustafar, and quoted by George Lucas as being weaker than his true potential - is more powerful than an already powerful Sith, with the added power of the absorbed power of numerous captured Jedi, throughout the Star Forge.

And you think he still isn't at least close in power?

So utilizing my analytical method, you've just proven, you can't do math. Awesome. 😛

Originally posted by axel_jovan

With the Star Forge and the Force power of many Jedi, including a strong, fast body, he wouldn’t even be on par with Vader, rather, he was still beneath him.

Unlikely.

And also unlikely that having extremely-amped Force abilities and a stronger, healthier body wouldn't make a difference in a fight.

I'm sure Marek would disagree with that one. 😎

Originally posted by axel_jovan

And Revan beat that Malak, but that doesn’t prove he’ll give trouble to Vader.

Beating a powerful Sith, who is then amped with much greater power, after having to relearn much of his skills and abilities, proves that he'll give a lot of trouble to Vader.

Originally posted by axel_jovan

I'm surprised I'm having to explain it to someone, who carries himself as a rookwood rocket "surgeon" (or whatever) on these boards 😛

😆 You think "Rookwood" means surgeon?

I'm inclined to believe "Axel Jovan" means "Smooth-Retard". 😆

I'm sure the doctors accidentally dropped you on your head when you were young, and you were like, "iiiittttbbb cwwoooovvvllloobbbdhfhezxxserewqwqooooooo 😎 "

Originally posted by axel_jovan

Should already be easy enough for most to readily know and understand.

Apparently not for you. 😆

Originally posted by axel_jovan

Spoiler:
I’m just joking. But I’m serious.

😛

Spoiler:
Oh, so you're just pretending to be Retarded? 😛

😆

Starkiller takes this by a fair amount.

Originally posted by Sybrael
Majority decides Starkiller wins and, to be honest, I agree. A lot of people like Revan just because of his armor and his Sith history. But he didn't take out three Jedi Masters in a matter of days, nor have the accompaniment of two companions, and there's a major point that a lot of you forgot. This is ''STARKILLER'', the clone, not GALEN MAREK. Starkiller was already deemed more powerful than Galen ever was, and many considered the original Galen Revan's equal. I loved Revan the first time I played KotOR, but a lot of that had to do with non-canon choices. I don't see Starkiller falling to the Emperor's Wrath and Malavai Quinn. Revan is one of my most symbolic idols, yes--but Starkiller wins.

You talk about Jedi Masters; have you ever seen Starkiller destroy an extremely powerful Sith Lord in the manner as Revan did? No.

Have you ever seen Starkiller give tough time to an opponent the calibre of Vitiate? No.

Just because Starkiller is better explored in the context of telekinetic abilities; doesn't makes him superior to Revan in combat.

Originally posted by axel_jovan
Let me employ your analytical method:

Revan beat Darth Malak, who, even with the Star Forge wasn’t likely close at all to Vader in power.

Originally posted by axel_jovan
With the Star Forge and the Force power of many Jedi, including a strong, fast body, he wouldn’t even be on par with Vader, rather, he was still beneath him.

Originally posted by axel_jovan
And Revan beat that Malak, but that doesn’t prove he’ll give trouble to Vader.

Hint:

Spoiler:
Darth Nyriss