The Joker vs Raoul Silva

Originally posted by Lestov16
He finds out Coleman is going to reveal Batman's identity. He plants a bomb in a hospital and threatens to blow it unless Reese dies. This is a diversion so he can use the panic to sneak into Dent's room, mindrape Dent into not killing him (and Dent had every reason to) and going on a rampage, escape, and take the newsreporters hostage, to reveal that the hospital bomb was just a diversion of itself to panic the citizens to get on the boats. He has 5 different plans, all of which are convoluted as hell and have no guarantee of success (as Dent could have just killed him), going off perfectly without a hitch [b] simultaneously.

As I said, could the joker have assassinated M if he so chose? Most def. Could Silva create all the destruction joker created in Gotham? Hells no. [/B]

-Coleman went on a public TV show, so that wasn't hard to deduce.

-People fleeing from a supposed bomb area isn't some masterstroke of planning. It's what would be expected.

-People getting on a boat (especially since traffic was jammed) trying to flee a city under the grip of a lunatic is also expected.

-The Dent thing just happened to work and it was a lame part of the story with just how easily Dent was turned. Took all of 5 minutes.

Of note: Joker's boat-bomb plan failed, neither boat pulled the trigger. Even turning Dent evil ultimately backfired, since Batman and Gordan pulled off their ruse and Dent died a hero.

Ergo, Silva wins this.

We don't know how the people's morale would have changed had Bruce not saved Reese. So had Reese died and the people's morale gone down, the boat situation may have ended differently.

Too bad his plan did work when Gotham found out about Harvey in TDKR and acted exactly as lawless as Joker predicted

You haven't proven how Raoul did anything more cunning that what Joker pulled off throughout the film. I can prove Joker could have assassinated M. You can't prove Silva could have terrorized Gotham on a joker-level.

Originally posted by Lestov16
We don't know how the people's morale would have changed had Bruce not saved Reese. So had Reese died and the people's morale gone down, the boat situation may have ended differently.

Too bad his plan did work when Gotham found out about Harvey in TDKR and acted exactly as lawless as Joker predicted

You haven't proven how Raoul did anything more cunning that what Joker pulled off throughout the film. I can prove Joker could have assassinated M. You can't prove Silva could have terrorized Gotham on a joker-level.

People in the boats didn't pull the trigger, period. Joker failed there.

LoL. That was because the city was under siege by Bane and locked down by the military. They also rallied at the end.

Except I did, his entire plan > Joker's.

LOL Silva's plan was no where near the Joker's.

Silva knew exactly where MI6 would relocate, exactly when Bond would catch him, where he'd be imprisoned, when M's hearing was, when Q would accidentally release him, when and where Bond would catch up to him, and when that train would pass by. All these impossibly timed steps meant to culminate in one single event. That's not perfect timing, that's psychic farsight. Everything lines up perfectly and it makes no sense unless he's psychic. Or if the movie isn't that great.

Joker's psychic powers aren't too obvious. He has great timing and a great sense of deduction, but nothing he did was impossible to predict. Most of the time he was the one determining the time things would happen--when Batman and Gordon leave the police station, when the cell phone bomb would go off, when the panic over Reese and the hospitals would begin. He initiated those at his own choosing and logically deduced the reaction it would have. It was a very good deduction, but not psychic.

And that's why the Joker's a far superior movie villain. As good as he is, he's not omniscient, and he still makes mistakes and misjudges. Silva didn't f*ck up once, he just got outgunned. That's boring.

Originally posted by Lestov16
LOL Silva's plan was no where near the Joker's.

Agreed. It was utterly above and beyond it in scope and ingenuity.

Silva had to come up with an overly-convoluted plan to do something that the Joker could do in his sleep.

Originally posted by Lestov16
And every other logical thinking person on the planet

Hire an assassin to steal a list of agents and blow their covers, so they will be killed This will get M in trouble

Blow up M’s office

send assassin to Shanghai to kill person as a way to get Bond to meet with Sévérine. She will eventually lead Bond to Silva’s techno-island, where he will be captured so he can leed m16 to you and get captured on purpose

Get put in cell, have M brought to him so he can make sure he has a quiet spot to explain his grudge and highlight his dental work Have Q attempt to decrypt his Trojan horse of a "master plan," which will release a virus that shuts down power and allows Silva to over power two guards sumhow?

Know that when this happens, Bond will come after him: Find the exact spot where Bond will catch up, and arrange for a subway train to fall on his head Dress up like a policeman and Barge into a crowded courtroom and shoot up the place, hoping to nail M

i love Silva and i love skyfall but a lot of Silvas Plan is CIS/PIS and is not going to hellp with the joker joker stomps him 10 out of 10

Note that for all the needless over-convoluted crap, Silva's plan was basically just a rip-off of Joker's mayor assassination plan.

Originally posted by Lestov16
He finds out Coleman is going to reveal Batman's identity. He plants a bomb in a hospital and threatens to blow it unless Reese dies. This is a diversion so he can use the panic to sneak into Dent's room, mindrape Dent into not killing him (and Dent had every reason to) and going on a rampage, escape, and take the newsreporters hostage, to reveal that the hospital bomb was just a diversion of itself to panic the citizens to get on the boats. He has 5 different plans, all of which are convoluted as hell and have no guarantee of success (as Dent could have just killed him), going off perfectly without a hitch [b] simultaneously.

As I said, could the joker have assassinated M if he so chose? Most def. Could Silva create all the destruction joker created in Gotham? Hells no. [/B]

Joker got outfoxed by one man with so-so detective skills, Raoul beat a freaking spy agency and predicting all their movements years in advance. And he's implied to be as good as Bond in hand to hand.

Originally posted by The Silent Hero
Yes he could have and did so. He turned a whole city into a ghost-town with a few keystrokes on his laptop.

Did he have the citizens terrified to the point that they were questioning their own humanity?

Originally posted by The Silent Hero
Joker got outfoxed by one man with so-so detective skills,

Whoa. Did you just downplay Batman?

Originally posted by The Silent Hero
Raoul beat a freaking spy agency and predicting all their movements years in advance. ,

Exactly. Silva took years to prep. Joker came up with his plan on the fly and still caused more destruction and anarchy than Silva ever did.

Originally posted by The Silent Hero
And he's implied to be as good as Bond in hand to hand.

Joker was no slouch. And we don't go off assumptions.

how is over power two guards off screen implieing he is as good as Bond?

I only vaguely remember Skyfall, but if I remember correctly, they mention that Silva was better at his job than Bond, but when Mi6 disavowed him and he got tortured it messed up his psyche. Am I making this up, or did that happen?

M said he was one of the best MI6 agents on record, but he did something to piss off China I think, and she gave him to them to placate them. And the torture combined with his cyanide pill not working drove him to revenge.

M is a *****.

It was a ****ed up thing but the right call.

That's what she wants you to believe.

better at his job on a laptop im sure but no way is he better 100% thin bond.

Joker loses in a straight up fight/shootout and it's pretty spitey. Planning tho... Idk. If Silva didn't have computers would he have been anywhere near as effective? Joker did all his plans without the leg-up cyberspace offers.

This is a straight up close confrontation battle with hand guns!

Not some planned long drawn out mastermind assault on each other.

Silva wins this. No contest.