Originally posted by DarkSaint85
The problem with hanging rigidly to your definitons, h1, is that you are trying to apply real world logic and definitions to comics.I might as well post this:
http://img40.imageshack.us/img40/6416/plutonian.jpgAnd say, well you know what? Plutonian has limitless strength and immeasurable speed. Whereas SBP still has limits, so he is like a gnat (if I look it up, limitless and immeasurable are much higher than any limits SBP may have).
Logic applies to comics, otherwise debating comics would be a waste of time.
And definitions always apply since we speak English (or the language the comic was written in).
lol many superheroes have been said to have those attributes (even Hulk). Doesn't mean they can reach infinity.
Originally posted by h1a8
The only thing that doesn't always apply is science (but it does sometimes).Logic applies to comics, otherwise debating comics would be a waste of time.
And definitions always apply since we speak English (or the language the comic was written in).lol many superheroes have been said to have those attributes (even Hulk). Doesn't mean they can reach infinity.
But you are now arbitrarily picking and choosing definitions. You first say definitions always apply.
I show you someone being described as limitless. You now say....what, that they aren't? Because your definition of limitless is different?
Am glad you brought up Hulk. He IS in this thread, but his powers are dynamic - he can ramp up and down, so that sometimes he's relatively weaker, and other times, he isn't.
Plutonian does not ramp up and down. Its not the angrier he gets, the stronger he gets. He is always that strong.
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
But you are now arbitrarily picking and choosing definitions. You first say definitions always apply.I show you someone being described as limitless. You now say....what, that they aren't? Because your definition of limitless is different?
I didn't pick and choose definitions. I used the ones straight from the dictionary. You are free to use any one that's relevant, as long as it's in the dictionary (this is to prevent you from making up your own definition of course).
If my strength grows at X pounds per second and if I'm immortal then clearly I have limitless strength. But that doesn't mean I can reach infinite strength (it would take infinite time which can't happen). It doesn't even mean I can reach 1 million tons before I'm stomped into the ground by someone who is much stronger.
Originally posted by h1a8
I didn't pick and choose definitions. I used the ones straight from the dictionary. You are free to use any one that's relevant, as long as it's in the dictionary (this is to prevent you from making up your own definition of course).If my strength grows at X pounds per second and if I'm immortal then clearly I have limitless strength. But that doesn't mean I can reach infinite strength (it would take infinite time which can't happen). It doesn't even mean I can reach 1 million tons before I'm stomped into the ground by someone who is much stronger.
OK.
If you read my paragraph, I was noting how Plutonian is not like Hulk at all. His strength is not dynamic.
Incidentally, TOAA isn't abstract.
He can physically interact with the FF:
http://i.crackedcdn.com/phpimages/article/4/1/8/36418.jpg?v=1
http://www.funnybookbabylon.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/02/kirby.png
Also, he has colour, which means he reflects light. So he has a physical surface.
Originally posted by h1a8
If you can move a planet FTL to another star system in no time then you have shown more than a solar system worth of power (actually beyond thousands of planets of masses). Majestic didn't do this.Hulk can have trans level strength. Doesn't make him a trans level being now does it?
Hulk never punched through time stream with pure strength, read the context. And neither did Red She Hulk.
I'm not talking about teams but leagues of herald level heroes, big difference. Also I'm not talking about teams but a bunch of herald level beings. The avengers only have a few herald level beings, if that.
LOL at comparing fighting the weak ass avengers over a plethora of herald level beings trying to stop you.
http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Hulk%20Strength/SavageHulkStrikingPower08135.jpg
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Incidentally, TOAA isn't abstract.He can physically interact with the FF:
http://i.crackedcdn.com/phpimages/article/4/1/8/36418.jpg?v=1http://www.funnybookbabylon.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/02/kirby.png
Also, he has colour, which means he reflects light. So he has a physical surface.
Originally posted by h1a8
Characters who are either abstract at all times or ones that can use a physical body to represent them (but it's not them) and where the harming that body does absolutely nothing to them.
Originally posted by carver9
http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Hulk%20Strength/SavageHulkStrikingPower08135.jpg
lol way to not read my post correctly.
There is something in front of Hulk to punch.
I can see if someone punched so hard that they did dimensional shit that wasn't there at all (like out of thin air).
Proof that its not him?
Remember in the Rock of Ages storyline, when Metron, an abstract god, was persuaded by Batman to give himself a material body.
Batman then one shotted him, and stole the Worlogog.
I know, you're now going to hold on to your definition that abstract is abstract.
But yet, somehow, limitless does not mean limitless...
Lol. We're going to hit a paradox here.
If an abstract is omnipotent (as the TOAA and the Presence are, and generally, abstracts in comics are all powerful).
If they wished to give themselves a physical body that would also harm themselves (for whatever reason), can they?
According to H1, they can't. Because abstract is always abstract.
But then, they can't be omnipotent, can they? Because they fail.
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Proof that its not him?Remember in the Rock of Ages storyline, when Metron, an abstract god, was persuaded by Batman to give himself a material body.
Batman then one shotted him, and stole the Worlogog.
I know, you're now going to hold on to your definition that abstract is abstract.
But yet, somehow, limitless does not mean limitless...
That was clearly a respresentation of TOAA. Do you think that if Reed would have shot him in the head dead that TOAA would be actually affected?
I didn't say limitless isn't limitless. I said it's irrelevant because limitless =/= infinite
The two are not comparable at all.
If Metron was abstract then Batman wouldn't have been able to physically touch him. Calling a black object yellow doesn't make it yellow.
Originally posted by h1a8
That was clearly a respresentation of TOAA. Do you think that if Reed would have shot him in the head dead that TOAA would be actually affected?I didn't say limitless isn't limitless. I said it's irrelevant because limitless =/= infinite
The two are not comparable at all.
If Metron was abstract then Batman wouldn't have been able to physically touch him. Calling a black object yellow doesn't make it yellow.
See my previous post about paradoxes.
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Lol. We're going to hit a paradox here.If an abstract is omnipotent (as the TOAA and the Presence are, and generally, abstracts in comics are all powerful).
If they wished to give themselves a physical body that would also harm themselves (for whatever reason), can they?
According to H1, they can't. Because abstract is always abstract.
But then, they can't be omnipotent, can they? Because they fail.
Omnipotent doesn't mean able to do all things.
Omnipotent means able to do anything logically possible.
Otherwise being Omnipotent is illogical and cannot happen.
It's logically impossible to be abstract and non abstract at the same time.
It's logically impossible to draw a square-circle.
But It is logically possible for human like beings to have wings and be able to fly (it's just factually impossible).
