Should stop at 1.
But the way Thor is portrayed for the last year, they stop at Sentry.
Also would anyone agree that Thor's stock has fallen to at least mid-herald? I mean he is consistently being treated like a punching bag - target practice.
From Thing punching him (and him missing for 2 pages) to random aliens KOing him with random guns while he hopes for Hulk to save his team.
Is it even worth the time to make a new Thor thread?
If you think the recent feats and fights which have occurred outside of Thor's own title over the past handful of months outweigh his entire history - or even just from when JMS brought him back to life - maybe. I mean, even in AvX, which wasn't the greatest to Thor, the guy resisted Emma and Rachel's telepathy, and hurt the Phoenix Force incarnate.
Doesn't even cover all the crazy bullshit Matt Fraction had his psycho Thor do in his own ongoing and in Fear Itself.
Originally posted by JakeTheBank
If you think the recent feats and fights which have occurred outside of Thor's own title over the past handful of months outweigh his entire history - or even just from when JMS brought him back to life - maybe. I mean, even in AvX, which wasn't the greatest to Thor, the guy resisted Emma and Rachel's telepathy, and hurt the Phoenix Force incarnate.Doesn't even cover all the crazy bullshit Matt Fraction had his psycho Thor do in his own ongoing and in Fear Itself.
Thor is probably my favorite Marvel character, but he is being treated like less than garbage, mostly making other characters look good on his expense.
If it was random happening, I'd say Thor wrecks this team without breaking a sweat and him being before Glads in a gauntlet would be laughable.
But sadly it's Marvel, not me, who thinks Thor is just a moderately strong brick with a hammer.
So under normal circumstances Thor would win this easily, but the last year-years are anything but normal for Thor.
Originally posted by comicfan11
Thor is probably my favorite Marvel character, but he is being treated like less than garbage, mostly making other characters look good on his expense.If it was random happening, I'd say Thor wrecks this team without breaking a sweat and him being before Glads in a gauntlet would be laughable.
But sadly it's Marvel, not me, who thinks Thor is just a moderately strong brick with a hammer.So under normal circumstances Thor would win this easily, but the last year-years are anything but normal for Thor.
Fear Itself happened in 2011. And we saw the shit that event had Thor doing.
So, at best, you could argue this hasn't been a great year for Thor in terms of formidability. Personally, I think it would be a bit silly to use this year alone to "demote" Thor because you'd have to ignore his ongoing as well as the good feats he does have in favor of a horrible event which saw Cyclops basically get character raped among other terrible things and Bendis being Bendis.
Basically, if you were to do an accounting of Thor's performances from '07 - the time he got brought back - up until now in an attempt to average it out, I don't see how anyone could think he's less powerful as a whole.
Personally, I'm more disappointed with the regression in character and personality more so than his feats for battleboards. Some of the best Thor stories ever written weren't whored out with feats.
Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Fear Itself happened in 2011. And we saw the shit that event had Thor doing.So, at best, you could argue this hasn't been a great year for Thor in terms of formidability. Personally, I think it would be a bit silly to use this year alone to "demote" Thor because you'd have to ignore his ongoing as well as the good feats he does have in favor of a horrible event which saw Cyclops basically get character raped among other terrible things and Bendis being Bendis.
It doesn't matter. It's in continuity.
That's the problem.
And also every feat count in a characters history.
And with Thor's current record, I don't see why these last few months shouldn't affect his overall record.
Marvel is sh1tting on Thor nearly on a weekly basis.
Why should I still consider him Marvel's top Herald, when Marvel doesn't think so, for an extended period of time?
Originally posted by comicfan11
It doesn't matter. It's in continuity.
That's the problem.And also every feat count in a characters history.
And with Thor's current record, I don't see why these last few months shouldn't affect his overall record.
Marvel is sh1tting on Thor nearly on a weekly basis.
Why should I still consider him Marvel's top Herald, when Marvel doesn't think so, for an extended period of time?
So are his other countless and more consistent feats.
His current record doesn't make his previous accomplishments mean nothing, not in terms of the versus forum nor by the rules - which mods have said we're supposed to use a character's optimal showings averaged out. So basically, Thor fighting at his best while remaining in character, barring his insane high end bullshit or low end feats.
Basically, you have to decide which holds more stock: decades worth of continuity and consistent showings or a single year in which Thor isn't the focal point (or a major one) unlike Siege and Fear Itself.
And then you'd also have to figure in Thor's actual ongoing series, in which he's consistently been a feat monster at the expense of his character.
Originally posted by JakeTheBank
So are his other countless and more consistent feats.His current record doesn't make his previous accomplishments mean nothing, not in terms of the versus forum nor by the rules - which mods have said we're supposed to use a character's optimal showings averaged out. So basically, Thor fighting at his best while remaining in character, barring his insane high end bullshit or low end feats.
Basically, you have to decide which holds more stock: decades worth of continuity and consistent showings or a single year in which Thor isn't the focal point (or a major one) unlike Siege and Fear Itself.
And then you'd also have to figure in Thor's actual ongoing series, in which he's consistently been a feat monster at the expense of his character.
The problem is consistency.
It's not a random happenstance. Marvel consistently makes Thor look bad. Simple as that.
And of course I consider his past average, BUT that doesn't mean a whole year of TERRIBLE SHOWINGS, will not affect his average.
Of course it will, and in a negative way.
Just like we can't ignore Thor's previous showings, we can't ignore his current record.
And the perception of Thor has fallen significantly on these boards also.
2 years ago, Thor could be last on this gauntlet, and nobody would complain.
Currently he is first, before Glads and Juggs, and it doesn't even seem noteworthy.
Originally posted by comicfan11
The problem is consistency.
It's not a random happenstance. Marvel consistently makes Thor look bad. Simple as that.And of course I consider his past average, BUT that doesn't mean a whole year of TERRIBLE SHOWINGS, will not affect his average.
Of course it will, and in a negative way.Just like we can't ignore Thor's previous showings, we can't ignore his current record.
And the perception of Thor has fallen significantly on these boards also.
2 years ago, Thor could be last on this gauntlet, and nobody would complain.
Currently he is first, before Glads and Juggs, and it doesn't even seem noteworthy.
Not really.
Have you been reading Matt Fraction's take on Thor? Honest question.
And it hasn't been a year full of "TERRIBLE SHOWINGS". That's a complete exaggeration.
I mean, if you're serious about these showings effecting Thor significantly enough to effect his overall standing, you'd have to take them all and compare them to everything else from not just this year, but the year before so on and so on. And you'd really have to ignore Thor's good feats and pretty much his entire ongoing and self centric books to get to the point that Thor should now be classified as a mid-herald.
Originally posted by JakeTheBank
I mean, even in AvX, which wasn't the greatest to Thor, the guy resisted Emma and Rachel's telepathy, and hurt the Phoenix Force incarnate.
His good showing against the Phoenix Force could also be argued to be either PIS(due to him getting overwhelmed by almost every single being hosting its power in that series at different points of time) or invalid/inconsequential(based on the Force's historically questionable durability).
Fraction's run is the only saving grace for Thor in recent times imo.
Originally posted by TheGodKiller
AvX isn't the best of examples to choose from. In that same series, Xavier telepathically incapacitated Thor, something which Spider-Woman was unaffected by. Does that mean that SHIELD tp shields>Thor's tp resistance?His good showing against the Phoenix Force could also be argued to be either PIS(due to him getting overwhelmed by almost every single being hosting its power in that series at different points of time) or invalid/inconsequential(based on the Force's historically questionable durability).
Fraction's run is the only saving grace for Thor in recent times imo.
AvX is one of the events which some think are primarily responsible for Thor looking bad. You can't pick out all the bad feats and ignore the good ones. Well, I mean, you could, but it would be stupid and make little to no sense to do so.
Not sure how Thor's showing against the Phoenix Force could be possibly argued as PIS but some of his lower showings being brought up aren't.
Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Not really.Have you been reading Matt Fraction's take on Thor? Honest question.
And it hasn't been a year full of "TERRIBLE SHOWINGS". That's a complete exaggeration.
I mean, if you're serious about these showings effecting Thor significantly enough to effect his overall standing, you'd have to take them all and compare them to everything else from not just this year, but the year before so on and so on. And you'd really have to ignore Thor's good feats and pretty much his entire ongoing and self centric books to get to the point that Thor should now be classified as a mid-herald.
I have not been reading Fraction's Thor regularly.
I usually check on issues in bundles, and I didn't have any inclination to do it thus far for Thor.
But every week I check on these (and other boards), Thor gets one shot by random lasers, strange horsemen, Thing, practically asks for Hulk to save him (and his team), etc etc.
I read some of the team books he is in but, not his own title in a while (or JTM)
So my counter question is, all of his bad showings, doesn't matter at all?
And yeah mid herald, might be too much, but his stock is falling to the point, where it is expected of him to suck. And Marvel, great parent company that it is, gladly obliges week after week.
Put it like this. During JMS run, would this thread even be made?
That's how you know a character's stock is dropping (or rising).
Originally posted by comicfan11
I have not been reading Fraction's Thor regularly.
I usually check on issues in bundles, and I didn't have any inclination to do it thus far for Thor.
But every week I check on these (and other boards), Thor gets one shot by random lasers, strange horsemen, Thing, practically asks for Hulk to save him (and his team), etc etc.
I read some of the team books he is in but, not his own title in a while (or JTM)So my counter question is, all of his bad showings, doesn't matter at all?
And yeah mid herald, might be too much, but his stock is falling to the point, where it is expected of him to suck. And Marvel, great parent company that it is, gladly obliges week after week.
Put it like this. During JMS run, would this thread even be made?
That's how you know a character's stock is dropping (or rising).
Well, no offense, but don't you think you should read a character's ongoing or a closely related book of his in order to seriously consider demoting him or arguing whether or not he should be? Yes, Avengers books count, but really, if the character is noteworthy enough to have his own title, that same title should have just as much, if not more relevance to that character seeing how it focuses exclusively on...well, that title character.
Random scans certainly help paint a picture, sure, but again, you'd have to check out Thor's ongoing to help finish that said picture.
Thor being knocked out by Badoon lasers and the like effects his standing in my mind about as much as Thor killing the Demogorge. Both are incredibly out there, albeit in different directions.
All one would have to do is look at Hulk for example. Look at all the WBH/Green Scar threads. And Pak's been off the title for some time. So obviously, single character ongoings play or should play a role in how a characters stock is perceived.
And yes, to answer your question, threads like these have been made during JMS' Thor.
Originally posted by JakeTheBank
AvX is one of the events which some think are primarily responsible for Thor looking bad. You can't pick out all the bad feats and ignore the good ones. Well, I mean, you could, but it would be stupid and make little to no sense to do so.Not sure how Thor's showing against the Phoenix Force could be possibly argued as PIS but some of his lower showings being brought up aren't.
Imo, it can very well be dismissed as PIS, because in the same series Thor got handled by no less than 5 beings that were being empowered by differing quantities of the Force's might(with even the arguably weakest incarnations of said hosts being able to defeat Thor relatively easily). But even if you discount that, I specifically mentioned that it can be either PIS OR invalid/inconsequential(based on the poor durability showings of Force in the past). Hurting/Injuring a being that has been shattered into a billion billion pieces by an arguably mid-herald(?) mutant doesn't seem all that impressive on Thor's resume if you ask me.
As I said before, Fraction's run is the only saving grace for Thor in recent times, a point I am sure you'll agree with me.
Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Well, no offense, but don't you think you should read a character's ongoing or a closely related book of his in order to seriously consider demoting him or arguing whether or not he should be? Yes, Avengers books count, but really, if the character is noteworthy enough to have his own title, that same title should have just as much, if not more relevance to that character seeing how it focuses exclusively on...well, that title character.Random scans certainly help paint a picture, sure, but again, you'd have to check out Thor's ongoing to help finish that said picture.
Thor being knocked out by Badoon lasers and the like effects his standing in my mind about as much as Thor killing the Demogorge. Both are incredibly out there, albeit in different directions.
All one would have to do is look at Hulk for example. Look at all the WBH/Green Scar threads. And Pak's been off the title for some time. So obviously, single character ongoings play or should play a role in how a characters stock is perceived.
And yes, to answer your question, threads like these have been made during JMS' Thor.
It's in my "to do list"
But one ongoing is not going to make all his team and event book humiliations go away.
And again I'm with you as far as where Thor SHOULD be in Marvel's hierarchy.
The problem is that Marvel does it's best to change our minds.
So to close this thread (for my side at least), I believe that Thor as things are now, CAN actually loose this fight, and his placement as first in the gauntlet, makes sense.
What Marvel, publishes week after week is what forms current continuity and in this current continuity, things don't look good for Thor.
You can argue his past showings and history (and of course they count), but the last months have only done damage to Thor's image, and I'm pretty sure all the jokes and humiliating posts on expense of Thor, from the majority of the posters, pretty much confirm that.
Cheers, and hope Marvel come's to their senses.