Originally posted by Robtard
Even though I think it's ultimately inconclusive,
Nah, you'd be no fun.
But do you think Odin is a tech wiz?
This raises an interesting point though. People keep saying Loki was only able to injure Thor because he used an "enchanted dagger", do peeps want to back out from that now?
Originally posted by Placidity
Cmon Robby, just in the other thread you said magic can replicate natural physical effects. You used the example of fire. I am sure magical fire is hot too, and the temperature can be measured.Now as to the nature of the "power level", I have no idea, but surely you could allow a little suspension of disbelief?
If we didn't have supporting evidence that Asgardians use technology, I'd be fully down with your 'magical Mjolnir putting out a non-magical energy imprint' idea.
Ultimately I don't know, imo it's highly advanced tech with a tech/magic combo possibility, as I've said. The latter probably being the the soundest considering Thor's quote.
Originally posted by Silent Master
Statements needing to be backed up is hardly a rule that I've made up, it's a standard part of debating...do you have any feats to back up Thor's statement.Otherwise, Thor is just wrong...it'd hardly be the first time someone in a movie made a incorrect statement.
Originally posted by Placidity
Nah, you'd be no fun.But do you think Odin is a tech wiz?
This raises an interesting point though. People keep saying Loki was only able to injure Thor because he used an "enchanted dagger", do peeps want to back out from that now?
Ha, ass.
Probably all his shown powers could be explained away without saying "magic" once. But they'd be guesses.
I've never said that.
Originally posted by omgchos
Its the ONLY statement on the subject. No one ever called it magic. Bad writing isnt an excuse for a poor argument. You cant back up a statement like that with any kind of feat. If you are defining a phenomenon, what it does is irrelevent unless that something is physically or mentally impossible. Desintegration, teleportation, rapid freezing, illusions, invisibility, et cetera, are all theoretically possible with the right tech. Therefore you cant say that those amazing things done on screen have to be magic if they have already been defined otherwise. YOU have to prove its magic. Give me a statement that contradicts mine or you dont have a leg to stand on here. Other than your apparently default stance of the "throwaway" statement that the main character said.
If the statement can't be backed up, it's wrothless in a debate.
Originally posted by Placidity
Nah, you'd be no fun.But do you think Odin is a tech wiz?
This raises an interesting point though. People keep saying Loki was only able to injure Thor because he used an "enchanted dagger", do peeps want to back out from that now?
Idk why it HAS to be a magic dagger. A stong ass fool with a sharp ass dagger could pierce most anything. Provided its a very durable dagger.
didnt hogun use the term a "master of magic" when referring to someone sneaking in the frost giants? are we just going to ignore that? if guardians do use "tech", hogun being one of them, would not refer to magic at all. but then so many questions. do asgardians use both magic and technology? do they just use tech and are aware that magic does still exist? maybe he ment the latter. u can hurt ur brain speculating if ur not careful.
Ok if they are so high tech, why is their tech only limited to their powers and a few items/machines? Earth is more high tech than them in everything else, especially since we are talking about the Marvel Universe where there are people like Tony Stark.
And why are most of their weapons melee? They appear to go in the opposite direction of advancing of technology. The Frost Giants, are they tech based as well? Their world looks pretty primitive. Just random questions. I can make up more.
Originally posted by Placidity
Ok if they are so high tech, why is their tech only limited to their powers and a few items/machines? Earth is more high tech than them in everything else, especially since we are talking about the Marvel Universe where there are people like Tony Stark.And why are most of their weapons melee? They appear to go in the opposite direction of advancing of technology. The Frost Giants, are they tech based as well? Their world looks pretty primitive. Just random questions. I can make up more.
Easily answered, their technology "evolved" along a very different path.
However, that brings up another good point hinting that, at least some of their power and artifacts, being tech based as humans were able to replicate the Destroyer's beam and create a gun out of it.
Originally posted by Silent Master
If the statement can't be backed up, it's wrothless in a debate.
You claim that asguardians use magic in the movies. Your basis for this is that the stuff they do is just so cool and awesome that it has to be magic. No one ever said it was magic. So in this case the statements have to back up the feats, not the other way around. Thor is a user of this tech/magic. Up until his statement you assume its magic, its still just an assumption with no basis. Then lo and behold thor(who knows more about this stuff than anyone on earth) explains it to a character on screen. Now we know the facts.
In short you have no proof other than cool things happening on screen. This btw does not qualify as proof.
Originally posted by wallman77
didnt hogun use the term a "master of magic" when referring to someone sneaking in the frost giants? are we just going to ignore that? if guardians do use "tech", hogun being one of them, would not refer to magic at all. but then so many questions. do asgardians use both magic and technology? do they just use tech and are aware that magic does still exist? maybe he ment the latter. u can hurt ur brain speculating if ur not careful.
Originally posted by ares834
Yes, I do. It's called a belief.
I didn't realize you were literally fighting for your "right" to a belief. Yes you have my permission.
Originally posted by ares834
Anyway, Thor never denies the existence of magic he only claims he comes from a place where magic/tech are one and the same.
No, that's clearly not what he meant. Portman asked if it was magic, his answer directly implies there is no magic, i.e. it's all just science really, but you guys are too backward. But not us, we know everything already (oh wait, no we don't).
As for your "3rd Law": Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.
You know this isn't a scientific law right? It is only indistinguishable from "magic" (ha which already assumes there is such a thing), to lesser technologically advanced observers. For example, if I went back 2000 years and used a flamethrower, people would believe it is magic. To an equally advanced observer, they would know it isn't magic. However, that still is no foundation for ME to say there is no such thing as magic UNLESS I were omniscient. Same principle with Thor.
Originally posted by omgchos
What would you like? The instruction manual to odins spear? Or perhaps the schematics of the Bifrost? Here let me scour the movie for them. Im sure Odin left it on his bedside table. You dont seem to grasp this concept so ill dumb it down for you.You claim that asguardians use magic in the movies. Your basis for this is that the stuff they do is just so cool and awesome that it has to be magic. No one ever said it was magic. So in this case the statements have to back up the feats, not the other way around. Thor is a user of this tech/magic. Up until his statement you assume its magic, its still just an assumption with no basis. Then lo and behold thor(who knows more about this stuff than anyone on earth) explains it to a character on screen. Now we know the facts.
In short you have no proof other than cool things happening on screen. This btw does not qualify as proof.
Like I said, if the statement can't be back up, then it's worthless in a debate.
Do you have any proof that they were using tech and not just magical artifacts?
Originally posted by Placidity
I didn't realize you were literally fighting for your "right" to a belief. Yes you have my permission.
No, what I'm saying is that even if Thor claims there is no magic. That may simply be his belief.
Originally posted by Placidity
As for your "3rd Law": Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.You know this isn't a scientific law right? It is only indistinguishable from "magic" (ha which already assumes there is such a thing), to lesser technologically advanced observers.
Yes, I realize that it's not a scientific law, but that's what the statement is called. And no, it does not it does not assume magic exists. And, yes, I realize how the law works.
Originally posted by Silent Master
Do you have any proof that they were using tech and not just magical artifacts?
Do you have any evidence that it is magic other than "hurr durr it looks like magic"?
And we do see evidence of tech with humans being able to utilize the tesseract for technological means and with them being able to create their own Destroyer beam.