Just because Surtur doesn't bust galaxies in every appearance doesn't detract from his power level, especially considering we've seen him do it before on panel as well as his primary foe, Odin, who's done it even more times than he. We know plenty of heralds can bust planets, either with physical force or energy projection, but they don't have to do so numerous times to know they pack that kind of power.
Originally posted by h1a8
You didn't invalidate my argument.
I said Surtur is not even seen 5% of the time as a Galaxy buster.
Then you going to post 3 scenes (lol at scans of Surtur creating the Twilight Sword) like that is suppose to help. So you posted 3 scenes out of how many appearances does Surtur have? Do the math!Also feats>>>>>>>>statements. Otherwise Sentry has the power of a million exploding suns and stalemated Galactus. The only true Galaxy busting feat we have is Surtur making the twilight sword.
Originally posted by h1a8
You are arguing from bias and you don't see it.
Originally posted by h1a8
You didn't invalidate my argument.
I said Surtur is not even seen 5% of the time as a Galaxy buster.
Then you going to post 3 scenes (lol at scans of Surtur creating the Twilight Sword) like that is suppose to help. So you posted 3 scenes out of how many appearances does Surtur have? Do the math!Also feats>>>>>>>>statements. Otherwise Sentry has the power of a million exploding suns and stalemated Galactus. The only true Galaxy busting feat we have is Surtur making the twilight sword.
So...he DOES have feat(s), right? So the Sentry statement is not really that good an analogy, as he hasn't shown any feats to back it up, not even one, which Surture at least has under his belt - even if its just one.
And if Surtur has at least one, what is stopping him from being able to back it up (like a Tonka truck) all those other times there have been statements?
So for example, Wally has IMP'ed....once (I'm not counting the white dwarf example, but OK, let's count it too). Its not like he has any level blockers preventing him from accessing this same speed the next time he fights, so why do we suddenly assume he can't do it anymore?
Originally posted by JakeTheBank
If the energy you're out putting and being assailed with is being felt on every plane of reality and threatening the safety of said multiverse, yes, it does. 😐You're exaggerating? Good to know.
Glass houses, pot meet kettle, etc.
I admit to it though. I never con anyone. What I say I believe and not because I'm trying to trick people.
I disagree. Odin couldn't do jack to the multiverse (damage wise) let alone a single universe, let alone a Galaxy with a single blast (yes it took multiple blasts from both to destroy a galaxy). Having energy to do one thing doesn't imply damage output. Surfer being able to transmute matter or affect time and space doesn't translate into how much power he can blast with.
Originally posted by h1a8
LOL he wasn't just brawling but shooting blasts and shit. Read the words again Jake, I think you misinterpret the scene.Lastly, a battle felt across the multiverse doesn't imply offensive power or more importantly DURABILITY. Magic allows one to meddle with dimensions without even causing harm.
It was described as a simple slugfest, but one with impossible implications. And I already mentioned that fight had Odin brawling and shooting blasts.
Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Odin at his best was effecting shit on a multiversal scale if you want to go that route. And that was him basically just punching and shooting blasts, not attempting to mind rape, stop time, or warp energy blasts, soul rape/manipulate, etc.
So, I'd suggest you actually read and comprehend my posts before trying to deconstruct them.
And that would be nice and all, your point about that fight not causing harm if people like Spider-Man (whose spider-sense went apeshit while he was in New York City), Silver Surfer (whose cosmic awareness went bonkers while in another galaxy), or Sorcerer Supreme Doctor Strange didn't sense the untold danger and peril said fight possessed.
Between the multitude of statements from various characters and the narration, we know exactly what level that fight was being portrayed at.
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
So...he DOES have feat(s), right? So the Sentry statement is not really that good an analogy, as he hasn't shown any feats to back it up, not even one, which Surture at least has under his belt - even if its just one.And if Surtur has at least one, what is stopping him from being able to back it up (like a Tonka truck) all those other times there have been statements?
So for example, Wally has IMP'ed....once (I'm not counting the white dwarf example, but OK, let's count it too). Its not like he has any level blockers preventing him from accessing this same speed the next time he fights, so why do we suddenly assume he can't do it anymore?
Yes but comic characters aren't seen at their highest power levels everytime you see them in a comic. I was told countless times to use averages. Otherwise Glads will always hit with planet destroying force in any forum fight.
And ABC logic is faulty. It's not who you beat but HOW YOU BEAT THEM.
Offensive power doesn't imply durability.
Superman is not just going to sit there and allow Odin to operate.
Superman would most likely act first and beat Odin to the punch.
Originally posted by h1a8
Yes but comic characters aren't seen at their highest power levels everytime you see them in a comic. I was told countless times to use averages. Otherwise Glads will always hit with planet destroying force in any forum fight.And ABC logic is faulty. It's not who you beat but HOW YOU BEAT THEM.
Offensive power doesn't imply durability.
Superman is not just going to sit there and allow Odin to operate.
Superman would most likely act first and beat Odin to the punch.
Originally posted by h1a8
You are arguing from bias and you don't see it.
Originally posted by JakeTheBank
It was described as a simple slugfest, but one with impossible implications. And I already mentioned that fight had Odin brawling and shooting blasts.So, I'd suggest you actually read and comprehend my posts before trying to deconstruct them.
And that would be nice and all, your point about that fight not causing harm if people like Spider-Man (whose spider-sense went apeshit while he was in New York City), Silver Surfer (whose cosmic awareness went bonkers while in another galaxy), or Sorcerer Supreme Doctor Strange didn't sense the untold danger and peril said fight possessed.
Between the multitude of statements from various characters and the narration, we know exactly what level that fight was being portrayed at.
I understand Jake, but the universe wasn't being destroyed and neither was the multiverse. The only thing being destroyed was galaxies.
So again, affecting the multiverse doesn't prove damage output.
Originally posted by h1a8
I understand Jake, but the universe wasn't being destroyed and neither was the multiverse. The only thing being destroyed was galaxies.
So again, affecting the multiverse doesn't proof damage output.
The fight was being felt on every plane of reality. Multiple characters of various sensory ability were frightened of what could happen. Narration tells us the multiverse was being effected by their fight.
How is that not a display of damage being dealt? If reality is being effected in such an adverse way, it's most assuredly a display of offensive power.
Originally posted by h1a8
But I'm right. Superman isn't just going to sit there is he?
Odin is not fast at all. You think Superman (knowing who Odin is) is just not going to try to beat Odin from the get go?
Superman knows who Odin as much as Odin knows who Superman is. 😬
And Odin, knowing he's going to be in a fight of some kind isn't going to try and beat Superman? This isn't a scenario where Superman arrives to Asgard and winds up pissing off Odin who merely wants to teach him a lesson in respect or something. It's a fight.
Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Just because Surtur doesn't bust galaxies in every appearance doesn't detract from his power level, especially considering we've seen him do it before on panel as well as his primary foe, Odin, who's done it even more times than he. We know plenty of heralds can bust planets, either with physical force or energy projection, but they don't have to do so numerous times to know they pack that kind of power.
yes but that's saying a character comes to a forum fight with the maximum power they ever shown. I want this, trust me I do. But I'm constantly being shut down about it. So I feel I have to fight for fairness.
Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Superman knows who Odin as much as Odin knows who Superman is. 😬And Odin, knowing he's going to be in a fight of some kind isn't going to try and beat Superman? This isn't a scenario where Superman arrives to Asgard and winds up pissing off Odin who merely wants to teach him a lesson in respect or something. It's a fight.
I understand. That's why it's best to look at the fight from both sides. It's faulty to ignore the other character and pretend they will do nothing and just sit there the entire time.
Assuming both will fight and not sit there then speed is on Superman's side. That's why I worship speed because it's phucking powerful. Equalizing speed is a different story though. Odin has a great chance against Supes then.
Originally posted by h1a8
yes but that's saying a character comes to a forum fight with the maximum power they ever shown. I want this, trust me I do. But I'm constantly being shut down about it. So I feel I have to fight for fairness.
Hahaha, I hope someone breaks your hands.
All this bullshit about characters fighting at their best, the repetitive crap you spew all the time about how Gladiator will blitz at light speed and hit with planet shattering blows and this is what you post?
You flip flop more than a man with his pants on fire.
Originally posted by h1a8
I understand. That's why it's best to look at the fight from both sides. It's faulty to ignore the other character and pretend they will do nothing and just sit there the entire time.Assuming both will fight and not sit there then speed is on Superman's side. That's why I worship speed because it's phucking powerful. Equalizing speed is a different story though. Odin has a great chance against Supes then.
Speed is a factor, but the comics themselves repeatedly show us that speed, while useful isn't the be all and end all to fights. And unless you want to throw out every comic where someone didn't use their speed effectively in your opinion - good luck with that, btw - there's no reason that it becomes a ridiculous overly wanked power in a fight with said characters. If a character has displayed the speed to effectively solo hundreds of herald type beings in a fight on panel, by all means, let's use it. Until then, it shouldn't get a free pass for rampant speculative extrapolation we've never actually seen in comics while every other power doesn't.
And this is without factoring in Odin's own reaction/perception abilities as well as his ability to stop/control time.
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Hahaha, I hope someone breaks your hands.All this bullshit about characters fighting at their best, the repetitive crap you spew all the time about how Gladiator will blitz at light speed and hit with planet shattering blows and this is what you post?
You flip flop more than a man with his pants on fire.
Damnit! 😠
For the hundredth time stop reading my posts out of context. If you are going to quote me then at least read the other posts.
I said, I wish I could argue that way (maximum power shown). But everytime I do I get shut down. I'm pursuing fairness (If I can't do it then neither can anyone else).
Originally posted by JakeTheBank
The fight was being felt on every plane of reality. Multiple characters of various sensory ability were frightened of what could happen. Narration tells us the multiverse was being effected by their fight.How is that not a display of damage being dealt? If reality is being effected in such an adverse way, it's most assuredly a display of offensive power.
Not really since it could imply with just screwing with the dimensions (such as time and space). Just look at what was being destroyed. We can't assume higher damage than what was being shown. Think about it. If the best the two can do after fighting for a long time is destroy some galaxies then that's all we can give that feat.
Originally posted by h1a8
Damnit! 😠
For the hundredth time stop reading my posts out of context. If you are going to quote me then at least read the other posts.I said, I wish I could argue that way (maximum power shown). But everytime I do I get shut down. I'm pursuing fairness (If I can't do it then neither can anyone else)
You mean what you've been posting consistently for the last 5 years I've been here isn't what you've really meant all along? Silly me.
But you do, and you do it all the time except in a rare case like this when it doesn't suit you. Because Odin at his best would rape Superman so hard that your anus would start bleeding.