Originally posted by Digi
The general idea behind MNer backers is that he does the optimal action in every situation. If there is a way for him to win the fight, he does. They drove this point home in the Zealot encounter where they fought for hours, and the direct implication was that she fought without a hole in her defenses from someone of MNer's skill level because she's just that good.He's got durability feats where he's no-sold hits that have sent him flying miles. And both direct or implied strength feats that make him clearly > peak human. My best estimate would have him in the 1-5 class range, which is probably where we'd place Cap. The Apollo fight and tank shell kick are brought up far too often, though without the acknowledgement that while they're probably his best feats, they're not without precedent in Authority comics. They're good feats, but not so anomalous that they stick out as PIS.
Of course volume hurts MNer and helps Cap. Such is life. I don't think it's outlandish to place him in the same tier or as Cap's better though, simply because what evidence exists lends itself to that conclusion.
I'm not adamantly opposed to Cap winning this. I can see the argument. However, I do think the nature of MNer's power set gives him the edge.
Midnighter's battle computer is immensely over rated. He's been held at gun point by three retired SAS members forcing his surrender because he couldn't win without Apollo's aid. We have direct confirmation from Midnighter that 50 wins is average win ration... and he runs billions (or millions, accounts vary) of scenarios per second. Once he fought three random mercs, bums that Captain America wouldn't get out of bed for, and he only came up with five possible wins. He stalemated Zealot? I think she was clearly demonstrated to be his superior the moment the swords came into play, but lets disregarded that for now and see what he can determine about Midnighter's battle computer from that showing. He stalemated Zealot, in back and forth melee exchange... well a single character with Batgirl esq body language reading ability was able to dance around both Zealot and Nemesis at the same time. The reality is Midnighter's battle computer just isn't that good, and in practice has never given him an edge over any established character in combat... why would Captain America be the exception? And that isn't even looking at PIS examples like when MN'er powers didn't work against the Shang-Chi robot because he didn't attack first...
Name one other feat that is anywhere with the realm of Midnighter kicking that tank shell? Other than that his best strength feat is a bending a portion of rail road track or using a fridge as a blunt weapon... neither of which are even with in the same solar system as the missile kick. The Apollo feat I don't really care about since he fluctuates in power more than the Powerpuff Girls, so it's fair game if you want to cite it.
Not sure I really want to get into it with srank. It's late, and I'll probably see the futility of this discussion by morning.
Originally posted by Mindset
Are you of the opinion that if MNer wins he wins 10/10 or was that someone else?
I've cited that argument, but haven't always endorsed it. There's ways to throw curveballs in his computational abilities. But it's not without justification to make this particular claim, given the nature of his powers.
Originally posted by srankmissingnin
Midnighter's battle computer is immensely over rated. He's been held at gun point by three retired SAS members forcing his surrender because he couldn't win without Apollo's aid. We have direct confirmation from Midnighter that 50 wins is average win ration... and he runs billions (or millions, accounts vary) of scenarios per second. Once he fought three random mercs, bums that Captain America wouldn't get out of bed for, and he only came up with five possible wins. He stalemated Zealot? I think she was clearly demonstrated to be his superior the moment the swords came into play, but lets disregarded that for now and see what he can determine about Midnighter's battle computer from that showing. He stalemated Zealot, in back and forth melee exchange... well a single character with Batgirl esq body language reading ability was able to dance around both Zealot and Nemesis at the same time. The reality is Midnighter's battle computer just isn't that good, and in practice has never given him an edge over any established character in combat... why would Captain America be the exception? And that isn't even looking at PIS examples like when MN'er powers didn't work against the Shang-Chi robot because he didn't attack first...Name one other feat that is anywhere with the realm of Midnighter kicking that tank shell? Other than that his best strength feat is a bending a portion of rail road track or using a fridge as a blunt weapon... neither of which are even with in the same solar system as the missile kick. The Apollo feat I don't really care about since he fluctuates in power more than the Powerpuff Girls, so it's fair game if you want to cite it.
Although I agree Cap loses I must say good "stuff" srank. When srank debates you know shit just got real because he knows about the other character very well.
Originally posted by srankmissingninYou have no rationality when it comes to Wildstorm characters. So don't mistake my derision as an invitation for you to post incoherent babble vomit. I called you stupid. End of. And if you'd reread what you've posted in this thread, you'd realize that. I'll leave it to you to figure out why.
😆Midnighter crushes some nobody cans. I guess he can beat Cap! dur
Your slack jaw troglodyte bit never gets old.
Originally posted by Digi👆
Midnighter, fairly clearly. Let's not punish him for being in a lesser-known universe, and lowball everything everything as a result. He has numerous feats to suggest he'd be able to not only hang with Cap but flummox him entirely. Some things are quite applicable across universes.
Originally posted by ODG
You have no rationality when it comes to Wildstorm characters. So don't mistake my derision as an invitation for you to post incoherent babble vomit. I called you stupid. End of. And if you'd reread what you've posted in this thread, you'd realize that. I'll leave it to you to figure out why. 👆
😆
Wildstorm was my favorite publisher before they folded, and I know more about Midnighter, then you know about the whole of the Wildstorm universe.
You can call me stupid if you'd like, but changing your screen name to an acronym didn't make anyone forget what that D stood for buddy.
Originally posted by srankmissingninDingo?
😆Wildstorm was my favorite publisher before they folded, and I know more about Midnighter, then you know about the whole of the Wildstorm universe.
You can call me stupid if you'd like, but changing your screen name to an acronym didn't make anyone forget what that D stood for buddy.
Originally posted by srankmissingninYou reading the comics hasn't remedied how stupidly you consider the character. After all, we all know how inane your views on Wolverine are.
😆Wildstorm was my favorite publisher before they folded, and I know more about Midnighter, then you know about the whole of the Wildstorm universe.
You can call me stupid if you'd like, but changing your screen name to an acronym didn't make anyone forget what that D stood for buddy.
Yes, an utterly impotent jab at my username is going to somehow offset how stupid you've been in this thread.
I like how your extolling of the decades of Cap's feats mean anything in a thread involving Ult. Cap.
Stop being so stupid and shut up.
Originally posted by ODGDarksaint85 pointed it out to me. It's Cap, not Ult. Cap in this thread. Apologies.
You reading the comics hasn't remedied how stupidly you consider the character. After all, we all know how inane your views on Wolverine are.Yes, an utterly impotent jab at my username is going to somehow offset how stupid you've been in this thread.
I like how your extolling of the decades of Cap's feats mean anything in a thread involving Ult. Cap.
Stop being so stupid and shut up.
Originally posted by ODG
You reading the comics hasn't remedied how stupidly you consider the character. After all, we all know how inane your views on Wolverine are.Yes, an utterly impotent jab at my username is going to somehow offset how stupid you've been in this thread.
I like how your extolling of the decades of Cap's feats mean anything in a thread involving Ult. Cap.
Stop being so stupid and shut up.
If you actually bothered to offer up a rebuttal to anything I've said in this thread, I'd happily tear you apart just like I always do, but it seems all you can muster is feeble insults attacking my intelligence... which is funny because you lack the reading comprehension to even figure out what this thread is even about or which characters are involved. I appreciate you saving me some time and making yourself look like a fool on your own though.