Superboy Prime vs. Team!

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
He...footstomps...to stop himself.

I have to see scans of this. I can accept him thunderclapping or waving his arms about to kinda change direction, but its not any meaningful flight. He can't swoop around,can he.

Also:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/15933825@N07/3399779053/in/set-72157616058328609

Cool.

So are you saying that in future Hulk matches, you are going to argue from the position that Hulk can replicate that feat?

if he's leaping fast enough...certain parts...older hulk even out speeded a nuke

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Cool.

So are you saying that in future Hulk matches, you are going to argue from the position that Hulk can replicate that feat?

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Without any meaningful directional control, sure.

You're mistaken, D.S., whether we're talking past or present.

In answer to your question, I'd soonest reference the following, taken from Pak's recent "Fall of the Hulks" storyline:

So, you'd reference Jennifer saying that no, its not like flying?

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
So, you'd reference Jennifer saying that no, its not like flying?

Comic book "flying" itself isn't "like flying", so, yes, absolutely I would reference that. The air control Hulk characters like Jen and Lyra demonstrate is scarcely inferior to what a man in a small paraglider would possess, really:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speed_riding

On that note, here's a link to a fuller view of that duo-Shulk scene from Marvel dot com itself:

http://marvel.com/images/gallery/character/1011392/images_featuring_she-hulk_lyra/image/753637

Originally posted by bluewaterrider
Comic book "flying" [b]itself isn't "like flying", so, yes, absolutely I would reference that. The air control Hulk characters like Jen and Lyra demonstrate is scarcely inferior to what a man in a small paraglider would possess, really:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speed_riding

On that note, here's a link to a fuller view of that duo-Shulk scene from Marvel dot com itself:

http://marvel.com/images/gallery/character/1011392/images_featuring_she-hulk_lyra/image/753637 [/B]

Except a paraglider can change height with updrafts, possessing a large enough surface area to catch it.

The air control Hulk characters demonstrate is more akin, like Jen said, to falling in a cooler way. If Jen wanted to swoop upwards and do a loop de loop like a comic flying character can do...can she?

How is what Jen and Lyra doing any different from a normal human? If someone jumped out of a plane, and manoeuvred their body to steer like Jen does - would you say that person could fly like Superman?

Incidentally, that's why its called paraGLIDING,not paraFLYING

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Except a paraglider can change height with updrafts, possessing a large enough surface area to catch it.

The air control Hulk characters demonstrate is more akin, like Jen said, to falling in a cooler way. If Jen wanted to swoop upwards and do a loop de loop like a comic flying character can do...can she?

How is what Jen and Lyra doing any different from a normal human? If someone jumped out of a plane, and manoeuvred their body to steer like Jen does - would you say that person could fly like Superman?

1. Superman doesn't fly like ANYTHING you can point to in real life.
If you want comic book flight that actually mirrors something you might see in our real world, you'd have to use a character that has wings or uses a jetpack. Fail the power aspect and turn the discussion to gliding and Superman still fails most practical tests. Mentioning him at all is a red herring.

2. Jen and Lyra are different from normal humans in mid-air in that

a. they will survive impact unaided.
b. they KNOW they will survive impact unaided
c. they have the confidence and control that comes FROM knowing they will survive impact unaided, meaning they can calmly concentrate on where they want to hit and not lose it like any normal man or woman would on thinking what will happen when they DO eventually hit the ground or other target

What, are you saying Superman can't gain and lose height at will, change direction at will, and change speed at will?

So in order to fly, all you need to have is the confidence, and the belief that everything will be fine?

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
What, are you saying Superman can't gain and lose height at will, change direction at will, and change speed at will?

So in order to fly, all you need to have is the confidence, and the belief that everything will be fine?

You're losing your touch -- your misdirections used to be far more skillful than this ... I'm guessing you had a long day at work 😬

You can continue tossing herrings at me, but I don't think you have enough fish in your stock to distract from the fact that you were ultimately wrong when you typed that Hulks have no meaningful directional control in the air. Enlist the help of a partner or something.
Then your distraction will succeed.

But back on topic, Hulks DO have meaningful directional control in the air. The Hulk routinely used it to travel to cities or homes of his choice, with or without passengers. Jen and Lyra have such command of it that they are able to pinpoint two Hulked out soldiers when unexpectedly tossed out of a plane. (See attached image.)
As relates to this particular thread, in a setting where a multi-member team that includes multiple fliers is taking up Prime's attention, a character that can aim both their jump and descent IS worthy of consideration. Certainly more worthy of consideration than a groundbound character like Juggernaut.

Incidentally:
(from Wikipedia)

Speed flying is done by launching from a slope with the wing overhead, already inflated by the incoming air. The main difference between speed flying and paragliding, is that speed flying is meant to create a fast, thrilling ride close to the slope, while the point of paragliding is usually to maintain a longer, gentler flight.

Originally posted by bluewaterrider
You're losing your touch -- your misdirections used to be far more skillful than this ... I'm guessing you had a long day at work 😬

You can continue tossing herrings at me, but I don't think you have enough fish in your stock to distract from the fact that you were ultimately wrong when you typed that Hulks have no meaningful directional control in the air. Enlist the help of a partner or something.
Then your distraction will succeed.

But back on topic, Hulks DO have meaningful directional control in the air. The Hulk routinely used it to travel to cities or homes of his choice, with or without passengers. Jen and Lyra have such command of it that they are able to pinpoint two Hulked out soldiers when unexpectedly tossed out of a plane. (See attached image.)
As relates to this particular thread, in a setting where a multi-member team that includes multiple fliers is taking up Prime's attention, a character that can aim both their jump and descent IS worthy of consideration. Certainly more worthy of consideration than a groundbound character like Juggernaut.

Incidentally:
(from Wikipedia)

Speed flying is done by launching from a slope with the wing overhead, already inflated by the incoming air. [b]The main difference between speed flying and paragliding, is that speed flying is meant to create a fast, thrilling ride close to the slope, while the point of paragliding is usually to maintain a longer, gentler flight.
[/B]

Hence why I put the caveat, MEANINGFUL. I do not dispute that they can change direction.

So you're saying, and I'm genuinely not trying to misdirect here - if SBP was in the air, say, and the Hulk jumped at him - SUPPOSING SBP had fast enough reactions to dodge him both on the way up, and on the way down - would the Hulk be able to then change direction if he has already missed SBP on the way down? Or will he have to hit the ground again?

As for misdirections and red herrings, what's the speed flying Wiki article for?

If you are trying to argue semantics, then by all means, go for it. But it is NOT powered flight, simple as. I don't even know what you're trying to argue, as your very own scan says -

Its like flying!

No.

Can't get any clearer than that. The character herself admits that its not like flying.

Thanks for the scan. Without it, I would have had to put a touch more effort into winning.

Team, hard.

Team wins this one.