Originally posted by Oliver North
ok, but the fact is you want them to justify it to you. since you have already said it is unjustifiable, this is impossible. basically, you have already declared any argument as inadequate,
Um, no. I want an argument to justify it. It's like I said, legitimate rape. There are people who believe it, and I want to know why. If evidence refutes your claims, and you still believe it anyway, I am generally curious as to know why. I haven't declared in argument inadequate because nobody has made an argument defending the GOP's position. The fact that no one can seem to justify the GOP's actions only makes them seem more unjustifiable.
Originally posted by Oliver North
and have then suggested you know better for those who disagree with you.
Do you disagree with me? and if so why? I know you are more intelligent than me, so if there is something beneficial the GOP is doing that I'm not seeing, please let me know.
Originally posted by Oliver North
like, you have staked the claim that reasonable people can't disagree with you,
No. I said supporting the GOP's actions seems unreasonable based on the things they've done and I want to know what logic is being used to support them.
Like I said, they are known liars, so forgive me for thinking that some of their supporters are heavily misinformed. Again, you're smarter than me, so if there is a reasonable argument for all the horrible shit the GOP has done over the past few years, please let me know.
Originally posted by Oliver North
accepting that these types of truths are entirely relative might suit your purposes.
Nothing relative about a group holding our economy hostage to benefit the top 2% at the detriment of all others. That's clearly a despicable action, no matter what your political views.
Originally posted by Lestov16
Which is why we are in the best position to help
And I'm sure the people of Afghanistan, Iraq, Haiti, Somalia, the Balkans, (Iraq again), etc, etc, etc really feel we have helped them. This country has been almost continuiously at war since 1941. I'm also willing to bet 09/11 would never have happened had the US pursued a non interventionist policy. Time for all this to stop . You blame the republicans for everything but historically it has been Democratic Presidents that have primarily taken us to war (Wilson, Roosevelt, Truman,Kennedy/Johnson) and Clinton and Obozo have their share also. Not saying the Republicans are blameless, but you seem to have very little understanding of how or why the current state of American ecoinomics came about. Not to mention the toll in life because of all this shit.
Originally posted by Archaeopteryx
And I'm sure the people of Afghanistan,
I'm pretty sure they were quite happy to get rid of the Soviets
Originally posted by Archaeopteryx
Iraq,
GOP H.W. Bush thing
Originally posted by Archaeopteryx
Somalia
Unsure about that, considering how they kicked our asses out of there
Originally posted by Archaeopteryx
the Balkans,
Originally posted by ArchaeopteryxBlame the GOP
(Iraq again)
Originally posted by Archaeopteryx
This country has been almost continuously at war since 1941.
Mainly because of the Cold War.
Originally posted by Archaeopteryx
[B]I'm also willing to bet 09/11 would never have happened had the US pursued a non interventionist policy.
Again, the Cold war is what got us involved with him in the first place, so pretty sure intervention was non-avoidable. Also the 90's wars in the Middle East were manly cause by H.W Bush
Originally posted by Archaeopteryx
Time for all this to stop
I agree. Genocides like the one in Rwanda, Libya, and now potentially Syria should be stopped .
Originally posted by Archaeopteryx
You blame the republicans for everything
Yes they are the cause of our current financial crisis
Originally posted by Archaeopteryx
it has been Democratic Presidents that have primarily taken us to war (Wilson, Roosevelt, Truman,Kennedy/Johnson)
During the Cold War years against the Soviet communists who were just as belligerent
Originally posted by Archaeopteryx
and Clinton
Pretty sure you're talking about Yugoslavia again right? Again, would you rather have let Milosevic carry on with his war rape?
Originally posted by Archaeopteryx
and Obozo have their share also.
He was elected during a time that we were at war, so it's pretty obvious he would be involved as well. Considering we've left Iraq and will be leaving Afghanistan by the end of next year, and considering that we've pretty much gotten everybody we set out for (Bin Laden, Hussein, etc.), I'm pretty sure it won't be going on for too much longer
Originally posted by Archaeopteryx
Not saying the Republicans are blameless,
They really aren't. All of our current overseas grief comes from them, since it was H.W who started the wars in the Middle East that caused 9/11 which caused H.W's retard son to go to war, even after the cause of the war was resolved (we caught Saddam), which gave radical Muslims a reason to start attacking us more frequently, which is why we are bogged down in a state of international violence right now. So yeah, GOP aren't blameless in this. At all.
Originally posted by Archaeopteryx
but you seem to have very little understanding of how or why the current state of American ecoinomics came about.
Let's see. We were fine under Clinton, then Bush scammed his way into office, phucked everything up with his Halliburton war (we caught Saddam, but then stayed?) amongst other things, and then when economic reforms were attempted to be made by the following administration, the spiteful GOP Congress shot it all down and held our economy hostage. Am I missing anything?
Originally posted by Archaeopteryx
Not to mention the toll in life because of all this shit.
Do you know what creates a higher death toll? Genocide
Originally posted by Lestov16
I glad you see the error of your ways. I hate the GOP, and so do democrats. Enemy of my enemy....And like I said, any political party would be better, as no other political party seems to have a raging hard-on for the top 2% like the GOP do. I don't think you seem to comprehend that the reason I'm not talking about democrats is that [b]democrats haven't been halting all economic progress and holding our economy hostage for the last 4 years like the GOP clearly did
[/B]
One day, I plan to run for political office. I am considering running the label "Republican". Vote for me if only because I can do math and will legalize MJ.
Originally posted by Mairuzu
How about the many innocent deaths due to our drone warfare? These strikes aren't very accurate. Again, it creates more hostility.
This reminds me: I saw a vid on the yucky side of the internet of a drone strike that killed a family. It was meant for a "house" across the street a ways and something or another got mixed up. They were in their front yard or something. Mother had a couple of little kids, etc. BAM...nothing but rubble. It was haunting and it disgusted me. That shit has to stop. I don't care if a "terrorist" goes free. Better they go free than "us" murder.
Originally posted by Lestov16What are his unreasonable demands?
You mean besides the fact that John Boehner refuses to raise the debt ceiling unless the White House gives into his unreasonable demands, just like he did a year ago, nearly putting us into default? How do you not know this? Do you watch the news, or do you live under a rock?
It's one thing to say it it's another to show it and explain.
I myself am not a republican or a democrat in fact I probably think more along the same lines as Digi when it comes to that stuff.
You mean besides the fact that he would rather cut into programs like Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, and Education, than expire the Bush tax cuts for the wealthiest 2%? Matter of fact, he wants to permananetly extend them for the wealthiest 2%
😱
Holy shit! Thats's their endgame. They know it's a wrap in 2014 so they're trying to protect the 2% as much as they can before they're voted out and the people voted in make much needed reforms. The new people voted in will be unable to tax the 2% due to the permanent tax cut. Boehner, you piece of shit!!!
Originally posted by Lestov16So his unreasonable demands are that he is trying to fix the deficit in a way you don't agree with.
You mean besides the fact that he would rather cut into programs like Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, and Education, than expire the Bush tax cuts for the wealthiest 2%? Matter of fact, he wants to permananetly extend them for the wealthiest 2%😱
[b]Holy shit!
Thats's their endgame. They know it's a wrap in 2014 so they're trying to protect the 2% as much as they can before they're voted out and the people voted in make much needed reforms. The new people voted in will be unable to tax the 2% due to the permanent tax cut. Boehner, you piece of shit!!! [/B]
While I don't agree with his stands there is a difference between someone trying to hurt people and someone simply trying to do what they think is best. I can at least look at what he is trying to do.
Trying to vilify someone to get your point across isn't the best to go about defending your position.
That being said I don't know enough about the topic to know whether or not the person is in fact a bad guy but from your general tone I can at least come to conclusion that you tend to be biased with your opinions on the subject. Which to me means that most of what you're stating to me is basically opinions on what you believe the other side to be. Which is you believe them to be evil money grabbing tyrants only trying to help out the richest while all the democrats are trying to save the world with their reformed and enlightened way of thinking. Which is false not every republican is evil nor is every democrat right.
Mostly what I've gathered from this topic is that you basically shoe horn every single republican into one category of people even though Republicans represent a vast majority of different groups of people much like Democrats.
Originally posted by Newjak
So his unreasonable demands are that he is trying to fix the deficit in a way you don't agree with.While I don't agree with his stands there is a difference between someone trying to hurt people and someone simply trying to do what they think is best.
If holding our economy hostage and nearly causing us to default is what you think is someone trying to do what's best, then I'd have to disagree. Even if they were doing it for benevolent reasons, the road to hell is paved with good intentions. many horrible dictators in history, from Cromwell to Hitler to Pol Pot, have used that "trying to do what's best" bullshit to commit horrible atrocities, and the GOP are doing so as well (if your assumption that they actually care is correct)
Originally posted by Newjak
I can at least look at what he is trying to do.
For the wealthiest 2%. He's trying to permanently extend their tax cuts so they will be immune from actually contributing to economic reform in this country. Also, how is blocking several progressive bills purely out of spite for the incumbent "trying to do" anything?
Originally posted by Newjak
Which is you believe them to be evil money grabbing tyrants only trying to help out the richest
Not all, but the ones who are have power and are using it protect the richest at the expense of all others
Originally posted by Newjak
while all the democrats are trying to save the world with their reformed and enlightened way of thinking.
Never said that.
Originally posted by Newjak
Which is false not every republican is evil nor is every democrat right.Mostly what I've gathered from this topic is that you basically shoe horn every single republican into one category of people even though Republicans represent a vast majority of different groups of people much like Democrats.
I think you misunderstand me. As I said, it's not every Republican, but it is purely Republicans. Basically it's like how not every Muslim is a terrorist but most terrorists happen to be Muslim. Not every Republican is a greedy businessman, but the "terrorists" (possibly literally) of our economy are all Republicans. I'm demonizing Al Qaeda, not Islam.
Originally posted by Lestov16There are plenty of greedy people who are democratic as well. There are plenty of people who are democrats that who put their own selfish agendas above other people. Trust me Republicans don't have that market cornered.
If holding our economy hostage and nearly causing us to default is what you think is someone trying to do what's best, then I'd have to disagree. Even if they were doing it for benevolent reasons, the road to hell is paved with good intentions. many horrible dictators in history, from Cromwell to Hitler to Pol Pot, have used that "trying to do what's best" bullshit to commit horrible atrocities, and the GOP are doing so as well (if your assumption that they actually care is correct)For the wealthiest 2%. He's trying to permanently extend their tax cuts so they will be immune from actually contributing to economic reform in this country. Also, how is blocking several progressive bills purely out of spite for the incumbent "trying to do" anything?
Not all, but the ones who are have power and are using it protect the richest at the expense of all others
Never said that.
I think you misunderstand me. As I said, it's not every Republican, but it is purely Republicans. Basically it's like how not every Muslim is a terrorist but most terrorists happen to be Muslim. Not every Republican is a greedy businessman, but the "terrorists" (possibly literally) of our economy are all Republicans
Originally posted by Lestov16
I'd rather the US gets a bad rap than allow another Rwandan Genocide to occur. You are right about the money though.
Sounds like an appeal to emotion. Genocides happen daily. Its just spread out. Depends where you draw the line I guess.
Originally posted by Lestov16
His foreign policy isn't the best, but it's a lot better than Bush's.
Its the same if not worse. He's already sending troops back to Iraq.
Originally posted by Lestov16
Anwar al-Awlaki was a known terrorist and his teachings led to the death of hundreds, if not thousands, of innocents. I don't care what nationality he was, he needed to die. It's the same about me supposed to be feeling sympathy about Khalid Sheik Mohammed getting the shit tortured out of him. Sometimes, people get what they deserve.
Anwar al-awlaki got killed for speech crimes. He didnt commit these acts at all and should have had a trial. He's had dinners with the CIA apparently, not sure what was discussed. We dont really know what goes down, only what we're told. It amazes me how a guy who can give this speech (ill post below) can suddenly change his idea. Theres plenty of other lectures he has on youtube.
But regardless if you think hes guilty or should be killed by us illegally,(even the mi6 passed on that) what about his 16 year old son who got droned, along with his cousin, at a family dinner? They havent even stated why this was needed. They tried getting away with claiming he was of military age.
Ya right.
Originally posted by Lestov16Or a bomb in their face.
I agree. It's hard to get information from anybody when they have a bullet in their dome.
Originally posted by Lestov16
The drone strike scenario is an unwinnable scenario no matter how you look at it. If we strike, we kill innocents and get them mad at us. If we don't strike, they run wild and use the opportunity to plot suicide bombings against us.
The latter has to do with our intervention over there and occupation. Its not hard to understand that. We've been meddling in the middle east for almost an entire century.
Originally posted by Lestov16
Exactly. We're the only deterrent stopping Assad from slaughtering his civilians more than he already has
We're not going to stop the deaths of many. Getting invlonved only brings more death including our own and bankruptcy. Its all this fear mongering that gets us into this.
Originally posted by Lestov16
What do you mean? We should have just let Gaddafi run wild and continue his onslaught? Are you saying everyone in Libya, rather than a small terror group, are responsible for the consulate attacks? I hope you aren't saying that you would trade Chris Stevens' and the other 4's life for the lives all those who died under Gaddafi's rule.
Gaddafi got bombed for trying to turn to the gold dinar. Had nothing to do with the humanitarian bullshit. Al qaeda took over libya the moment he was killed by mob. We've been known to turn on allys for sketchy reasons.
Originally posted by Lestov16
I would, but I got shit to do in the homeland
So come up with ideas to enforce on others via their money as well. Always works.
Originally posted by dadudemonThis reminds me: I saw a vid on the yucky side of the internet of a drone strike that killed a family. It was meant for a "house" across the street a ways and something or another got mixed up. They were in their front yard or something. Mother had a couple of little kids, etc. BAM...nothing but rubble. It was haunting and it disgusted me. That shit has to stop. I don't care if a "terrorist" goes free. Better they go free than "us" murder.
I go to the yucky side quite too often. Watched this video called tears of Gaza. ****ed up shit. I heard that they bombed a wedding in pakistan I believe... not sure... mainly because they bring weapons to weddings so you know... they thought.
The pilots are so disconnected to what they're doing. Its easy to press a button to attack a little human figure on a screen.
Not for nothing, but we can't totally absolve Al-Malaki's for bringing his son into a warzone. There are plenty of ways that that could have ended badly without an American drone strike even coming into the equation.
I think people get hung up on Al-Malaki because he had a US passport, while there are plenty of less morally-gray cases of drone strike collateral damage that don't get nearly as much attention.
Since when were we at war with Yemen? Its not a warzone at all?
He also didnt bring his son. His son went looking for him. It was a week after Awlaki's death. He was at a family dinner ready to head home apparently. You're really trying to justify this? lol
Its al-awlaki (aulaqi). Malaki sounds awesome tho lol.