An idea for "Gun Control".

I think the paranoid way of thinking that people need guns in their houses needs to be addressed. If they're supposed to be there to protect from evil, then where was the knight in shining armour in any of these recent shootings? At the Fort Worth shooting there were plenty of people with guns, yet no one put a stop to that massacre, there were people in the Aurora cinema with guns, but none could stop that gunman either. Twenty really young children have just lost their lives and no one came running in time to put a stop to that.

Why should it be a constitutional right to own something that's only real purpose (if you're using it for "security"😉 is to kill another human being?

The burglars have guns because they're so easily available and homeowners are likely to have them too. All of this, all of these problems come down to the fact that guns are so easy to get. It is absolutely terrifying and if twenty toddlers lives being lost isn't enough to cause a drastic rethink, I don't know what will be.

In my opinion the idea that your 'security' is worth more than tackling this and doing the utmost to stop it from happening again is an extremely selfish one.

Originally posted by Chillmeister
I think the paranoid way of thinking that people need guns in their houses needs to be addressed. If they're supposed to be there to protect from evil, then where was the knight in shining armour in any of these recent shootings? At the Fort Worth shooting there were plenty of people with guns, yet no one put a stop to that massacre, there were people in the Aurora cinema with guns, but none could stop that gunman either. Twenty really young children have just lost their lives and no one came running in time to put a stop to that.

Why should it be a constitutional right to own something that's only real purpose (if you're using it for "security"😉 is to kill another human being?

The burglars have guns because they're so easily available and homeowners are likely to have them too. All of this, all of these problems come down to the fact that guns are so easy to get. It is absolutely terrifying and if twenty toddlers lives being lost isn't enough to cause a drastic rethink, I don't know what will be.

In my opinion the idea that your 'security' is worth more than tackling this and doing the utmost to stop it from happening again is an extremely selfish one.

It is not as though there are plenty of links of home invading, weapon wielding, weirdos:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2082716/Sarah-McKinley-Teen-mom-shoots-dead-intruder-Justin-Shane-Martin-looking-prescription-drugs.html

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/home-girl-12-shoots-intruder-article-1.1188229

http://www.wfaa.com/news/crime/Grand-Prairie-resident-shoots-home-invader-while-on-911-call-181079611.html

And, like I pointed out, you start a gun prohibition, they'll make guns anyway. The UK has a gun ban and gun-related homicides still occur. Gun deaths will never go away without a god-like AI and an army of robots to perfectly enforce the prohibition.

Do you have any idea how rare guns are in the UK? Of course they still exist, but come on, that argument is ridiculous.

If I was to leave work now, decide that I want to kill someone and that I wanted to do it with a gun, I wouldn't know where to get one. I'm willing to bet if you were to do the same thing that you would know where to get one.

The argument of 'there will always be guns' does not sit with me. Assault rifles have no place in a suburban family home and if they weren't there, this recent tragedy would not have happened.

Originally posted by Chillmeister
Do you have any idea how rare guns are in the UK? Of course they still exist, but come on, that argument is ridiculous.

The argument is that people will still shoot each other and kill people, even during a prohibition of guns. The UK is proof of that.

Originally posted by Chillmeister
If I was to leave work now, decide that I want to kill someone and that I wanted to do it with a gun, I wouldn't know where to get one.

But you're not a criminal. In fact, you're a pretty decent dude. But it only takes about 10 minutes of internet browsing to find sources. And if you're familiar enough, 5 minutes.

Originally posted by Chillmeister
I'm willing to bet if you were to do the same thing that you would know where to get one.

Indeed...even if I were living in the UK. But I'm not a criminal or anything.

Originally posted by Chillmeister
The argument of 'there will always be guns' does not sit with me. Assault rifles have no place in a suburban family home and if they weren't there, this recent tragedy would not have happened.

My argument is "since there will always be guns short of a sci-fi AI Ruled world with perfect enforcement, the solution is obviously not going to be a gun prohibition." It is impossible to get rid of the guns.

Even before stricter gun laws in Japan, their homicide rate was 1.2 per 100,000. But Japan also does not have something as protective as the Fourth Amendment. Japan also fosters a much different culture than the US.

These people who massacre schools aren't criminals until they decide to shoot up an entire school. There needs to be measures in place that stops these mentally unbalanced people ever having access to weapons that can do so much harm.

Search the internet for guns in the UK and it won't be long before you have a knock on the door, or walk straight into a sting operation. There are ways of getting them, I'm sure, but I'm not really sure if the internet is it. Anyway, that's irrelevant. There aren't guns in my home, there aren't guns in anyone I know's homes.

Having guns around just makes it all too easy for these things to happen. There are always, always going to be people who want to do this sort of thing. It needs to be made difficult for them.

Originally posted by dadudemon
ItAnd, like I pointed out, you start a gun prohibition, they'll make guns anyway. The UK has a gun ban and gun-related homicides still occur.

With an absolute minuscule fraction compared to the ratio of US gun deaths. Trying to bring up the 'people still shoot each other in the UK' point is just drawing attention to the absolutely shameful US gun death rate.

The whole 'people will get them anyway' argument is a complete dead end. The fact is, the ridiculously open US attitude to gun ownership[ is a significant part of the problem. If gun access was more restricted, the deaths would go down, and rather like the US' primitive approach to health care before Obama started to move in the right direction, the US' current laws on gun ownership are a source of international derision.

It is true that the whole gun thing is part of US culture, but then pretty much every country had open weapon ownership at one point. It is part of the challenge of a country's development that backwards-looking cultural ideals are challenged and overturned, and it's about time the US did just that.

Originally posted by Ushgarak
With an absolute minuscule fraction compared to the ratio of US gun deaths. Trying to bring up the 'people still shoot each other in the UK' point is just drawing attention to the absolutely shameful US gun death rate.

The whole 'people will get them anyway' argument is a complete dead end. The fact is, the ridiculously open US attitude to gun ownership[ is a significant part of the problem. If gun access was more restricted, the deaths would go down, and rather like the US' primitive approach to health care before Obama started to move in the right direction, the US' current laws on gun ownership are a source of international derision.

It is true that the whole gun thing is part of US culture, but then pretty much every country had open weapon ownership at one point. It is part of the challenge of a country's development that backwards-looking cultural ideals are challenged and overturned, and it's about time the US did just that.

Originally posted by Chillmeister
These people who massacre schools aren't criminals until they decide to shoot up an entire school. There needs to be measures in place that stops these mentally unbalanced people ever having access to weapons that can do so much harm.

A fascists system that forces people to submit to periodic screening is your only sure measure against that. Prohibition of guns won't stop it.

Did Timothy McVeigh shoot up all of those people?

Originally posted by Chillmeister
Search the internet for guns in the UK and it won't be long before you have a knock on the door, or walk straight into a sting operation.

That is incorrect: the UK does not have a "deep packet" inspection routine.

Additionally, a person may already commit the crime before they get into trouble.

Originally posted by Chillmeister
There are ways of getting them, I'm sure, but I'm not really sure if the internet is it.

The internet is definitely a place you can go but it is difficult to use and find stuff that way in countries like the UK. You have to use things other than the internet.

Originally posted by Chillmeister
Anyway, that's irrelevant. There aren't guns in my home, there aren't guns in anyone I know's homes.

But they are there and you do not know who has them and who doesn't until you read about it or watch it on the tele.

Originally posted by Chillmeister
Having guns around just makes it all too easy for these things to happen. There are always, always going to be people who want to do this sort of thing. It needs to be made difficult for them.

You can own guns in the UK and Japan. For the UK it is getting an FAC.

I think the US should setup a system that is even more strict than the UK's system but allow a greater range of firearms short of stupid stuff like automatics, RPGs, etc.

Of course your 'fascists' system isn't the only measure against that. Better mental health care on a national level, subsidised by tax payers and attempting to shed the stigma that goes along with mental health issues is one of the ways to combat it.

The other is making sure that people's homes aren't filled with an arsenal of pistols and assault rifles is another way. Less guns and more compassionate treatment of the mentally ill is the way forward. Keep the same system and it will keep happening.

It will be a difficult thing to do, but America needs to decide whether it wants to address this issue properly. Talk about freedom all you want, but I wouldn't want my kids going to school in that country at the moment and I wouldn't want to live in a country where having weapons designed only to kill in family homes is shrugged off as necessary.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
Well, that's not entirely true. Most European countries have had traditions of weapon confiscations stemming from Middle Age fears of peasant revolts.

Too far back- compare how easy it was to get guns in Europe in the early 20th century.

(And drugs, for that matter)

I seriously doubt that without a constitutional amendment (and do you know how hard that is) there will be any major gun bans un the US any time soon.

It's called an amendment for a reason. Amend it, it's out of date.

Originally posted by Ushgarak
Too far back- compare how easy it was to get guns in Europe in the early 20th century.

(And drugs, for that matter)

How easy is it to get drugs in Europe now? America's drug problem is a disaster and is the single biggest contributor to gun violence. As tragic as what happened in Conneticut was this type of gun violence (assault rifles) contributes to less than 1% of gun deaths in America. The overwhelming # of gun deaths is via small caliber handguns yet it is the assault rifles everybody is talking about. end the war on drugs and gun violence decreases by more than half.

Sure, but it's worth commenting on the days where you could walk into a chemist's store and order cocaine or send out a hamper of hard drugs to troops in the front line during World War I, both of which were possible in the UK.

Likewise, you could just walk into a wholesale armourers and buy handguns as you like (and such stores sold out when WWI began). So the lesson is- cultures change.

Originally posted by Chillmeister
Of course your 'fascists' system isn't the only measure against that. Better mental health care on a national level, subsidised by tax payers and attempting to shed the stigma that goes along with mental health issues is one of the ways to combat it.

But it is not perfect and the same type of massacre can still happen...in the UK...in Japan...in Switzerland.

Originally posted by Chillmeister
... more compassionate treatment of the mentally ill is the way forward. Keep the same system and it will keep happening.

I agree, here.

Originally posted by Chillmeister
It will be a difficult thing to do, but America needs to decide whether it wants to address this issue properly. Talk about freedom all you want, but I wouldn't want my kids going to school in that country at the moment and I wouldn't want to live in a country where having weapons designed only to kill in family homes is shrugged off as necessary.

You can own plenty of guns in the UK, now, as well: FAC. You can also own shotguns: SGC.

The difference, I feel, is the culture of the British people, mixed in with some of your policies. You have much more strict gun control laws, iirc.

Originally posted by Ushgarak
Sure, but it's worth commenting on the days where you could walk into a chemist's store and order cocaine or send out a hamper of hard drugs to troops in the front line during World War I, both of which were possible in the UK.

Likewise, you could just walk into a wholesale armourers and buy handguns as you like (and such stores sold out when WWI began). So the lesson is- cultures change.

Yes...this.

What if they do gun control and some guy still does shit like this, but with a knife?

Massacres like this could happen anywhere, yes. But I don't understand how you don't think how easy it is to get guns in America is a contributing factor to these horrible massacres. These things don't happen in the UK, Switzerland or Japan with the same ridiculous and unacceptable frequency as they do in the US because access to firearms that can kill dozens in minutes, even seconds is on no where near the same scale.

You can own guns in the UK, yes. You have to have a licence for them though. I personally don't think you should be allowed to own them at all, but that's just me.

Originally posted by Colossus-Big C
What if they do gun control and some guy still does shit like this, but with a knife?

There wouldn't be anywhere near as many deaths, obviously.

There was a knife attack in a school in China on the same day as Newtown. 22 children attacked, no fatalities.

http://www.thenewamerican.com/usnews/crime/item/13946-china-school-knife-massacre-why-no-media-coverage

It's obscenely easy to get a gun in many parts of the US. I live in CA, so I'm lucky we have some of the more strict gun laws in the US, it's a 10-Day waiting period; you have to be 18 to buy shotguns/rifles and 21 to buy handguns, which also require you to have passed basic safety training, so you won't accidentally shoot yourself or someone else. Assault weapons are pretty much illegal to own, barring a few exceptions.

Other states though, you can walk in and walk out with a gun.

Originally posted by Chillmeister
Massacres like this could happen anywhere, yes. But I don't understand how you don't think how easy it is to get guns in America is a contributing factor to these horrible massacres. These things don't happen in the UK, Switzerland or Japan with the same ridiculous and unacceptable frequency as they do in the US because access to firearms that can kill dozens in minutes, even seconds is on no where near the same scale.

You can own guns in the UK, yes. You have to have a licence for them though. I personally don't think you should be allowed to own them at all, but that's just me.

There wouldn't be anywhere near as many deaths, obviously.

There was a knife attack in a school in China on the same day as Newtown. 22 children attacked, no fatalities.

http://www.thenewamerican.com/usnews/crime/item/13946-china-school-knife-massacre-why-no-media-coverage

Originally posted by Chillmeister
You can own guns in the UK, yes. You have to have a licence for them though. I personally don't think you should be allowed to own them at all, but that's just me.

I'm a law abiding citizen that refuses to own a gun (for now) so I would be completely unaffected. The only time I shoot, these days, is with other people's guns at ranges. So, I'm okay with you're suggestion...but it doesn't stop "the bad guys."