Who's the most powerful?

Originally posted by h1a8

So are you saying that Scathan acted like Spectre there. And he
was granted power from TOAA to muzzle Protege because of his righteous judgement.
In other words, without the judgement then Scathan would have been
powerless against Protege?

Then Scathan removed the muzzle (mind you Protege keeps his upgrade)
and while Scathan physically holds Protege,
then the LT judges him.

Originally posted by Mr Master
👆

Be certain opr616 before stating "the comic makes it clear" ...

An honest mistake I'm sure.

😐

Once again: Scathan stomped the combined power of the LT. Eternity, Hawkgod etc.

"muffling?" I'm assuming you didn't really read this story.

Beyonder coerced that non-existent future Doom into doing that.
It was Shooter's PIS way to make Beyonder curious while de-powered,
so he could return again in SWII looking for the meaning to the desire he felt while de-powered.
The latest explanation is that Beyonder's power went to Doom
because Doom wanted it more than Beyonder. lol.

Anyway, yea, Beyonder=THOTI ... and there's even a debate there
that could reasonably put Beyonder > HOTI.

btw. TOAA > THOTI

THOTI is TOAA's power withIN reality, but it was TOAA that
created THOTI/Thanos/the Omniverse/the LT and all that jazz
with the stroke of a pencil.

It was understood that Thanos was as powerful as TOAA. So for all practical purposes and without speculation it's best to assume that. If TOAA can create THOTI and still retain his powers then THOTI can be used to create another THOTI/Thanos/Megaverse/LT and all that jazz. He one shot killed Celestials. Beyonder wasn't shown that powerful in his engagement with the Celestials.

Anyway, the stealing of Beyonder's power automatically disqualifies him from top position. Without that, I still didn't get the impression that he was as powerful as Thanos here.

Didn't Beyonder "allow" Doom to take his powers?

^^ 👆 Grant it, they at-least used a stipulation.

Originally posted by h1a8

It was understood that Thanos was as powerful as TOAA. So for all
practical purposes and without speculation it's best to assume that. If
TOAA can create THOTI and still retain his powers then THOTI can be
used to create another THOTI/Thanos/Megaverse/LT and all that jazz.
He one shot killed Celestials. Beyonder wasn't shown that powerful in
his engagement with the Celestials.

It's simple. TOAA > THOTI

THOTI = supreme power withIN the Marvel omniverse.

TOAA = power that creates THOTI with the stoke of a pencil.

Simple.

Also, Beyonder didn't wanna kill Celestials, just beat the crap out of them hand to hand.

Originally posted by h1a8

Anyway, the stealing of Beyonder's power automatically disqualifies him from top position.

Originally posted by h1a8

Without that, I still didn't get the
impression that he was as powerful as Thanos here.

Beyonder never battled the LT, because the LT "trembled in fear,
and was "desperate."
Beyonder created from scratch the Beyond Realm though,
and it was quintillions of times larger than the trans-infinite Marvelverse.
That's an estimate accorrding to Shooter's analogy,
an Ocean (Beyond Realm) next to a droplet of water (infinite Marvelverse)

Originally posted by Mr Master
DC isn't my thing.

But concerning Marvel:

Beyonder/HOTI
Scathan
IG
Chaos King

btw. Scathan didn't just "judge" Protege, in fact, Scathan didn't "judge" Protege at all,
that was the LT. (while Scathan restrained Protege without the muzzle)

Scathan stomped the combined power of:
the Living Tribunal-All Eternity-Hawkgod (who was multiversal as well but below Eternity)
-Mephisto-his daughter Malevolence-GOTG, and Protege's own inherent base abilities.

Scathan stomped all that, with a gesture! 🙂

@Mr.M

I remember LT as being the only one being unaffected by Scathan when Scathan crashed the party. So in essence, he wasn't stomped per say.

Classic Beyonder
Cosmic Armor Superman
Mandrakk
GEB
Thanos w/ HOTU
Scathan
Chaos King
Adam Warlock w/ IG
Amazo w/ Worlogog
Spectre
SBP Time Trapper

Originally posted by Mr Master
^^ 👆 Grant it, they at-least used a stipulation.

I'm not here to do guesswork friend.

It's simple. TOAA > THOTI

THOTI = supreme power withIN the Marvel omniverse.

TOAA = power that creates THOTI with the stoke of a pencil.

Simple.

Also, Beyonder didn't wanna kill Celestials, just beat the crap out of them hand to hand.

I just explained the circumstances.
Or this Beyonder under the exact same stipulated conditions?

Thanos' top feat, absorbing/remaking the LT easily.
He also absorbed/recreated all space-time.

Beyonder never battled the LT, because the LT "trembled in fear,
and was "desperate."
Beyonder created from scratch the Beyond Realm though,
and it was quintillions of times larger than the trans-infinite Marvelverse.
That's an estimate accorrding to Shooter's analogy,
an Ocean (Beyond Realm) next to a droplet of water (infinite Marvelverse)

Ok TOAA>THOTI because of the pencil
But THOTI>>Beyonder no matter what feats he has since THOTI is the power of TOAA in Marvel. With the THOTI the cubes beings (beyonder) can be created.

Thanos w/ HOTU / Classic BeyonderClassic Beyonder
Cosmic Armor Superman
Mandrakk
GEB
Scathan
Chaos King
Adam Warlock w/ IG
Amazo w/ Worlogog
Spectre
SBP Time Trapper

Originally posted by zopzop
👆

Originally posted by Sundipped
@Mr.M

I remember LT as being the only one being unaffected by Scathan
when Scathan crashed the party. So in essence, he wasn't stomped per say.

He stomped Protege, who had their combined powers.

I don't think Scathan meant to stomp anyone else there,
they were just blown around from Scathan's unleashed power.
Scathan stomped Protege before he erased the the LT, Eternity & the rest.
This is exactly why Scathan interfered. The kid was gonna go too far.

Originally posted by h1a8

There is nothing outside the omniverse by definition.

Also in Marvel comics then there is nothing outside of Marvel as well.

This was confirmed by Shooter again
in that "Marvel Age" interview we've all seen many times:

Originally posted by h1a8

a)Ok TOAA>THOTI because of the pencil

b)But THOTI>>Beyonder no matter what feats he has since THOTI
is the power of TOAA in Marvel. With the THOTI the cubes beings
(beyonder) can be created.

b) Classic Beyonder is not a Cube being.

As for your comparison to TOAA and THOTI, one could argue that Beyonder
was Shooter's god-complex coming to life.

------------------------------------------------------

This is probably why ol' Jimmy had Stan Lee bowing to the Beyonder:

(left bottom corner ... top of his index finger ... Beyonder's right hand)

(top right corner)

😂 😛

-------------------------------------------------

Originally posted by carver9
Didn't Beyonder "allow" Doom to take his powers?

Don't ask again.

Originally posted by carver9
Didn't Beyonder "allow" Doom to take his powers?

Originally posted by Mr Master
🙂

Hey there good friend.

He stomped Protege, who had their combined powers.

I don't think Scathan meant to stomp anyone else there,
they were just blown around from Scathan's unleashed power.
Scathan stomped Protege before he erased the the LT, Eternity & the rest.
This is exactly why Scathan interfered. The kid was gonna go too far.

The Beyond Realm was outside all of Marvel at the time:

Ok but nothing is outside the omniverse. Beyonder was outside the multiverse that contained the 616 universe. When we say the term Marvel we mean anything and everything contained in Marvel comics. That means all universes inside or outside the multiverse that contains the 616 universe if it is written about in Marvel comics. Unless you mean to use the term Marvel Multiverse or even Marvel Universe.

This was confirmed by Shooter again
in that "Marvel Age" interview we've all seen many times:

a) 👆

b) Classic Beyonder is not a Cube being.

As for your comparison to TOAA and THOTI, one could argue that Beyonder
was Shooter's god-complex coming to life.

------------------------------------------------------

This is probably why ol' Jimmy had Stan Lee bowing to the Beyonder:

(left bottom corner ... top of his index finger ... Beyonder's right hand)

(top right corner)

😂 😛

-------------------------------------------------

But you know that's silly right? Stan Lee can just erase Beyonder with his pencil. He doesn't exist in real life.

Originally posted by h1a8

Ok but nothing is outside the omniverse. Beyonder was outside the
multiverse that contained the 616 universe. When we say the term
Marvel we mean anything and everything contained in Marvel comics.
That means all universes inside or outside the multiverse that contains
the 616 universe if it is written about in Marvel comics. Unless you
mean to use the term Marvel Multiverse or even Marvel Universe.

Two realities: Marvelverse and the Beyond Realm.

Today, All Eternity, just like back in 85,
is still contained withIN the same trans-infinite Prime Multiverse!

Originally posted by h1a8

But you know that's silly right? Stan Lee can just erase Beyonder
with his pencil. He doesn't exist in real life.

... jokes aside, I'm sorry friend, I don't think you realize how big time Beyonder was.

Prepless and armorless Doom.

bueno ya tu ve, y ahora que vino esa vyna de la pelicula señor de los aniyos,
yo boy a saqua pata elmano polque ahora e la hora de lo mama binbine.

Happy July 4 montro! KMC! Time to get lifted! stoned

Originally posted by tijay
What was the worlogog's powers

It grants the owner mastery of time and space.
It is also a complete map of the space time continuum

@TheGodKiller, @Mr. Master:

By disapproving of protege's action, scathan judged against him

http://i.imgur.com/CgIhabA.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/V7KP0De.jpg

in any case, that was not the final judgment, the final judgment was about to start:

http://i.imgur.com/o90dOgW.jpg

the LT decides what to do with protege, and it was up to scathan to approve or disapprove of this action, in which case he does approve:

http://i.imgur.com/i8I0eaI.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/mgZ8Q7L.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/EApDuTb.jpg

so from what i understand, scathan was the ultimate judge at the end of the story.

also, concerning Mr. Master's reply to H1a8, the omniverse was mentioned many times before secret wars.

to give you 2 examples:

year 1982 (which you are already aware of)

http://i.imgur.com/R3Iooq9.jpg?1

year 1983 (you'll have to zoom in to read it, i couldn't edit the image)

http://i.imgur.com/spgEmWm.gif

i can give you more, but this should prove my point.

so there wasn't just the beyond realm outside the multiverse, the omniverse existed at the time, it just didn't have a direct definition.

Originally posted by h1a8
So are you saying that Scathan acted like Spectre there. And he was granted power from TOAA to muzzle Protege because of his righteous judgement.
In other words, without the judgement then Scathan would have been powerless against Protege?

Originally posted by operator616

@TheGodKiller, @Mr. Master:

By disapproving of protege's action, scathan judged against him

http://i.imgur.com/CgIhabA.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/V7KP0De.jpg

in any case, that was not the final judgment, the final judgment was about to start:

http://i.imgur.com/o90dOgW.jpg

the LT decides what to do with protege, and it was up to scathan to approve or disapprove of this action, in which case he does approve:

http://i.imgur.com/i8I0eaI.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/mgZ8Q7L.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/EApDuTb.jpg

so from what i understand, scathan was the ultimate judge at the end of the story.

"The Celestials' (Scathan) purpose, is to record and Approve of what transpires"

(go get that scan cause I'm lazy right now)

But I have this one saved. Again, Scathan is there to:

"Judgement is upon you both! To that end, HE (Scathan) shall bear witness!"

Scathan is there to "observe" ... "witness" ... "approve" ...

LT = the Judge! ... Scathan = the Approver!

Originally posted by operator616

also, concerning Mr. Master's reply to H1a8, the omniverse was mentioned many
times before secret wars.

to give you 2 examples:

year 1982 (which you are already aware of)

http://i.imgur.com/R3Iooq9.jpg?1

year 1983 (you'll have to zoom in to read it, i couldn't edit the image)

http://i.imgur.com/spgEmWm.gif

i can give you more, but this should prove my point.

so there wasn't just the beyond realm outside the multiverse, the omniverse existed at the time, it just didn't have a direct definition.

First off, you funny. Didn't you just learn about that What If/LT scan not too long ago
when I posted it for ya? Anyway,
Yea, the LT stated the "omniversal constant" but we all know there was NO canon "omniverse" of multiple multiverses then.

You have to understand, it was written by Gruenwald, who came up with the term,
it meant "All Universes." That's nice, but ALL UniverseS in Marvel Pre-Nov. 1986
was the trans-infinite Multiverse.

So, when that term was used in that "What IF," back in 1982, it wasn't signifying multiple Multiverses.

---------------------------------------------

The second scan is from 1983, and its from the NON-Canon Marvel/UK line.
I can find you the term "omniverse" in that run far more than you can since I know it inside out.
It transitioned into canonicity in its re-prints which were published in off-mainstream titles. (94' and up)

btw. The Concept of, "infinite MultiverseS" didn't make its mark till 1992 in the Quasar book.

You won't find any suggestion/allusion that the "omniverse" referred to in those British books,
was anything more than an Infinite amount of alternative realities.
That goes for Marvel as well, which became more than an infinite multiverse
once the "New Universe" was introduced.

PS. No! You can't give me more, but I hope I enlightened your point.