Who's the most powerful?

Originally posted by Mr Master

LT = the Judge! ... Scathan = the Approver!

The times Scathan gave either the thumbs up or thumbs down gesture, it was straight up stated on panel that "Scathan does not approve!" or "Scathan approves!".

The LT was the Judge, Scathan was there to give the thumbs up/thumbs down to the judgement that was handed down by the LT. And since the LT is a servant of TOAA, he's not gonna come down with a rubbish judgement, hence Scathan approving of what was decided by the LT.

^^ 👆 ... This one is pretty cut and dry.

Originally posted by byrdgang21
Rank these guys in order of overall power & impressiveness.

Cosmic Armor Superman
Amazo w/ Worlogog
Thanos w/ HOTU
Adam Warlock w/ IG
Scathan
Mandrakk
GEB
Chaos King
SBP Time Trapper
Spectre
Classic Beyonder

Originally posted by Mr Master
I disagree my friend. Scathan never "judged" Protege. Only the LT did.

"The Celestials' (Scathan) purpose, is to record and Approve of what transpires"

(go get that scan cause I'm lazy right now)

But I have this one saved. Again, Scathan is there to:

"Judgement is upon you both! To that end, HE (Scathan) shall bear witness!"

Scathan is there to "observe" ... "witness" ... "approve" ...

LT = the Judge! ... Scathan = the Approver!

"the omniverse was mentioned many times before secret wars" ... 😂

First off, you funny. Didn't you just learn about that What If/LT scan not too long ago
when I posted it for ya? Anyway,
Yea, the LT stated the "omniversal constant" but we all know there was NO canon "omniverse" of multiple multiverses then.

You have to understand, it was written by Gruenwald, who came up with the term,
it meant "All Universes." That's nice, but ALL UniverseS in Marvel Pre-Nov. 1986
was the trans-infinite Multiverse.

So, when that term was used in that "What IF," back in 1982, it wasn't signifying multiple Multiverses.

---------------------------------------------

The second scan is from 1983, and its from the NON-Canon Marvel/UK line.
I can find you the term "omniverse" in that run far more than you can since I know it inside out.
It transitioned into canonicity in its re-prints which were published in off-mainstream titles. (94' and up)

btw. The Concept of, "infinite MultiverseS" didn't make its mark till 1992 in the Quasar book.

You won't find any suggestion/allusion that the "omniverse" referred to in those British books,
was anything more than an Infinite amount of alternative realities.
That goes for Marvel as well, which became more than an infinite multiverse
once the "New Universe" was introduced.

PS. No! You can't give me more, but I hope I enlightened your point.

let's not split hairs here, by approving or disapproving he's acting like a judge, he judged against protege lest the latter endangers reality, and he judged in favor of.....protege being absorbed by the LT.

no, i was aware of that before you presented it to me, here's the link:

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=579927&pagenumber=2

🙂

wait so daredevils and mighty world of marvel are all non canon?

we really don't know what it signified, since marvel did not have a definition for the omniverse back then, and if they were referring to the infinite universes (which is the multiverse) then why didn't they just use the term multiverse in the first place? instead they used omniverse, which obviously signifies something greater.

also, where was it mentioned in 1992 that the omniverse is specifically, INFINITE multiverses?

to my knowledge, the infinite multiverses came in 2001, mutant x #32:

http://i.imgur.com/TzEl7En.jpg

mutant x annual 2001, even states that there are past, present and future multiverses.

http://i.imgur.com/CVGtgFJ.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/jDNargr.jpg

another important note is that multiverses are apparently references as some sort of timeline (a couple of multiverses ago), x-treme x-men #2 (2012)

http://i.imgur.com/zY3WE9W.jpg

that seems weird tho.

Originally posted by operator616

let's not split hairs here, by approving or disapproving he's
acting like a judge, he judged against protege lest the latter
endangers reality, and he judged in favor of.....protege being
absorbed by the LT.

This isn't hair-splitting, just simple on panel factual truth.

Originally posted by operator616

no, i was aware of that before you presented it to me, here's the link:

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=579927&pagenumber=2

You were debating against the LT being "omniversal"
when I posted that What If/LT scan, (mind you I was joking then)
but Now,
you use the same scan you were arguing against to claim there was an "omniverse" back then.

😐

Anyway ... the hilarity of it, is that in the very same page,
the LT calls the infinite UniverseS of Marvel: "The Multiverse itself"

"I am the supreme judiciary for the Entire Continuum of
UniverseS, the Multiverse itself"

🙂 ... gotta pay attention my friend.

Originally posted by operator616

wait so daredevils and mighty world of marvel are all non canon?

Originally posted by operator616

we really don't know what it signified, since marvel did not have a definition for
the omniverse back then, and if they were referring to the infinite universes (which
is the multiverse) then why didn't they just use the term multiverse in the first place?
instead they used omniverse, which obviously signifies something greater.

As to why they interchanged the terms, is beyond anyone to know but the editors.
But I have Captain Britain books where sometimes all reality is the Multiverse,
and sometimes the omniverse.

Originally posted by operator616

also, where was it mentioned in 1992 that the omniverse is specifically, INFINITE multiverses?

to my knowledge, the infinite multiverses came in 2001, mutant x #32:

http://i.imgur.com/TzEl7En.jpg

But in 1992, the Quasar book confirmed a "Continuum of MultiverseS" outside
all Eternity/Infinity:

[img=http://s3d4.turboimagehost.com/t/16172256_Omni_Quasar.jpg]
[img=http://s3d4.turboimagehost.com/t/16172260_Omni_Quasar2.jpg]

Originally posted by operator616

mutant x annual 2001, even states that there are past, present and future multiverses.

http://i.imgur.com/CVGtgFJ.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/jDNargr.jpg

Originally posted by operator616

another important note is that multiverses are apparently references as some
sort of timeline (a couple of multiverses ago), x-treme x-men #2 (2012)

http://i.imgur.com/zY3WE9W.jpg

that seems weird tho.

That aside, unless they're talking about multiverses as in "distance,"
example: ten steps away, ten multiverses away ....
unless it's that, I have no idea what that means.

Originally posted by Mr Master

Yea, there we go.

You were debating against the LT being "omniversal"
when I posted that What If/LT scan, (mind you I was joking then)
but Now,
you use the same scan you were arguing against to claim there was an "omniverse" back then.

you can go ahead and quote me when i said that, because if you re-read the debate, i was clearly arguing that LT was not operating on an omniversal scale, i never mentioned that marvel didn't have an omniverse back then......

and you'll have to forgive me that i didn't accept LT stating "by the omniversal constant" as evidence that he was omniversal, because going by that logic, batman can say this sentence as well, does that make him omniversal?

Originally posted by operator616
let's not split hairs here, by approving or disapproving he's acting like a judge, he judged against protege lest the latter endangers reality, and he judged in favor of.....protege being absorbed by the LT.

He disapproves of the Protege's manhandling of the court :

The LT JUDGES the Protege and finds him guilty :

Scathan has no say in this, in fact it was the LT that ORDERED Scathan to remove the muzzle blinding the Protege so he could witness the LT's judgement.

Only AFTER the LT has made his decision, then Scathan approves of the LT's JUDGEMENT on the Protege :

In truth this was a kangaroo court, Scathan was NEVER going to disapprove of the LT's judgement because the LT acts on behalf of TOAA.

^^ 👆

Originally posted by operator616

you can go ahead and quote me when i said that, because if you
re-read the debate, i was clearly arguing that LT was not operating on
an omniversal scale, i never mentioned that marvel didn't have an
omniverse back then......

Selective debating? (anyway who cares, lets move forward)

Originally posted by operator616

and you'll have to forgive me that i didn't accept LT stating "by
the omniversal constant" as evidence that he was omniversal,
because going by that logic, batman can say this sentence as well,
does that make him omniversal?

btw. opr616, I think yur doing a great job, I like yur style, this is how we all learn.

all i said regarding your scan is that it doesn't prove that LT is omniversal since it's a statement coming from his mouth not an actual feat for him.
you're not getting the point.............the scan shows that the omniverse exists but it doesn't show that LT is omniversal, so i am right on both accounts.

and yeah, i still strongly believe that LT was weak when compared to his current status, to give you a wonderful example, this is actually going to be embarrassing for him but you forced my hand:

LT actually fought nebulos, and it was a very tough fight for him:

http://i.imgur.com/KMqitGP.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/cTkQRjn.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/tagrr0x.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/3Fwli8v.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/QrYh8ds.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/TLXxcuu.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/GGrvBC4.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/LL1ZukB.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/ckIxLDK.jpg

yeah, everything LT threw at him, his staff absorbed it, to the point where LT was so helpless that he actually had to blackmail nebulos.

and what really is the most hilarious thing about this fight is this particular page:

http://i.imgur.com/LL1ZukB.jpg

nebulos can protect himself just fine against LT's cosmic bolts yet he is helpless to stop the crumbling cliffs.

also you'll notice that strange helped him defeat nebulos which is also confirmed by the bio:

http://i.imgur.com/MTm0uUg.jpg?1

Nebulos' staff was amped tbh, but it shouldn't even take notice of the current LT, it's nothing compared to him.

i actually did post a scan from this same arc/event in the other thread, i just didn't emphasize on the instance.

compare the above performance ^ to this, fantastic four annual #23

http://i.imgur.com/D6j7in7.jpg

so im going to ask you (or anyone for that matter): d'you actually believe that current LT could pull off such a pathetic performance as he did in those strange tales issues?

Originally posted by zopzop
Exactly Mr. M. This isn't even debatable.

The times Scathan gave either the thumbs up or thumbs down gesture, it was straight up stated on panel that "Scathan does not approve!" or "Scathan approves!".

The LT was the Judge, Scathan was there to give the thumbs up/thumbs down to the judgement that was handed down by the LT. And since the LT is a servant of TOAA, he's not gonna come down with a rubbish judgement, hence Scathan approving of what was decided by the LT.

Originally posted by Branlor Swift
Iron Fist

Originally posted by operator616

all i said regarding your scan is that it doesn't prove that LT is
omniversal since it's a statement coming from his mouth not an
actual feat for him.

you're not getting the point.............the scan shows that the
omniverse exists but it doesn't show that LT is omniversal, so i am
right on both accounts.

It's completely and unequivocally wrong on both accounts.

The scan only shows that the UniverseS of Marvel make up a Multiverse:

[img=http://s3d4.turboimagehost.com/t/16177526_LT.jpg]

"I am the supreme judiciary for the Entire Continuum of UniverseS, the Multiverse itself"

-------------------------------------------------------

I'm guessing you're still not paying attention friend and just throwing scans around,
I was going to let this go, but you've decided to make a discussion of it.

Gruenwald (creator of the term "omniverse"😉 wrote the Korvac 'What If' ...
The term was obviously meant in its original context, that is, ALL UniverseS!

Again, and for the last time, The Marvelverse was a single Multiverse up until Nov. 1986.

You have an issue with that fact, email Marvel and complain.

Originally posted by operator616

and yeah, i still strongly believe that LT was weak when compared to his current
status, to give you a wonderful example, this is actually going to be embarrassing
for him but you forced my hand:

LT actually fought nebulos, and it was a very tough fight for him:

http://i.imgur.com/KMqitGP.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/cTkQRjn.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/tagrr0x.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/3Fwli8v.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/QrYh8ds.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/TLXxcuu.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/GGrvBC4.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/LL1ZukB.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/ckIxLDK.jpg

yeah, everything LT threw at him, his staff absorbed it, to the point where LT was so
helpless that he actually had to blackmail nebulos.
what really is the most hilarious thing about this fight is this particular page:
nebulos can protect himself just fine against LT's cosmic bolts yet he is helpless to
stop the crumbling cliffs.
also you'll notice that strange helped him defeat nebulos which is also confirmed by the bio:
Nebulos' staff was amped tbh, but it shouldn't even take notice of the current LT, it's
nothing compared to him.

compare the above performance ^ to this, fantastic four annual #23
http://i.imgur.com/D6j7in7.jpg

... "forced your hand?" lol

Anyway, way ta go on comparing a story from 1967 with another from 1990. (23 Years apart)
Yea, I "forced your hand" to reach to the moon with this comedy.
Dude, the writing Pre-83' was geared solely towards kids.

That aside, your Nebulos account is off.

Nebulos was running from the LT like a b*tch.
Nebulos never affected the LT in any way.
Nebulos was in awe of the LT's power.

But this OLD ass story is so OLD! cheesy and PISSY ...

... that Nebulos can absorb the LT's bolts, but can't stop a crumbling cliff?

😂

Anyway, Dr Strange didn't save the LT, and the LT didn't need him at all,
in fact, the LT stated so. It was Dr Strange on his own who decided to interfere.

Originally posted by operator616

so im going to ask you (or anyone for that matter): d'you actually believe that
current LT could pull off such a pathetic performance as he did in those strange
tales issues?

But to answer yur inquiry. Absolutely, just look at Last Planet Standing,
where the LT needed to combine his power with several Cosmics just to eliminate
an Alternate Galactus.
Reed was also able to use Plot against the LT/Cosmics which is more laughable still.
Do I take this horseshit into consideration? Of course not cause it's senseless PIS.

Our job as forum debaters is to filter the nonsense, connect the reasonable dots,
and arrive at a sensible conclusion.

^
actually, no, you didn't get my point at all, im not arguing the definition of the omniverse right now (because there is no direct definition for it, and when there's no evidence, i don't argue)

let me give you an example:

here, strange mentions the terms 'metaverse' in his statement (new mutants v3 #44)

http://i.imgur.com/jUFbnoL.jpg?1

can this particular scan be used to prove that marvel has a meta-verse? yes it can.

can this same scan be used to prove that strange has meta-versal power levels? no it cannot.

same thing with the what if scan, can it be used to prove that marvel has an omniverse? yes it can.

can it be used to prove that LT is omniversal? no it cannot.

so can you point out how is this exactly selective debating?

to sum up your counterargument:

1. posting a facepalm
2. lol
3. saying that pre-83 stories are for kids (though i find it funny that it coincides as being the year right before secret wars)

and yeah, you actually did force my hand, because i tried to avoid posting that pathetic showing for LT but seeing how you continue to claim that current LT is the same LT as he's always been (which includes 1967), i decided to include that. and i have more, but looking at your counterargument, think i'll pass.

i actually did foresee you bringing up the last planet standing showing for him, but if you look at it, it really doesnt even compare:

galactus was a confirmed multiversal threat in that arc, and vanquishing him would result in galaxy-level collateral damage

http://i.imgur.com/Xd2hUqN.jpg

while here, the battle between LT and nebulos was destroying mountains for god's sake:

http://i.imgur.com/TLXxcuu.jpg

how is this even remotely comparable? not to mention that we also see an alternate version of reed capable of conquering the omniverse (evidence already provided in another thread)

btw, regarding this statement

'way ta go on comparing a story from 1967 with another from 1990. (23 Years apart)'

are you for real with this? are you comprehending what i'm saying? my ENTIRE ARGUMENT is based on comparing LT's earlier showings with his later showings, and then you go on and post this?........................

Originally posted by operator616
^
actually, no, you didn't get my point at all, im not arguing the definition of the
omniverse right now (because there is no direct definition for it, and when there's
no evidence, i don't argue)
let me give you an example:
here, strange mentions the terms 'metaverse' in his statement (new mutants v3 #44)
http://i.imgur.com/jUFbnoL.jpg?1
can this particular scan be used to prove that marvel has a meta-verse? yes it can.
can this same scan be used to prove that strange has meta-versal power levels? no it cannot.
same thing with the what if scan, can it be used to prove that marvel has an
omniverse? yes it can.
can it be used to prove that LT is omniversal? no it cannot.
so can you point out how is this exactly selective debating?
to sum up your counterargument:
1. posting a facepalm
2. lol
3. saying that pre-83 stories are for kids (though i find it funny that it coincides as
being the year right before secret wars)
and yeah, you actually did force my hand, because i tried to avoid posting that
pathetic showing for LT but seeing how you continue to claim that current LT is the
same LT as he's always been (which includes 1967), i decided to include that. and
i have more, but looking at your counterargument, think i'll pass.
i actually did foresee you bringing up the last planet standing showing for him, but if
you look at it, it really doesnt even compare:
galactus was a confirmed multiversal threat in that arc, and vanquishing him would
result in galaxy-level collateral damage
http://i.imgur.com/Xd2hUqN.jpg
while here, the battle between LT and nebulos was destroying mountains for god's sake:
http://i.imgur.com/TLXxcuu.jpg
how is this even remotely comparable? not to mention that we also see an
alternate version of reed capable of conquering the omniverse (evidence already
provided in another thread)

Relax, then come back. Right now you're all over the place.
Your Strange example is meaningless since Strange isn't and never has been
the most powerful entity/being in even just the Universe,
nor has he ever been "Judge" of All Realities!

While the Living Tribunal Always has been! of the freakin Multiverse in fact
and anything else that the Marvelverse contains. Save only for TOAA.

So if the LT were to suggest the existence of an Omniverse, and an Omniverse is simply All Realities!
Then gosh-darnit it would make perfect sense that the LT is, well ... "omniversal?"

What the hell does a statement from Dr Strange have to with a statement from the likes of the LT?

Also, I don't care what hyperbole was stated about that alternate Galactus,
the LT should not need help to off any Galactus.

... friend ... please.

Originally posted by operator616

btw, regarding this statement
'way ta go on comparing a story from 1967 with another from 1990. (23 Years apart)'
are you for real with this? are you comprehending what i'm saying? my ENTIRE
ARGUMENT is based on comparing LT's earlier showings with his later showings,
and then you go on and post this?........................

The LT, or anyone else for that matter performing super feats was seldom back then,
it has nothing to do with the LT's status/power withIn the Marvel Universe,
its just that destroying a universe was a big deal then, heck even a galaxy,
but through the years stories have allowed for powerful characters to truly exhibit their abilities.
In Marvel, that crescendo came in the form of the Beyonder.
Secret Wars basically blew up comics for Marvel
the way Clinton's schlong blew up Lewinsky's career.