I give it to Kizaru since he can't be touched and his beams do pack a punch so I don't see Tien lasting long (if Tien gets hit by one of those beams that destroyed one of those large mangroves it'll hurt). I also think Kizaru DF won't effected by the DBZ powerlevel system, since his powers isn't a form a ki.
I want to point out one last thing. Since base Goku is stronger than Tien, he'll (tien) have a extremely difficult time fighting off the Admiral in a physically fight since Goku wasn't able to accomplish lifting 40 tons in his normal state. Tiens tuff, but I definately see him going down in this match.
Originally posted by dvampire
I give it to Kizaru since he can't be touched and his beams do pack a punch so I don't see Tien lasting long (if Tien gets hit by one of those beams that destroyed one of those large mangroves it'll hurt). I also think Kizaru DF won't effected by the DBZ powerlevel system, since his powers isn't a form a ki.
Tien's blasts should work just fine, supernatural attacks and willpower-based attacks can hurt logia.
And no, one of those blasts that hit the mangrove would *not* hurt Tien, he can and has handled much stronger ones.
Saying 'Kizaru DF won't effected by the DBZ powerlevel system, since his powers isn't a form a ki.' is silly, because the power is, well, power, it doesn't rely on ki, it works against fighters that don't use ki like androids or magic beings.
Tien also has some psychic and magic techniques. Not much, but he 's done telekinesis and the evil containment wave.
Originally posted by dvampire
I want to point out one last thing. Since base Goku is stronger than Tien, he'll (tien) have a extremely difficult time fighting off the Admiral in a physically fight since Goku wasn't able to accomplish lifting 40 tons in his normal state. Tiens tuff, but I definately see him going down in this match.
Yet in Dragonball, he was pushing a 600 ton boulder without much issue.
The 40 ton thing makes no sense he wasnt lifting it he was wearing it while hovering in the air so its completely different also its in other world so the gravity is unknown also its a gag scene and an outlier feat in the incredibly low end so its useless in a real debate where combat feats put the lifting and hitting power into the ridiculous highs
Using the 40 tons scene as Goku's strength cap is lulz-worthy.
During his trip to Namek, Goku was training under 100G. Assuming Goku weighs around 200lbs, then that puts his weight /w/ 100G at 20,000lbs or 10 tons. Now, if Goku was wearing his training clothing, then that adds an additional 250lbs, which puts his gross weight at roughly 450lbs, and his 100G weight at 45,000lbs or 22.5 tons! Whether it was 10 tons or 22.5 tons, Goku, with a PL of 90,000, was able to move around in said gravity easily(he even commented on how effortless the training had become-- he wasn't even getting fatigued toward the end.) Fast-forward to the Cell Games, and Goku's PL (even in his base form) was in the tens-of-millions. By the time of the Buu saga, Goku (obviously) became several times more powerful still.... Yet he supposedly had trouble lifting 40 tons? Yeah, it doesn't make any sense.
Heck, I'll even use Vegeta as an example: at the very end of the Frieza saga, base-level Vegeta(PL=4,000,000) was training under 300G. Assuming Vegeta also weighs around 200lbs, then that puts his weight /w/ 300G at 60,000lbs or 30 tons!
And like I said above: during the Cell saga alone, Vegeta's power increased several times over, yet Goku was still vastly more powerful. And by the time of the Buu saga(when he supposedly struggled to lift 40 tons), Goku's overall power had increased to epic proportions--- as had Vegeta's, but obviously to a lesser extent.
To recap: Buu-era Goku struggling to lift a mere 40 tons is utterly laughable and can swiftly be written off just by using a little common sense/logic.
Fast-forward to the Cell Games, and Goku's PL (even in his base form) was in the tens-of-millions. By the time of the Buu saga, Goku (obviously) became several times more powerful still.... Yet he supposedly had trouble lifting 40 tons? Yeah, it doesn't make any sense.
Just in base form and non-powered up, which doesn't have all those tens of millions, and less well distributed than gravity does.
Heck, I'll even use Vegeta as an example: at the very end of the Frieza saga, base-level Vegeta(PL=4,000,000) was training under 300G. Assuming Vegeta also weighs around 200lbs, then that puts his weight /w/ 300G at 60,000lbs or 30 tons!
And almost killed by it! Also, his official weight is 123 lbs, so well below 30 tons.
Physical strength doesn't scale up at the same rate as power level. Vegeta in the millions had problem with not-all-that much more weight than Goku in the tens of thousands.
Originally posted by Q99By the Cell Games, SSJ Goku's PL was in the billions. So yes, the PL of his base form had to have been in the tens-of-millions, whether you like it or not... And by the Buu-era, he was many times more powerful still, whether you like it or not.
Just in base form and non-powered up, which doesn't have all those tens of millions, and less well distributed than gravity does.
Originally posted by Q99In the anime filler, you mean! If we are going to use said filler, then I should point out that by the end of his training, base-level Vegeta(PL=4,000,000) was training in 450G for an extended period of time! And he was effortlessly doing so! What I mean is: his speed, even under that much gravity, still seemed quite significant, as he was able to faze in and out, etc.:
And almost killed by it!
Did 450G tire him out? Sure. However, that much gravity was obviously very far from his max limit, given the speed he displayed.
Originally posted by Q99That's Vegeta, though. After the Saiyan saga, he was never really comparable to Goku... He became the proverbial punching bag.
Physical strength doesn't scale up at the same rate as power level. Vegeta in the millions had problem with not-all-that much more weight than Goku in the tens of thousands.
Originally posted by Galan007
Also, where was it stated that Vegeta only weighs 123lbs? I know he's a little guy, but that still seems awfully light, given the amount of muscle mass he's got. /shrug
The "Super Exciting Guide: Character Volume," a sourcebook released by Shueisha a few years back.
It does strike me as a bit low due to the muscles, but not that far off. He should be well below 200.
In the anime filler, you mean! If we are going to use said filler, then I should point out that by the end of his training, base-level Vegeta(PL=4,000,000) was training in 450G for an extended period of time! And he was effortlessly doing so! What I mean is: his speed, even under that much gravity, still seemed quite significant, as he was able to faze in and out, etc.:
That's the thing- it takes many times the power to handle moderately more weight.
450g still isn't that much weight. And that's over the entire body, his limbs are far far lighter than his total weight increase.
That's Vegeta, though. After the Saiyan saga, he was never really comparable to Goku... He became the proverbial punching bag.
When they were in the same form they were fairly equal, Goku just had higher forms.