Originally posted by h1a8
Wind Vortex is a very slow attack.
A thunderclap is far faster than anything Thor could do exotic wise.
Also you are using Thor's best feats (some PIS ones too) as the one WBH will face here.
Wouldn't this fight be with a typical slightly above average Thor?Even using high end Thor then WBH can operate far faster than what Thor can do. Even if WBH allows Thor to start draining him then WBH won't be immobilized. WBH can still move an fight while being drained. If he knocks Thor in the process then WBH instantly gains his energy back (INSTANTLY!)
Considering that Thor isn't too many times more durable than Savage Hulk or those mindless ones then it is fair to say he will be killed or koed in one shot.
Celestial blasts feat should be considered PIS since it contradicts the entire history of comics by a vast amount, including that Odin nor the Destroyer could stand against the Celestials. It's worst than Spider-man vs. Firelord. Using the feat would suggest that Thor can't even be harmed by his own father, which we know is false.
You don't get to talk to me until you respond to the challenge bro. You're not wasting my time anymore. 👆
Originally posted by zopzop
That the feat is meaningless and WBH would shake off that attack and shove that hammer so far up Thor's ass that his breath would smell like shit encrusted Uru.WBH wins.
😆 you're so mad I can't take you very seriously. I hope you don't think you're clever or something.
Originally posted by zopzop
That the feat is meaningless and WBH would shake off that attack and shove that hammer so far up Thor's ass that his breath would smell like shit encrusted Uru.WBH wins.
Wasn't the Chaos King beating the shit out of Hercules until Thor's lightning bolt? Does anyone have the scans? It's been a while.
But if I do recall the scene correctly, than Thor's attack not only was felt by the Chaos King but it was enough to turn the tide, or at least packed sufficient power to delay for him and allow Hercules to recompose himself.
Either way, it was a very impressive feat.
Originally posted by Damborgson
Cheap but effective 😎Definitely not by natural wind. But magic laced wind? His wind has hurt Glory and it's hard to see the Hulk resisting something that can uproot the ground beneath him. How would he hold on or brace against that? Yes Hulk has changed direction in midair via thunderclaps before (lol), but under no special circumstances iirc. These would indeed be special circumstances.
He converted that blast to magic from the looks of it also, making it a potent blast that can and should rough the Hulk up.
He's never really had the oppurtunity to drain him tbh. He tends to go for auras like Kang, presence, Electro, etc.
I suppose he could if wanted to, but then that would be going into things he's never tried. He can and has drained radiation however, and the upperlimits of Mjolnir's ability to absorb energy are around galaxy busting. He could very well drain until Hulk reverts to a weaker form. Either creating an opening for his teammate or for himself. Or just turn him to Banner. Once Thor's started draining even once his opponents aura is gone he can still keep going. And he has much better draining capabilities than Armageddon does. Mjolnir ftw.
The Hulk's never really been a threat like he is here though. I've pretty well looked at every fight they've ever had and in almost all of them, Thor's been able to simply melee with he Hulk to a standstill. Thor being => Savage Hulk in strength at the beginning of the fight being the reason more likely than not. This is not the case here. There is no doubt at all that if someone is going down last, It's Thor. And his durability is known to be legendary for a reason. He has damage soak feats that basically shit on anyone in his league and puts him at a higher level. (Recent jobbings excluded.) I'm not even talking about Celestial blasts, or Galactus or anything. While it'd be definitely in his best interest not to be struck, the chances of his head being popped off are pretty low. Not with one hit anyway.
And again this should take care of things pretty nicely:
I'd like to see how you get past Thor's overwhelming hammer to face advantage.
heh.Aight, then if you're down I definitely am. I'll PM you a bit later.
I dont doubt that his winds at their highest end levels can hurt the Hulk somewhat, but unless they are blowing away the planet and leave him floating in space i highly doubt they will be blowing him all over the place. IIRC Hulk has changed direction in midair without thunderclapping more than once (thats comics for ya). Thor attempting to use his wind on the Hulk would also mean that he is himself open to the shockwaves from a thunderclap which would likely at least ko him or incapacitate him. The fact is the only way Thor can hang at all here is using solely ultra high end out of character power combinations.
Only Thors highest end blasts are roughing this Hulk up, and i mean highest end as the level of durability required to survive unscathed at the epicentre of the impact whose residual shockwaves disintegrated the race of mindless ones whose combined power was so great that a skyfather in her own realm couldnt put them down, ( along with bi beast wendigo, armcheddon amped fing foom, the dark dimension throneworld and mindless ones realm and nearby moon) is absolutely insane. Despite how h1 sometimes presents it, the truth is that the force at epicenter of the impact IS astronomically (several several zeros) more than what was in the shockwave. There is no getting around that.
Draining would honestly be Thors best shot here, but given the isolated instances of him using this and non-existent instances of him using this against Hulk, I cant see it as in character for him to use this from the get go if at all. I re-iterate again Thor has never seen fit to drain Hulk internal energy even when Hulk was on prolonged rampages threatening his friends and even human life. I mean Red Hulk actually absorbed Thors Odinforce instead of Thor simply trying to drain him. Him immediately getting the bright idea here to just go for the drain and be done with it is just highly unlikely. If he even does drain the excess energy WBH is emitting immediately, that doesnt mean he will then go after Hulks internal energy (what actually makes him this powerful) when he hasnt even remotely thought of doing so once in all of their encounters. Certainly not before Hulk punches, misses a punch, thunderclaps, etc
Hulk has never been a threat like he is here, but by the time Thor finds that out it will be too late as he would have resorted to what he does consistently against Hulk and characters of his type. I mean even against characters where Thor has been outmatched strengthwise (Mangog,destroyer.Durok etc) he has still mixed it up for prolonged periods. No doubt he will at least attempt it here which will lead to his death. Save taking his highest end feats in isolation from the rest of his history, I honestly cannot see how Thor would realistically take one direct hit from WBH when we truly consider that the residual shockwave (an astronomically weaker force than the direct impact) of he and betty's punches accomplished what Umar in her own dimension (a legit demon lord/skyfather with the flames of regency too boot) could not accomplish (take out the totality of the mindless ones which is nearly infinitely harder than taking out one or two regardless of their fluctuating individual levels of durability). Quite frankly it is difficult to see how he would even surivive that shockwave going by anything but very highest end portrayals
On average, his head would be popped off almost certainly (along with the rest of his body being disintegrating) by a direct hit.
Oh and the Surfer Thor BZ would have to be in a few weeks cause i dont have my computer or comic scans right now.
Originally posted by Naija boy
I dont doubt that his winds at their highest end levels can hurt the Hulk somewhat, but unless they are blowing away the planet and leave him floating in space i highly doubt they will be blowing him all over the place. IIRC Hulk has changed direction in midair without thunderclapping more than once (thats comics for ya). Thor attempting to use his wind on the Hulk would also mean that he is himself open to the shockwaves from a thunderclap which would likely at least ko him or incapacitate him. The fact is the only way Thor can hang at all here is using solely ultra high end out of character power combinations.Only Thors highest end blasts are roughing this Hulk up, and i mean highest end as the level of durability required to survive unscathed at the epicentre of the impact whose residual shockwaves disintegrated the race of mindless ones whose combined power was so great that a skyfather in her own realm couldnt put them down, ( along with bi beast wendigo, armcheddon amped fing foom, the dark dimension throneworld and mindless ones realm and nearby moon) is absolutely insane. Despite how h1 sometimes presents it, the truth is that the force at epicenter of the impact IS astronomically (several several zeros) more than what was in the shockwave. There is no getting around that.
Draining would honestly be Thors best shot here, but given the isolated instances of him using this and non-existent instances of him using this against Hulk, I cant see it as in character for him to use this from the get go if at all. I re-iterate again Thor has never seen fit to drain Hulk internal energy even when Hulk was on prolonged rampages threatening his friends and even human life. I mean Red Hulk actually absorbed Thors Odinforce instead of Thor simply trying to drain him. Him immediately getting the bright idea here to just go for the drain and be done with it is just highly unlikely. If he even does drain the excess energy WBH is emitting immediately, that doesnt mean he will then go after Hulks internal energy (what actually makes him this powerful) when he hasnt even remotely thought of doing so once in all of their encounters. Certainly not before Hulk punches, misses a punch, thunderclaps, etc
Hulk has never been a threat like he is here, but by the time Thor finds that out it will be too late as he would have resorted to what he does consistently against Hulk and characters of his type. I mean even against characters where Thor has been outmatched strengthwise (Mangog,destroyer.Durok etc) he has still mixed it up for prolonged periods. No doubt he will at least attempt it here which will lead to his death. Save taking his highest end feats in isolation from the rest of his history, I honestly cannot see how Thor would realistically take one direct hit from WBH when we truly consider that the residual shockwave (an astronomically weaker force than the direct impact) of he and betty's punches accomplished what Umar in her own dimension (a legit demon lord/skyfather with the flames of regency too boot) could not accomplish (take out the totality of the mindless ones which is nearly infinitely harder than taking out one or two regardless of their fluctuating individual levels of durability). Quite frankly it is difficult to see how he would even surivive that shockwave going by anything but very highest end portrayals
On average, his head would be popped off almost certainly (along with the rest of his body being disintegrating) by a direct hit.
Oh and the Surfer Thor BZ would have to be in a few weeks cause i dont have my computer or comic scans right now.
It wouldn't be offensive as far as he'd use it to just suspend the Hulk in midair. He'd have to get the Hulk off the ground because just assaulting him with wind would indeed destroy the planet before gaining the desired effect. THAT SAID, the planet would also be destroyed from Hulk's attacks. Meaning that for him to stay on stable ground and avoid a fight against multiple fliers while he is dangling in space, he should avoid dark dimension attacks. It depends what you see as out of character. From the beginning I said that the tools to win are there for Thor, and they are. That's why I haven't mentioned anything that he hasn't done in the comics. To avoid him turning into a fan controlled Thor. It's true that Thor likes melee better than the strategies I've put out there, but he has used the strategies I'm talking about without going into melee before. It isn't anything overly extravagant to be honest.
Yes. But that's not what was being discussed. Thor's power would take some pretty high end techs to hurt Hulk (some would kill) but in the scenario I put out, he's just redirecting a 10X magic blast from the energy he absorbed from Hulk. Using enormous energies to his benefit, instead of his own lightning which at its average display of power would not be enough to compete at this point.
To be able to argue against something, I need to be fully educated on it first. So I'm quite aware of the magnitude of the feat, and just ignore H1 because he's H1. I'll harass him every now then and that's about it. I don't doubt the sheer magnitude of the power displayed though.
I can see it as a very real possibility. Unlike this particular Hulk, Thor has 50 years of consistency and inconsistency to call on and be called on. And while the number of hammer smack vastly outnumber the number of draining he's done, the instances are there to be used. And here on the forum where Thor isn't as hampered by plot, the chances of him using it increase.
When has Thor ever drained a being that wasn't displaying a radiating energy off his body though? Thor's taken advantage of direct energy blasts, auras, thrown his hammer to intercept and absorb blasts, but never has he tried draining a brick. Because there was nothing to drain. Otherwise you'd be I'd be in a Superman vs Thor thread running my mouth off on how Thor can tear the solar energy from Superman's body without a blast needing to fired or anything. This particular Hulk happens to have this exploitable weakness.
Naija...c'mon bro. you and I both know what was up with Red Hulk vs Thor. While something that needs to lived with, was filled with so much PIS that I can't really understand how it's still getting used as evidence.
Even an average portrayal by Thor is > anyone that died from the shockwave though. And while rightly gets a large amount of the credit for that feat, so does Betty. It took both of them slamming into each other pretty damn fast to do it. There punches were still causing destruction, but not nearly as much when they were shown fighting again. Would they sill be devastating? Yes. But not like when he slammed into an equal force of his own.
Thor's highest of the high end portrayals would have him at a level where he shouldn't be feeling the shockwave. But that's why all characters get averaged out I suppose.
If he took a rush like the one Hulk delivered against Betty yeah on average. But I find it difficult to believe from just a punch.
Aight. 👆 just lemee know when you've got the time and supplies. We'll give them a show. 😎
Originally posted by Damborgson
It wouldn't be offensive as far as he'd use it to just suspend the Hulk in midair. He'd have to get the Hulk off the ground because just assaulting him with wind would indeed destroy the planet before gaining the desired effect. THAT SAID, the planet would also be destroyed from Hulk's attacks. Meaning that for him to stay on stable ground and avoid a fight against multiple fliers while he is dangling in space, he should avoid dark dimension attacks. It depends what you see as out of character. From the beginning I said that the tools to win are there for Thor, and they are. That's why I haven't mentioned anything that he hasn't done in the comics. To avoid him turning into a fan controlled Thor. It's true that Thor likes melee better than the strategies I've put out there, but he has used the strategies I'm talking about without going into melee before. It isn't anything overly extravagant to be honest.
They are fighting in an enclosed arena the size of NYC though. which means that the level of windforce which Thor would have to use to get the desired effect would likely affect his team mates as well. Even then given Hulks ability to manoever and direct himself even in mid air with pure strength (doesnt make sense but the Hulk never has), i doubt its likely to work. Also even if it did, Hulk floating in the air in this arena wouldnt really do anything but give him the chance to thunderclap till his hearts content.....thereby killing everybody else in the enclosed arena. He wouldnt even need to use that many thunderclaps quite frankly. I agree the tools to win are within Thors powerset but the likelyhood of him using them at all is low. Thor has never seen fit to attempt to use wind to suspend Hulk in such a manner (presuming it would even work) in all their encounters. Nor has he ever thought of this tactic against the numerous other superhigh end bricks he has faced. The one time I do remember him using wind at all was against the destroyer in NYC and their he used it pretty much as a bludgeon (it was ineffective) and not in the strategic manner you are suggesting. Its not extravagant but its not in character either given Thors history against Bricks and this is made even worse when we take into account his self induced increased CIS handicap against the Hulk specifically.
Yes. But that's not what was being discussed. Thor's power would take some pretty high end techs to hurt Hulk (some would kill) but in the scenario I put out, he's just redirecting a 10X magic blast from the energy he absorbed from Hulk. Using enormous energies to his benefit, instead of his own lightning which at its average display of power would not be enough to compete at this point.
Even redirecting a 10x magic blast from the residual Hulk energy he absorbs would not really hurt WBH though...seeing as the residual energy emitted was of little consequence. He would need to bust out his own very most powerful attacks in order to do anything in the way of harming WBH.
To be able to argue against something, I need to be fully educated on it first. So I'm quite aware of the magnitude of the feat, and just ignore H1 because he's H1. I'll harass him every now then and that's about it. I don't doubt the sheer magnitude of the power displayed though.
Ah well then if you acknowledge that, then I cant see how under any circumstances saves Thors very best high end durability feat, how he would surivive a direct hit from WBH which would be exponentially more powerful than the already devastating shockwave. Even provide half the power for that level of shockwave would still put his direct impact force at levels astronomically higher than what was contained within the shockwave itself. We see that the shockwave was able to destroy the totality of the mindless ones when even Umar in her own dimension could not. Due to the zillions of mindless ones, the total force would have to be freaking insane in order for their to still be enough force per unit mass to literally disintegrate them in addition to class 100s like Wendigo and Bi Beast and Armcheddon. Here the force thor feels wouldnt be so diluted by acting on countless numbers of other beings and so suggesting that Thor at anything resmbling typical levels could survive even that shockwave...is being extremely generous. There is not a chance he takes a direct hit which would be loads of orders of magnitutde more effectual.
I can see it as a very real possibility. Unlike this particular Hulk, Thor has 50 years of consistency and inconsistency to call on and be called on. And while the number of hammer smack vastly outnumber the number of draining he's done, the instances are there to be used. And here on the forum where Thor isn't as hampered by plot, the chances of him using it increase. When has Thor ever drained a being that wasn't displaying a radiating energy off his body though? Thor's taken advantage of direct energy blasts, auras, thrown his hammer to intercept and absorb blasts, but never has he tried draining a brick. Because there was nothing to drain. Otherwise you'd be I'd be in a Superman vs Thor thread running my mouth off on how Thor can tear the solar energy from Superman's body without a blast needing to fired or anything. This particular Hulk happens to have this exploitable weakness.Naija...c'mon bro. you and I both know what was up with Red Hulk vs Thor. While something that needs to lived with, was filled with so much PIS that I can't really understand how it's still getting used as evidence.
Thor has 50+ years of continuity in which he has utilized such attacks few and far between. Thats not consistency by any stretch of the imagination. While the likelihood of Thor absorbing the residual energy emitted and firing it back at WBH is higher (which wont do much), he is not likely to attack the internal energy powering up WBH which make him that powerful thereby turning him to banner (what really matters). He has not seen fit to do this against Hulk despite fighting him over a dozen times (with it always being a valid tactic) or attack the internal energy of other superstrong bricks that were like Count Nefaria who was powered by ionic energy) or even Wonderman. The Rulk fight does have a lot of PIS but I used it to illustrate Thors typical mentality in such scenarios which was pretty accurate, despite the other questionable parts of the fight. Then against other superstrong bricks (who might not have absorbable internal energy) thor typically resorts to other attacks after getting physical and usually seems to go back to the physical approach at the end of the day.
Even an average portrayal by Thor is > anyone that died from the shockwave though. And while rightly gets a large amount of the credit for that feat, so does Betty. It took both of them slamming into each other pretty damn fast to do it. There punches were still causing destruction, but not nearly as much when they were shown fighting again. Would they sill be devastating? Yes. But not like when he slammed into an equal force of his own.If he took a rush like the one Hulk delivered against Betty yeah on average. But I find it difficult to believe from just a punch.
Greater than any individual that died? yes. Several orders of magnititude greater however? not even close. And that is what he would have to be in order to legitimately take anything close to the force of that shockwave without the huge force per unit mass dilution of countless mindless ones and all the other characters involved. During the close ups (such as the strange time freeze) Hulk and Bettys punches were still shown to be wrecking the planet and all the characters around them. Then even considering that the Hulk wont create that level of shockwave on his own here, he wouldnt need to in order to incapacitate Thor. The arena is enclosed, the area of outward radiation is much much smaller, and the force is spread over an astronomically lesser number of units of mass, meaning that the force thor would take would take from any kind of WBH shockwave would be actually be far more concentrated. Seeing as thunderclaps from the far far weaker Green Scar Hulk have managed to knock the hell out of a Rulk heavily amped off WWHs energies (who at that level would be more than a pure physical match for anyone on that team), a mean intentioned thunderclap from the obscenely more powerful WBH would be the end of Thor and his team. Taken the aforementioned factors into consideration and given the levels of strength involved here, Thor taking a full fledged punch (except in his highest of the high portrayals) would be totally out of the question. I dont doubt that if Thor was amped to even twenty times his regular strength...he could likely oneshot Hulk at his typical levels. Yet 20x is not even a miniscule fraction of the strength gap involved here. We are talking multiple multiple multiple orders of magnitude here.
Thor has the powerset and capabilities to put up a fight, but his typical in character behaviour in this type of context and against this character specifically, tends against him doing anything but his typical approach which will involve going physical against the Hulk at some point. Further the size of the arena and enclosed space means that he and his teamates are well within range of Hulks attacks regardless of where they are on the battlefield and can be killed without Hulk even touching them. Moreover, Hulk can get off numerous of these devastating attacks very easily and prior to most of the offense that they can generate against him. The hammer brothers are tough and all but this is a massacre as these conditions favor Hulk immensely.
Ill get back to you as too a good time for the Surfer Thor BZ though. 🙂
Originally posted by h1a8
0 as it didn't disintegrate any heralds around. Also we don't know how much damage it did to CK. It could have done basically 0 damage.
There are so many reasons as to why this logic is not only laughable but retarded. I'll only need two examples though:
1 - Chaos King and Hercules were giving it all they've got while operating at High end Abstract level and yet did not do any collateral damage to the beings around them.
2 - World Breaker Hulk and Amped She-Hulk in the following issue were ported back to Earth, amped up many times by Gamma Bombs, got into it with an amped up Fing Fang Foom and didn't incinerate diddly with their wrestling match.
In conclusion, your line of reasoning is incredibly flawed. No entities are going to be incinerating heralds, cities, planets and such while in the Sol System, including World Breaker Hulk 99% of the time.