Originally posted by Dampyre
Well, it happened. I was surprised that Thor didn't show any physical damage after that. It's a higher-end showing for him.
Same. I'd think that such a tactic could very well kill pretty much all Top Tiers. Not even Surfer should attempt such a move.
It was an incredibly dumb move that was out of character and may have very well cost him the fight. If he had used Mjolnir to block it as he did against Hyperion and Gladiator, he'd have fared better.
Originally posted by Dampyre
I didn't say that is wouldn't hurt him. I said that it wouldn't actually damage his silvery shell.
You mean like crack it and shit? I guess. Only time I can recall any Top Tier compromising that is Thor with his head butt. I think Thanos might have as well when he beat him to death.
Originally posted by Dampyre
Have either Gladiator or Hyperion used their vision on the Surfer? The only time I re-call was in the non-continuity marvel Adventures when Gladiator blasted the Surfer in the face with heat vision. It hurt him but he didn't really miss a beat.
I don't think they have, but my point is that even Superman clones have consistently hurt Top Tiers with heat vision, to the point it's almost game changing.
Another example that comes to mind is Gladiator burning a hole through Hulk's chest (IIRC he could have potentially died as it was almost through to his heart) and recently Hyperion rocked the shit out of Hulk with a brief burst of Heat Vision.
I mentioned them only because you seemed to be undermining Superman's heat vision being hotter than the Sun by pointing out that the same was said about Gladiator's which was a bit weird to me.
Originally posted by Dampyre
Can Superman's heat vision take the Surfer out? Yes, but not with any sort of consistency. He's better off trying to make it a brawl.
I think Superman's heat vision would consistently rock and hurt Surfer. But I do agree, it won't take him out of the fight unless he can get Surfer in an unfavorable position or he decides to wade through it.
Originally posted by Dampyre
Not that I'm disagreeing with you but Galactus did say that the Surfer was basically immune to all manner of temperature extremes when he made him.
That's all well and good, but he's not immune. Doubt even Cosmics (Universal and under in scope) are either.
Also, my point pretty much is that Surfer is far more likely to no sell the core of a planet or a Sun than Thor's lightning or Superman's heat vision.
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Same. I'd think that such a tactic could very well kill pretty much all Top Tiers. Not even Surfer should attempt such a move.
Well, we'll have to disagree here. Superman is not killing the Surfer with heat vision, even if he would be stupid enough to try. The Surfer would take that attack a lot better than Thor did.
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
It was an incredibly dumb move that was out of character and may have very well cost him the fight. If he had used Mjolnir to block it as he did against Hyperion and Gladiator, he'd have fared better.
Yes, that was dumb and out of character. I mean, you have a weapon tailor made to block that sort of attack and don't use it?
Originally posted by Rage.Of.OlympusYou mean like crack it and shit? I guess. Only time I can recall any Top Tier compromising that is Thor with his head butt. I think Thanos might have as well when he beat him to death.
The head-butt thing is quite possibly the dumbest thing I have ever seen. Thor is thick-headed but he has no business doing something like that when the Hulk's fist and Mjolnir haven't.
The Thanos incident is a low-showing and that was when Thanos was pretty much written as invincible. The Surfer has taken a lot worse without being killed. Thanos didn't even damage the Surfer's shell.
Originally posted by Rage.Of.OlympusI don't think they have, but my point is that even Superman clones have consistently hurt Top Tiers with heat vision, to the point it's almost game changing.
Again, when has it been used against the Surfer?
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Another example that comes to mind is Gladiator burning a hole through Hulk's chest (IIRC he could have potentially died as it was almost through to his heart) and recently Hyperion rocked the shit out of Hulk with a brief burst of Heat Vision.
That was a Hulk with greatly reduced durability. A lamp post impaled him. The Surfer shell is harder to penetrate than the Hulk's skin anyway.
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
I mentioned them only because you seemed to be undermining Superman's heat vision being hotter than the Sun by pointing out that the same was said about Gladiator's which was a bit weird to me.
Fine, but again, the Hulk isn't the Surfer.
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
I think Superman's heat vision would consistently rock and hurt Surfer. But I do agree, it won't take him out of the fight unless he can get Surfer in an unfavorable position or he decides to wade through it.
The Surfer would never wade through Superman's heat vision. It's also quite possible that the Surfer can absorb Superman's heat vision. He's done similar things enough times.
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
That's all well and good, but he's not immune. Doubt even Cosmics (Universal and under in scope) are either.Also, my point pretty much is that Surfer is far more likely to no sell the core of a planet or a Sun than Thor's lightning or Superman's heat vision.
If you can cite a single instance of a cosmic being being injured by heat I would appreciate it. I can't seem to recall any.
Did I say that the Surfer would no-sell either of those attacks?
Originally posted by Dampyre
Well, we'll have to disagree here. Superman is not killing the Surfer with heat vision, even if he would be stupid enough to try. The Surfer would take that attack a lot better than Thor did.Yes, that was dumb and out of character. I mean, you have a weapon tailor made to block that sort of attack and don't use it?
I don't know if it would kill Surfer but I'd argue most of the time it would put him down. A lot better? Disagreed.
👆
Originally posted by Dampyre
The head-butt thing is quite possibly the dumbest thing I have ever seen. Thor is thick-headed but he has no business doing something like that when the Hulk's fist and Mjolnir haven't.The Thanos incident is a low-showing and that was when Thanos was pretty much written as invincible. The Surfer has taken a lot worse without being killed. Thanos didn't even damage the Surfer's shell.
That's your opinion.
He never cracked Surfer's shell? My mistake, thought there were cracks showing and such.
Yea, it's a lot easier to knock out Surfer than to crack his shell generally from what I've seen.
Originally posted by Dampyre
Again, when has it been used against the Surfer?That was a Hulk with greatly reduced durability. A lamp post impaled him. The Surfer shell is harder to penetrate than the Hulk's skin anyway.
Fine, but again, the Hulk isn't the Surfer.
Hulk's fluctuating durability was acting up at that point? Really? Meh, well whatever.
True, Surfer's more durable but I personally doubt he'd overall fare against an attack noticeably better than the Hulk.
Mostly, my point is that even weaker Superman clones have illustrated enough power with their heat vision to argue that they would hurt Surfer, so they aren't anything to scoff at.
Originally posted by Dampyre
The Surfer would never wade through Superman's heat vision. It's also quite possible that the Surfer can absorb Superman's heat vision. He's done similar things enough times.
That's what I'd have said about Thor. But yea, I seriously doubt that would be a tactic that Norrin would attempt. I guess that's possible. Personally? I think this comes down to punching and energy blasts.
Originally posted by Dampyre
If you can cite a single instance of a cosmic being being injured by heat I would appreciate it. I can't seem to recall any.Did I say that the Surfer would no-sell either of those attacks?
First, what do you define as heat? If you mean generic fires or even exploding Suns, then obviously I don't think they would if I believe Surfer can shrug it off. I'm talking about high end natural/cosmic forces.
I never said that you said he would no sell those attacks. I'm simply pointing it out because the earlier guy seemed to think Surfer being "immune" to heat would apply to heat vision or whatever.
I wouldn't be surprised if Surfer was a little more resistant to HV than most other top tiers. He'd probably be hurt by the concussive force of the HV, but the heat portion he'd probably resist more. He tends to be portrayed to be extremely resistant to heat. His most recent mini had him sitting in the heart of a star, and he commented on not even feeling a "tingle."
Originally posted by golem370
Because Silver Surfer is an energy absorber plus Superman heat vision is powered by sun so how can it be hotter then the source of the powers.
it's only powered by the sun like the rest of him is. it isn't "sun vision" or anything like that.
besides, superman's body isn't just a battery, it's a converter. he takes the solar energy in to his body and refines it, creating a more substantial form of energy, a more potent one.
Originally posted by Dampyre
There's no precedent for anything like that. It's just wishful thinking. You are entitled to your opinion though.
I don't agree. Energy has hurt Surfer before.
Originally posted by Dampyre
If you can cite a single instance of a cosmic being being injured by heat I would appreciate it. I can't seem to recall any.Did I say that the Surfer would no-sell either of those attacks?
It's not just heat, though.
His heat vision hurt The Weird in his intangible state, because of specific properties you don't get from normal heat....
Originally posted by vince_slice
I wouldn't be surprised if Surfer was a little more resistant to HV than most other top tiers. He'd probably be hurt by the concussive force of the HV, but the heat portion he'd probably resist more. He tends to be portrayed to be extremely resistant to heat. His most recent mini had him sitting in the heart of a star, and he commented on not even feeling a "tingle."
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v155/thorion/panther/galactus4.jpg
Originally posted by abhilegend
The same series had him saying he had to "fight" through solar plasma.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v155/thorion/panther/galactus4.jpg
Originally posted by abhilegend
The same series had him saying he had to "fight" through solar plasma.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v155/thorion/panther/galactus4.jpg
Originally posted by Newjak
At no point in that scan does anything say the heat would have hurt him or that it would have been a task for him to fight through it. The only thing that scan says is that if Surfer had wanted to he could have gone through it but decided not to.
Lol.
Originally posted by Newjak
At no point in that scan does anything say the heat would have hurt him or that it would have been a task for him to fight through it. The only thing that scan says is that if Surfer had wanted to he could have gone through it but decided not to.
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Lol.
Originally posted by abhilegend
I never said it hurt him. Having to fight through solar plasma by his own admission is already bad enough. Rookie lanterns fly through that like bathroom shower by their own admission.
Originally posted by NewjakI quote my post again to give you one last chance to really look at it and look at the scan again.
At no point in that scan does anything say the heat would have hurt him or that it would have been a task for him to fight through it. The only thing that scan says is that if Surfer had wanted to he could have gone through it but decided not to.
After doing that instead of trying to play the political comic book heroes game actually take a second to figure out at no point does Surfer say anything about fighting through the solar plasma being a challenge for him, it only says and I repeat.
If the Surfer had wanted to he could have gone through it but decided not to.
That's all your scan really says.
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
1. Strength - Superman.
2. Speed - Superman in combat speed, split or edge to Surfer in straight line speed.
3. Intelligence - Superman.
4. Durability - Split or edge to Surfer I guess.
5. Stamina - Not sure, gut says Superman.
6. Reflexes - Superman.
7. Agility - Superman.
8. Energy Blasts - Split or edge to Surfer.
9. Versatility - Surfer.
This pretty much though I'd say Surfer has better hard durability while Superman has much better blunt force durability.
And I'd give energy blasts to Surfer.
