Originally posted by Golgo13Scans of the last two.
He also fought Spectre on a few occasions, had universal reality warping spells, fought a being that was ripping through multiple dimensions/universes, stole power from various gods/LOO and Chaos, etc...
Although I don't get why you're going on about PC when this is Kent V Nelson from the Countdown to Mystery mini and onwards.
Originally posted by Branlor Swift
Scans of the last two.Although I don't get why you're going on about PC when this is Kent V Nelson from the Countdown to Mystery mini and onwards.
Oh, I forgot about that one, but here are some of his battles against various mystic beings.
http://thecomicsledger.*********.com/index.cgi?board=respect&action=display&thread=3043
And some other scans.
http://www.comicvine.com/forums/doctor-fate/631/revamped-doctor-fate-respect-thread/627345/
Originally posted by DarkSaint85Reread your own scans.
At the end, however, Z wasn't using him - Zor had broken him, and by Z's own statement, she was the only one around to save the day.If its to say that she's never done it since, again, Flash has hardly busted the IMPs out in his comic, yet in a Flash forum fight, if I used that tactic, no one here would bat an eyelid.
Originally posted by DarkSaint85First of all, when Zor "broke" Gwydion, Gwydion was still fighting. Second, Zor "broke" Gwydion and what happened at that instant? The backlash threw Zatanna through the space of the comic. It was from there floating in-between and among the panels that she pulled the "curtain" on Zor, so to speak. When the scene shoots back to the physical world (as the battle was both metaphysical and physical), it's just Zatanna choking Zor in the swamp, until Zor turns it all upside down again causing Zatanna to fall again:
http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/9/96174/2051115-sevensoldiers4.jpghttp://media.comicvine.com/uploads/9/96174/2051116-sevensoldiers5.jpg
Zor broke Gwydion. Broke Merlin. Z was on her own, and she saved the day.
Zatanna isn't using her own power to travel through the panels of the page. At best, it was a Zatanna merged w/ Gwydion's power being BFRed through the pages of the comic by Zor's assault that put her in that position almost by accident. A typical Morrison trope, ESPECIALLY in Seven Soldiers (like Sheeda being thrown down and hit by Bulleteer's car accidentally).
As disjointed as Morrison's fight scenes can be, the most glaring inarguable fact here is that when she "pulls the curtain," Zatanna hasn't even used her backwards magic and cast a spell like, "Tup em daeha fo roZ dna raet nwod eht esrevinu."
So, no. Let's review what you've said: #1 Gwydion wasn't a spell of Zatanna's. #2 Gwydion isn't a power that she normally has access to. #3 When Gwydion was "broken," he wasn't out of the game and was still struggling with Zor. #4 That wasn't even Zatanna's power being used there; in fact, you just completely misread the action.
#4 isn't really your fault if that's what happened. Morrison was using his patented disjointed-for-the-sake-of-disjointed storytelling there. #1-3 however are plain falsities or perversions of the KMC vs. rules. Zatanna w/ Gwydion's power is not analogous to Flash's IMP at all and Gwydion isn't in this thread.
How is Z tearing pages even considered "breaking the 4th" wall? When did she "interact" with the reader or even acknowledge the existence of the universe outside the 4th wall or affect it in any way?
It just looks like a unique way of representing a high level reality manipulation "feat" IMO.
Just my opinion.
