Originally posted by Zampanó
At what point does this turn into a private army?
When all the dicks touching starts.
Seriously, there is nothing wrong with a private army, legally. In fact, that is how the system was setup: private army organization. That is how they intended to defend the nation: private armies assembling for war. They called them militias.
Originally posted by ZampanóYouTube video
I'm Commander Shepard and this is my favorite shop on the citadel
Originally posted by focus4chumps
paranoid redneck commune?
These won't be rednecks...if it succeeds. These will be more like the "Idaho Citizens Constitutional Militia" who are generally not rednecks. They will have too much money to be considered rednecks. I have a sneaking suspicion that they will be...partly comprised of "Aryan Brotherhood" types.
Originally posted by dadudemon
When all the dicks touching starts.Seriously, there is nothing wrong with a private army, legally. In fact, that is how the system was setup: private army organization. That is how they intended to defend the nation: private armies assembling for war. They called them militias.
Slow to organize, often brought together only by incentive of free alcohol, and poorly disciplined, militias were replaced by National Guard units because people finally realized that militaries are better professional than cheap.
(Sidenote, I can't believe that KMC spellcheck doesn't recognize "militaries"😉
Originally posted by Omega Vision
And if you look at the country's military history, militias were a failure.
Well, except for when they helped win the War of Independence, and helped in the French and Indian War campaigns. .
But those activities were rife with various problems having to do with militias, of course.
Originally posted by Omega Vision
Slow to organize, often brought together only by incentive of free alcohol, and poorly disciplined, militias were replaced by National Guard units because people finally realized that militaries are better professional than cheap.(Sidenote, I can't believe that KMC spellcheck doesn't recognize "militaries"😉
Well, as it stands, militias are still legal but there are holes they have to jump through, iirc. If Militias were allowed to obtain and use any weapons short of WMD's, they could be quite effective. Some private military forces are used by the government, still. Though....they have seen some naughty actions.
I need to learn more about that stuff. How do they obtain weapons for their middle east campaigns? Surely they have tons and tons of weapons that are illegal for regular joes? Machine Gun Turrets, Tanks, APCs, etc. I would say, short of swearing, that I've seem some of those contractors armed to the teeth. Maybe I'm wrong and that is stuff supplied by the government.
Originally posted by dadudemon
[B]Well, except for when they helped win the War of Independence, and helped in the French and Indian War campaigns. .But those activities were rife with various problems having to do with militias, of course.
Well, as it stands, militias are still legal but there are holes they have to jump through, iirc. If Militias were allowed to obtain and use any weapons short of WMD's, they could be quite effective. Some private military forces are used by the government, still. Though....they have seen some naughty actions.
I need to learn more about that stuff. How do they obtain weapons for their middle east campaigns? Surely they have tons and tons of weapons that are illegal for regular joes? Machine Gun Turrets, Tanks, APCs, etc. I would say, short of swearing, that I've seem some of those contractors armed to the teeth. Maybe I'm wrong and that is stuff supplied by the government.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M113_armored_personnel_carrier
^80,000 of those have been produced, and at the moment only several thousand are in use by the US Army, while thousands more are fielded by third world countries who fought proxy wars during the Cold War. My guess is that companies like Blackwater buy them second hand from poor militaries then refurbish and upgrade them.
As for their machine guns, it wouldn't surprise me if PMCs buy them from governments and criminal arms dealers alike. Actually, it wouldn't surprise me if most PMCs were arms dealers.
Re: The Citadel: America's Freedom City of Tomorrow
In the case of a WWIII final holy war post-nuclear apacolypse in 100 years or so, when I become a superhuman Cyborg, I'm going to storm the Citadel and solo everyone inside. My body will be made of self-replicating nanobots instead of cells.
Note: skin cells, as with muscle cells for thousands of times normal myofibril strength and neuro stimuli reaction, will be nanobots composed of a carbon nanotube structure from the molecular level. So the exploding shells and sustained high caliber bullet-spray from jets and tanks' turrents and bunker busters would be the only thing that could pierce my hyde, and even then the nanobots will replicate and repair in a timeframe ranging from 1 to 10 second[s].
My home will be the home of AI, possibly Venus if it survives the nuclear onslaught, which it is far more capable of surviving than the Citadel.
Originally posted by Omega Vision
The performance of the militias in the War of Independence (btw, I'm happy to see a Conservative/Libertarian using the name "War of Independence" rather than the oh-so-arrogant and semantically incorrect "Revolutionary War"😉 is pretty controversial. They did have a few good showings, but most of the time it was the Continental Army, with support from mountain-men guerrila types that won battles against the British.
1. I'm a social liberal. I'm a fiscal conservative. I am best described as a "US Moderate" which makes me a conservative to the rest of the modern world, according to Oliver North (inimalist).
2. Militias sucked, for the most part, in US History. I am pretty much agreeing with you. 😄
3. I had no idea that that was a point of contention (the name of the war). Honestly, my "Early American History" professor always called it both in class. Just was on a whim what I called it.
Originally posted by Omega Vision
Yes, I was going to bring up Blackwater. The main problem with private militias would be the diminished accountability versus an army with a large, well-established chain of command and relatively transparent structure.
Hmmm. It is hard for me to say anything is justified. I can argue, with myself, all sides of this topic and still not feel comfortable either way. That sounds crazy but people generally consider multiple perspectives before making an argument...some do, at least. I try to argue a topic from different sides to see what it is like. Basically, I can see that, in the case of the US, too much military is bad. I can argue in the case of Japan that too little military is also bad.
But no military should be required. I wish humans would stop being buttholes and got along. 🙁 Think of the trillions of dollars we could be spending on medical science?
Originally posted by Omega Vision
I'm not sure if any PMCs have ever been armed with Main Battle Tanks or fighter jets, but it isn't too hard to equip yourself with an APC if you have the money.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M113_armored_personnel_carrier
^80,000 of those have been produced, and at the moment only several thousand are in use by the US Army, while thousands more are fielded by third world countries who fought proxy wars during the Cold War. My guess is that companies like Blackwater buy them second hand from poor militaries then refurbish and upgrade them.
As for their machine guns, it wouldn't surprise me if PMCs buy them from governments and criminal arms dealers alike. Actually, it wouldn't surprise me if most PMCs were arms dealers.
You definitely know more about this topic than I. How do they arm themselves, legally, to land contracts for jobs? If they didn't have the equipment, they couldn't really make a legit bid on contracts.
If I cannot have a .50 cal machine gun turret mounted in my APC, then how do they get away with it? I don't think they have fighter jets, for sure. Just heavy arms, RPGs, and the like. But there are rumors of UAVs being in the hands of private citizens and militia groups (and professional contractors). UAVs are pretty much game changers. All the offensive capability of a fighter or bomber and none of the risk of dying or killing of very skilled pilots.
IMO, UAVs pretty much nulled the entire point of the second amendment arming provisions. But if it is going into private hands, then maybe the second amendment still holds water. I think it would be difficult for the US Government to wage war against 12-20 private militias that were just decently armed.
Originally posted by dadudemon
1. I'm a social liberal. I'm a fiscal conservative. I am best described as a "US Moderate" which makes me a conservative to the rest of the modern world, according to Oliver North (inimalist).
2. Militias sucked, for the most part, in US History. I am pretty much agreeing with you. 😄
3. I had no idea that that was a point of contention (the name of the war). Honestly, my "Early American History" professor always called it both in class. Just was on a whim what I called it.
Hmmm. It is hard for me to say anything is justified. I can argue, with myself, all sides of this topic and still not feel comfortable either way. That sounds crazy but people generally consider multiple perspectives before making an argument...some do, at least. I try to argue a topic from different sides to see what it is like. Basically, I can see that, in the case of the US, too much military is bad. I can argue in the case of Japan that too little military is also bad.But no military should be required. I wish humans would stop being buttholes and got along. 🙁 Think of the trillions of dollars we could be spending on medical science?
You definitely know more about this topic than I. How do they arm themselves, legally, to land contracts for jobs? If they didn't have the equipment, they couldn't really make a legit bid on contracts.
If I cannot have a .50 cal machine gun turret mounted in my APC, then how do they get away with it? I don't think they have fighter jets, for sure. Just heavy arms, RPGs, and the like. But there are rumors of UAVs being in the hands of private citizens and militia groups (and professional contractors). UAVs are pretty much game changers. All the offensive capability of a fighter or bomber and none of the risk of dying or killing of very skilled pilots.
IMO, UAVs pretty much nulled the entire point of the second amendment arming provisions. But if it is going into private hands, then maybe the second amendment still holds water. I think it would be difficult for the US Government to wage war against 12-20 private militias that were just decently armed.
That said, I imagine if you look closely at American PMCs you'd find that they're chartered outside of the country and don't strictly speaking follow American law. As to contracts, Blackwater's Erik Prince was a former Navy SEAL, he had friends in the government and military for sure. I imagine that's the case with all successful PMCs--someone in their upper echelons knows someone powerful.
Edit: Lol, this article is somewhat pertinent:
http://www.automobilemag.com/features/0804_how_to_buy_a_tank/viewall.html
Originally posted by Omega Vision
Well, it's not that it's a major point of contention in either popular or academic circles in America (so far as I know), but the British are understandably vexed if you tell them there was a successful revolution waged against the British Empire in the 1770s considering the Queen is still on the throne and Parliament is still holding sessions. It's just incorrect to call it a Revolution when government wasn't overthrown, just forced to accept that a segment of the population was no longer under its control. The War of Independence has more in common with a Civil War than a Revolution.I probably don't know much more than you about this. All I've said regarding Blackwater and the like has been mostly conjecture.
That said, I imagine if you look closely at American PMCs you'd find that they're chartered outside of the country and don't strictly speaking follow American law. As to contracts, Blackwater's Erik Prince was a former Navy SEAL, he had friends in the government and military for sure. I imagine that's the case with all successful PMCs--someone in their upper echelons knows someone powerful.
Edit: Lol, this article is somewhat pertinent:
http://www.automobilemag.com/features/0804_how_to_buy_a_tank/viewall.html
I don't think a domestic contractor could get a full operational tank...that's what that article made it seem like.
However, one could build it from the ground up with lots of money and lots of building experience.
Originally posted by dadudemon
I don't think a domestic contractor could get a full operational tank...that's what that article made it seem like.However, one could build it from the ground up with lots of money and lots of building experience.
In the end that would be prohibitively expensive, time consuming, and complicated, and probably wouldn't do you much good, but it's possible.
Originally posted by Omega Vision
Assuming you were clever and sneaky enough, you could order all the tank parts from overseas piecemeal, then reassemble the tank on American soil.
That's Irish Mafia level shit, yo.
Originally posted by Omega Vision
In the end that would be prohibitively expensive, time consuming, and complicated, and probably wouldn't do you much good, but it's possible.
I don't think it would send up red flags if you ordered the materials for a tank. You'd have to have some massive equipment to make your molds...and cranes...n'stuff. It would set off red flags unless you lived in the middle of nowhere. Ordering the industrial equipment would not set off those flags. As long as you made the molds, ammo, and propellant you'd be okay.