Viktor (Underworld) vs. Palpatine

Originally posted by Mindset
They didn't want Michael in UW4, they didn't care what happened to his character.

Hence why I said he didn't live up to his hype.^

Originally posted by Mindset
Lucian was born a Lycan, he was the first of his kind, we don't know how powerful that made him.

He was pretty much the Underworld version of Blade. All the powers of a Lycan and none of the weaknesses. Yet all of his children were still werewolves yet didn't have the insatiable hunger and thirst of the original, and could change at will. Turning the tide of the battle.

To gauge Lucian's powerset is only in the films. But he certainly was a mutant and perceived his children as brutes.

Originally posted by the ninjak
Hence why I said he didn't live up to his hype.^

He was pretty much the Underworld version of Blade. All the powers of a Lycan and none of the weaknesses. Yet all of his children were still werewolves yet didn't have the insatiable hunger and thirst of the original, and could change at will. Turning the tide of the battle.

To gauge Lucian's powerset is only in the films. But he certainly was a mutant and perceived his children as brutes.

Yes, I'm aware of Lucian and his offspring. I'm saying he could have the strength of an older vamp because he was born a werewolf and not turned.

Originally posted by Mindset
But he did live up to the hype, as shown in every movie they wanted him in. They just used PIS for him to not be in UW4. That has no bearing on his power.

Yes, I'm aware of Lucian and his offspring. I'm saying he could have the strength of an older vamp because he was born a werewolf and not turned.

-Viktor would've destroyed him if not for Selene's interference.

-I'm unsure of your point in regards to Lucien. He had many years to achieve the power you mentioned yet got put down in the end.
It seems his only goal was Michael obtaining his wished legacy. Which I guess was Michael himself and that clone child. And the death of the vampires.
He succeeded.

Originally posted by the ninjak
-Viktor would've destroyed him if not for Selene's interference.

-I'm unsure of your point in regards to Lucien. He had many years to achieve the power you mentioned yet got put down in the end.
It seems his only goal was Michael obtaining his wished legacy. Which I guess was Michael himself and that clone child. And the death of the vampires.
He succeeded.

I don't even know what you're talking about here. I was talking about Lucian's fight with Viktor in the 3rd movie.

Originally posted by juggerman
-Yes him killing Raze so effortlessly was extremely impressive.
-I gotta give him the Michael feat with a grain of salt tho. He was getting beat up early on by a guy that barely knew how to use his power while Viktor has had centuries to adapt.
-Survivng was easy enough since they all have healing factors. Losing is what kills me tho.

Very true. Also i'd like to point out how it's stated that "only the oldest and most powerful lycans" can transform at will yet Raze and the other "new borns" did so like a day after being turned. The whole thing is inconsistant as f*ck.

But based solely on movie protrayals i think Viktor should win

Originally posted by the ninjak
Quan, you need to supply a locale for fights like this.

As I stated above. Palpatine can jump high into the sky and use his environment against his opponent. But if the fight takes place in a tight location Viktor can pound in. The fight is static.

Originally posted by juggerman
Yeah his capture was ass. One of the many problems i had with the movie. But the fact that Michael was even remotely a challenge for Viktor seconds after being "born" shows his amazing ability. And he fought pretty evenly against William who was much more powerful than Viktor.

And Viktor lost pretty embarrassingly to his daughter. And then later to Lucian. Both things i loathed about "Rise" btw. Neither one of them should have been even a minimal threat to him

EDIT: And iirc Lucian was holding his own against Viktor before sunlight was involved. Been awhile since i've seen it tho so i could be wrong. The whole "the older you the stronger you get" idea takes a dump in that series too many times for my liking.

Lucian used the sun to his advantage and fought while holding those chains. It was a weird fight but in Underworld One no one including him thought they could beat Viktor. Viktor was too strong in a fair fight for anyone at that time.

Viktor win not by speed but by inhuman quickness.

Originally posted by theTANTALIZER
Viktor win not by speed but by inhuman quickness.

Originally posted by quanchi112
With regards to his daughter and Viktor to me it's obvious he's holding back. It's his daughter and despite his actions he still loved her. Only when she told him about the child he knew he had to kill her. I think most would agree that in a fight to the death without holding back that Viktor would slaughter her.

Lucian used the sun to his advantage and fought while holding those chains. It was a weird fight but in Underworld One no one including him thought they could beat Viktor. Viktor was too strong in a fair fight for anyone at that time.

I know but him being so far above her level how come he just couldn't disarm her without hurting her? It was just some stupid "let's have the good guy win" crap.

And Lucian was holding his own before he used light. And to make it even worse he was beaten badly, chained for about 24 hours with no food or water(it's shown they do need to eat/drink), and then he was shot with several arrows and looked to be near death moments before his fight with Viktor. It was just complete trash. Viktor should have wiped his ass with Lucian well before sunlight was even a factor. Hell iirc Viktor ran from Lucian at first. They really tried to make him look bad.

Viktor wasn't that much older than Lucian.

And like Marcus and William, Lucian was the first of his kind.

Originally posted by Mindset
Viktor wasn't that much older than Lucian.

And like Marcus and William, Lucian was the first of his kind.

What's "that much older"? It could have taken them very long to hunt down William. Even longer to establish the "two elders asleep with one awake" rule. And they would have to be pretty damn old to be considered "elders" among their dudes in the first place imo. Plus who knows how long it took the wolves they had captive for some reason to give birth to a weird humanish child.

Yeah none of that is actual proof but damn he shouldn't have looked so horrible. And if Lucian was given some amazing "first of his kind power" it should have been said somewhere. Right now it just looks like major PIS that he could beat Viktor like that.

Originally posted by juggerman
What's "that much older"? It could have taken them very long to hunt down William. Even longer to establish the "two elders asleep with one awake" rule. And they would have to be pretty damn old to be considered "elders" among their dudes in the first place imo. Plus who knows how long it took the wolves they had captive for some reason to give birth to a weird humanish child.

Yeah none of that is actual proof but damn he shouldn't have looked so horrible. And if Lucian was given some amazing "first of his kind power" it should have been said somewhere. Right now it just looks like major PIS that he could beat Viktor like that.

They showed he had some amazing "first of his kind power" when he dominated the wild werewolves. And when he was badass as a kid.

Lucian's victory over Viktor was absolute bullshit that contradicted the first movie, which hinged completely on Lucian's admitted need to become a hybrid:

Kraven: How do you expect me to assume control now that Viktor's awake? There's no defeating him. He grows stronger as we speak.

Lucian: And that is precisely why I need Michael.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
Lucian's victory over Viktor was absolute bullshit that contradicted the first movie, which hinged completely on Lucian's admitted need to become a hybrid:

Kraven: How do you expect me to assume control now that Viktor's awake? There's no defeating him. He grows stronger as we speak.

Lucian: And that is precisely why I need Michael.

Viktor was the first vampire Marcus turned, and Amelia was shortly after, but Viktor was the 2nd most powerful Vampire following the original Elder.

And that was in the 5th Century, not the 12th. Lucian wasn't born until the 13th Century.

So Viktor has several hundred years on Lucian, and Lucian being the "Elder" of the Lycans had more power than his progeny's, including the ability to control the werewolves, who before were only feral unless William was around, and even then they just attacked what he attacked.

Also, Amelia was killed because she was overwhelmed by sheer numbers. Remember how easily Viktor snapped Raze's neck, and he was the second most powerful Lycan around, only a few years younger than Lucian. But neither of them had even reached 800 years old by the time they died, and the vampires were over 1,500.

Yes, I know. Yes, I know.

Where are you getting he was turned in the 5th century and Lucian the 13th?

In any case, Amelia was taken out and she was about the same age as Viktor. Yes, but that means they don't need Michael to beat Viktor, they needed Michael to beat Viktor/Marcus and his army of death dealers.

Originally posted by Mindset
They already killed one Vampire elder on the train, she was as old as Viktor iirc. If anything, he needed a hybrid for Marcus, who was stronger than Viktor.

Don't take it up with me, take it up with Lucian. We don't know the circumstances of Amelia's death anyway. It might have required a dozen Lycans.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
Don't take it up with me, take it up with Lucian. We don't know the circumstances of Amelia's death anyway. It might have required a dozen Lycans.

From Tanis. The Vampire historian who said so. Viktor was a Hungarian Warlord who was on death's doorstep when Marcus offered him immortality in exchange for his army to fight William's werewolves.

You're thinking he was born in the 12th century because they finally found William in 1202, but he was a vampire long before then.

Marcus and William were born in the 5th Century, and got infected in the 5th Century. It was still the 5th Century when William went on his rampage and Marcus found Viktor.