Voldemort vs. Ganondorf (Twilight Princess)

Started by quanchi11294 pages

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
Strawman.

Same strawman. Ganondorf got sucked through an open door that didn't interact at all with the ToP. The Master Sword overpowered the ToP. Completely separate things.

I don't cry, but the masturbation gets old, that's for sure. You could put a little effort into your posts, man.

No, it isn't. You said for magic to work it needs to overpower it so either they both did or one dispelled while the other bfr'd.

Wrong. The top resides in him and the mirror and the master sword both performed their functions on him regardless.

Dispel doesn't mean overpower. Dispel is in HH not overpower.
😂

You don't even grasp Zelda verse.

The mirror never interacted with the ToP.

The Master sword does interact with the ToP, and overpowers it.

Hard to dispel something more powerful than yourself.

I lol'd.

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
The mirror never interacted with the ToP.

The Master sword does interact with the ToP, and overpowers it.

Hard to dispel something more powerful than yourself.

I lol'd.

Hit Dorf just like master sword did.

No, it dispels it. Mirror bfrs top user.

World of balance. K-nite dispels Supermans powers. Called a reaction.

You should be ashamed.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Hit Dorf just like master sword did.

No, it dispels it. Mirror bfrs top user.

World of balance. K-nite dispels Supermans powers. Called a reaction.

You should be ashamed.


Dorf was sucked in.

Direct interaction. Everything about the mirror was indirect and irrelevant to your point.

Kryptonite works because Superman has a weakness, the triforce doesn't. You can't twist Zelda's words to pretend it does.

No u.

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
Dorf was sucked in.

Direct interaction. Everything about the mirror was indirect and irrelevant to your point.

Kryptonite works because Superman has a weakness, the triforce doesn't. You can't twist Zelda's words to pretend it does.

No u.

The magic of the mirror according to your logic overpowered his top when it hit him because you clearly define magic as only working when it overpowers.

The mirror directly just made Dorf and Dorf only come through it. Your logic says it overpowered the top. It actually hurts your case even more.

K-nite has that reaction it wasn't created specifically for that. The master sword was created specifically to combat evil so its even a better example than k-nite is.

You are twisting and ignoring canon words. You are seriously one of the most hypocritical debaters I have ever met. You dont even understand basic logic either.

Don't try to use 'my logic' if you can't understand my logic. That's indirect, it doesn't interact with the ToP.

See above

Kryptonite is irrelevant.

Actually, seriously no u this time. You're trying to ignore things outright stated in HH and twist others to mean things they do not. GG.

Originally posted by quanchi112
1. Wrong. Hyrule is a land of balance. Our world is one of balance... Just as there is light to drive away darkness,
so, too, is there benevolence to banish evil. Only a specific attack in Hyrule. That's all it has ever been.
Dorf was able to possess her because she was unconscious.
2. There is no real pain or threat to the body its magic simulating unbelievable agony. Dorf and Link feel pain and have no resistance to the attack. Simple.
They can't resist it hurts. Someone might not give up info but they still feel a constant agony. Dorf would react in the same manner. Everyone who,feels it as at the mercy of the wizard. If you feel someone can not be at the wizards mercy prove it with an example.
Don't tell me how to feel.
3. We don't know where either were when the castle fell. People survive buildings falling and we don't say human >>building. Same cannot be said here. Coulda been right place right time.
We see the master sword parried in the game easily. It's a counter to evil and dispels magic. That's it. It doesn't rip through other blades. Dorf can survive more damage yes but a sword cuts into his skin just like a persons. That's my point.
While the hole remained. If he can't heal the holes then logically enough hole means he dies. If specific magic can dispel his magic specific magic logically can also kill him. He can survive normal blade damage if enough of his body remains intact; within reason.

1. You're talking about Twilight, yet not about the Triforce allowing them to resist its effects. The only thing that lets the three survive Twilight is this power.
Didn't answer the Light Spirits point either. These spirits push back a land full of Twilight, and the mere presence of one was able to throw Midna into critical state. A single on has strong anti-evil/dark/nasty holy light powers, all four combined empowered the Light Arrows that temporarily stun Ganondorf.

..from expelling the ToW from her body.

2. Simulating pain by triggering stimuli? Doesn't have to be real damage, just the feeling they alert.

Yet they were able to take it for hours without buckling from will alone. Why are we to assume that it will inflict more pain on Ganondorf than whats been described?

Aw 🙁 Question: After the pain curse, what then? A Wizard has to be using the spell, and when they stop doing to the spell stops. We know characters like the Tonk's were only a little shook up from being tortured for hours, so assuming Dorf does in fact feel pain, given how fast he comes back after pain the only thing leftover would be a twitch and pissed off Dorf and a Tom thats been using magic for hours.

3. Humans can survive in the sense that if a wall, ceiling or a certain amount of weight lands on them they will live, but be injured or put into critical condition. Differences from this? First if that Dorf was not put into any condition. Second is that it wasn't falling walls of brick.. it was an explosive event that make a stone castle with thick rock walls erupt while being at the centre of it.

The only instance where a sword has parried the MS is from Ganondorf, a character with (in that very scene) strength in Link's class, and with a weapon forged by magical sages. Remember when its used to slice through thick armour? See, now you're going against canon. The Goddess Sword is stronger than a normal sword. The first Sacred Flame only makes the Sword physically stronger. The Sword only gets anti-evil powers after the third Sacred Flame, which also increases its physical damage. You can deny its stronger than a sword all you like but its canon.
Even surviving slashes before the anti-evil magic is impressive and above human levels. Surviving it from this sword with the holy enhancements boosts the difference from what a human can take. Nothing to compare.

The hole remains cause it was formed before the ToP, which means nothing as he still survived a fatal, killing strike. The ToP allowed him to survive an attack that killed him. And note this line; "If specific magic can dispel his magic specific magic logically can also kill him" Whats the key word there? "Specific magic". That specific magic is that of the Master Sword's anti-evil powers. The specific magic here is the Sacred Light from the Sacred Flames meshed with the holy blessing from Goddess Hylia to resist evil.
-The MS's specific magic is anti-evil, twice blessed from powerful beings, full of holy properties.
-The AK's specific magic is causing death. Something the ToP has already allowed him to overcome.
It took a specific, and powerful magic to do this to Ganondorf. And the AK does not have this specific power.

Originally posted by quanchi112
4. Voldemort can easily break strong with a force blast. He does so to Dumbledore's tomb.
It was damaged and we clearly see a different effect take place when Voldemort blasts the shield showing an immediate impact. They aren't humans they are wizards either.
5. Power level is immaterial since the attacks don't effect the durability. It's like saying Professor Xavier can't mind wreck someone power of a power level. Everything of your board is strength/power means king. Silly.
Your logic only has to do with physical durability based attacks. Nonsense. It also ignores the it only killed humans which is your logic in a nutshell. They were wizards too not muggles.
They aren't comparable to humans since they are wizards. Magic is what makes them unique and not human aka muggle.
This has nothing to do with durability based attacks. Master sword dispels tops magic showing specific magic works against its wielder.

4. Doesn't matter if they're humans or wizards when the point is about the weight thrown around.
Yeah, he broke a shield that was already breaking apart. Its power is clearly above the singles, but the feat is coming from what it did. And on that, using magic with that power breaks the EW and causes him to ricochet and stop. IIRC the second time he used a powerful spell (more intense than usual) with it it finally snapped. Two or more chances to use magic at this strength wouldn't be so bad if the consequence wasn't being reduced to his non-EW magic.

5. Yeah I didn't quite get an answer; Planetary sized creature and a guy that tanks Universe busting attacks, will the AK kill them for their low-level killing capabilities, yay or nay? Basically what I'm still waiting for is for you to give me the limits of AK's power.

Pointless then. Its killing capabilities is to end human life. If being a wizard means anything, as you seem to always be inferring, then we can look at the magical level of wizards and Dorf. Or we can compare the fact that unlike these wizards, Dorf has a perma-resistance offered by the Triforce, a type of magic that allowed him to survive being killed.

And speaking of magical resistance, love has been stated to be a magic that can defend from and even deflect AK. This proves that powerful protective magic can resist AK. And thats exactly what the Triforce offers.

To speak nothing about the vast difference physically and magically between them, both Harry and Ganondorf have really powerful magical protections. Love and the Triforce which have both proven to be very powerful, both proven to protect the two and both have been proven so save them from death situations.

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
Don't try to use 'my logic' if you can't understand my logic. That's indirect, it doesn't interact with the ToP.

See above

Kryptonite is irrelevant.

Actually, seriously no u this time. You're trying to ignore things outright stated in HH and twist others to mean things they do not. GG.

Both work on Dorf the wielder of the top. 😂

No, it's perfectly relevant.

What have I ignored ?

Originally posted by BloodRain
1. You're talking about Twilight, yet not about the Triforce allowing them to resist its effects. The only thing that lets the three survive Twilight is this power.
Didn't answer the Light Spirits point either. These spirits push back a land full of Twilight, and the mere presence of one was able to throw Midna into critical state. A single on has strong anti-evil/dark/nasty holy light powers, all four combined empowered the Light Arrows that temporarily stun Ganondorf.

..from expelling the ToW from her body.

2. Simulating pain by triggering stimuli? Doesn't have to be real damage, just the feeling they alert.

Yet they were able to take it for hours without buckling from will alone. Why are we to assume that it will inflict more pain on Ganondorf than whats been described?

Aw 🙁 Question: After the pain curse, what then? A Wizard has to be using the spell, and when they stop doing to the spell stops. We know characters like the Tonk's were only a little shook up from being tortured for hours, so assuming Dorf does in fact feel pain, given how fast he comes back after pain the only thing leftover would be a twitch and pissed off Dorf and a Tom thats been using magic for hours.

3. Humans can survive in the sense that if a wall, ceiling or a certain amount of weight lands on them they will live, but be injured or put into critical condition. Differences from this? First if that Dorf was not put into any condition. Second is that it wasn't falling walls of brick.. it was an explosive event that make a stone castle with thick rock walls erupt while being at the centre of it.

The only instance where a sword has parried the MS is from Ganondorf, a character with (in that very scene) strength in Link's class, and with a weapon forged by magical sages. Remember when its used to slice through thick armour? See, now you're going against canon. The Goddess Sword is stronger than a normal sword. The first Sacred Flame only makes the Sword physically stronger. The Sword only gets anti-evil powers after the third Sacred Flame, which also increases its physical damage. You can deny its stronger than a sword all you like but its canon.
Even surviving slashes before the anti-evil magic is impressive and above human levels. Surviving it from this sword with the holy enhancements boosts the difference from what a human can take. Nothing to compare.

The hole remains cause it was formed before the ToP, which means nothing as he still survived a fatal, killing strike. The ToP allowed him to survive an attack that killed him. And note this line; "If specific magic can dispel his magic specific magic logically can also kill him" Whats the key word there? "Specific magic". That specific magic is that of the Master Sword's anti-evil powers. The specific magic here is the Sacred Light from the Sacred Flames meshed with the holy blessing from Goddess Hylia to resist evil.
-The MS's specific magic is anti-evil, twice blessed from powerful beings, full of holy properties.
-The AK's specific magic is causing death. Something the ToP has already allowed him to overcome.
It took a specific, and powerful magic to do this to Ganondorf. And the AK does not have this specific power.

4. Doesn't matter if they're humans or wizards when the point is about the weight thrown around.
Yeah, he broke a shield that was already breaking apart. Its power is clearly above the singles, but the feat is coming from what it did. And on that, using magic with that power breaks the EW and causes him to ricochet and stop. IIRC the second time he used a powerful spell (more intense than usual) with it it finally snapped. Two or more chances to use magic at this strength wouldn't be so bad if the consequence wasn't being reduced to his non-EW magic.

5. Yeah I didn't quite get an answer; Planetary sized creature and a guy that tanks Universe busting attacks, will the AK kill them for their low-level killing capabilities, yay or nay? Basically what I'm still waiting for is for you to give me the limits of AK's power.

Pointless then. Its killing capabilities is to end human life. If being a wizard means anything, as you seem to always be inferring, then we can look at the magical level of wizards and Dorf. Or we can compare the fact that unlike these wizards, Dorf has a perma-resistance offered by the Triforce, a type of magic that allowed him to survive being killed.

And speaking of magical resistance, love has been stated to be a magic that can defend from and even deflect AK. This proves that powerful protective magic can resist AK. And thats exactly what the Triforce offers.

To speak nothing about the vast difference physically and magically between them, both Harry and Ganondorf have really powerful magical protections. Love and the Triforce which have both proven to be very powerful, both proven to protect the two and both have been proven so save them from death situations.

1. Wrong. Twilight only works if Hyrule is unbalanced which doesn't pertain to other worlds. Do any of you Hyrule heathens even grasp this yet ?

The spirits are the key to the Twilight power even working. So you're dancing around the issue but haven't stumbled onto it yet. The arrows worked because they are an opposite to Dorf trying to balance out the equation. That's it. Polar opposites and all.

What ?

2. I'm not saying he interrogates him but that he has him at his mercy for the duration of the spell just like anyone else in the Potter verse it successfully is applied to. Not more pain the same pain which leaves him vulnerable and unable to defend himself.

Crucio wins the thread. He can inflict it however long he wants to with his opponent at his mercy effectively winning the thread.

3. Depends on what hits them, where, force applied, position of body, etc. ie. too many unknown variables without seeing the actual thing ourselves.

We don't see what hits Ganondorf if anything coupled with his teleportational powers suggests nothing might have even struck him.

You can be parried in the rest of the game and the training implies his skill is vital to his quest. It doesn't imply a superiority when he gets the master sword. We don't know what magic if any is inside the executioners blade. That's the thing. You just assume out of fanboyism.

He survived a sword strike by the top resisting the fatal strike not the damage incurred. We see him change form ad the hole exists implying he cannot heal from it.

Prove this. We see him change form by the top so he alter his body structure yet he cannot heal from ancient wounds in beast form or in in humanoid form.

Key word is specific magic works despite the top.
1). Mirror successfully bfrs by specific magic
2). MS successfully dispels top by specific magic.
3). Avada Kedavra kills by specific magic.
4). Crucio inflicts unimaginable agony by specific magic.

There isn't a single example of him resisting specific magic. Glad we got that out of the way.

Top can overcome durability or a natural death incurred by damage to the body not specific magic which doesn't affect the body.

4. He immediately broke the shield when he interceded. That shows a greater display of power than hundreds of wizards over the course of many minutes.

What do you mean it caused him to stop ? Are you referring to the Elder Wand cracking ? Be more specific.

5. Depends on magical resistance and what not. This isn't. Durability attack so strength of power is a moot point.

False. It ends a wizards life. Not the same as humans since they can make themselves immortal. Strength of body is also irrelevant as I previously said. I already broke this Dorf nonsense above.

You ignore the context of the love counter charm. Dorf also is without love so a moot point. A person needs to give their life for it to even work making a one vs one thread impossible to do so. It's ridiculous. It's a counter just like the MS is a counter to the top as it dispels magic.

Harry had help, his mother sacrificed herself, a Horcrux inside him, etc. context isn't your ally it is your enemy.

Voldemort wins, clearly.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Both work on Dorf the wielder of the top. 😂

No, it's perfectly relevant.

What have I ignored ?


Only one actually interacts with the ToP.

Irrelevant.

You're trying to ignore the HH manga, part of Hyrule Historia, which you are using as canon. This book has the Master Sword slice a small continent out of the earth with a single swing. haermm But of course, you want to ignore that, since it makes Voldemort and the entire HPverse look like ass.

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
Only one actually interacts with the ToP.

Irrelevant.

You're trying to ignore the HH manga, part of Hyrule Historia, which you are using as canon. This book has the Master Sword slice a small continent out of the earth with a single swing. haermm But of course, you want to ignore that, since it makes Voldemort and the entire HPverse look like ass.

Both work on the wielder of the top user. We are debating the user and both magics clearly defeated the pansy.

You can't prove why it is irrelevant just baseless claims.

This is regards to Tp and the sword does not such thing. You're biased and trying to site a non canon manga out of desperation.

But only one interacts with the ToP. The other is irrelevant.

It's irrelevant because Superman is weak to Kryptonite, it's part of his biology. The triforce has no such weakness, ergo it's a flawed comparison.

And yet it's in HH. Is HH canon?

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
But only one interacts with the ToP. The other is irrelevant.

It's irrelevant because Superman is weak to Kryptonite, it's part of his biology. The triforce has no such weakness, ergo it's a flawed comparison.

And yet it's in HH. Is HH canon?

Both worked on the top user. Fact. Both defeated him. Fact. Your opinion-not fact.

Both are examples of reactions when certain materials or substances come into contact with others. K-nite depowers Superman. MS dispels top magic so both have weaknesses when interacted with by the other.

The game is also canon and clearly state Ms balances out evil in Hyrule.

Only one interacted with the ToP, fact. The other is irrelevant to comparisons of power, fact.

Superman reacts to kryptonite, the triforce does not react to the master sword. Hurr durr. And if you want to claim it does, prove it.

This does not make the triforce vulnerable, and you're misusing the Quote. Zelda tells Link that there is darkness but also light, and to go get the Master Sword. She makes no statements on relative power whatsoever. Ergo, no contradiction between it and HH. HH says it's powerful enough to sunder the earth, is HH canon?

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
Only one interacted with the ToP, fact. The other is irrelevant to comparisons of power, fact.

Superman reacts to kryptonite, the triforce does not react to the master sword. Hurr durr. And if you want to claim it does, prove it.

This does not make the triforce vulnerable, and you're misusing the Quote. Zelda tells Link that there is darkness but also light, and to go get the Master Sword. She makes no statements on relative power whatsoever. Ergo, no contradiction between it and HH. HH says it's powerful enough to sunder the earth, is HH canon?

Both have different functions, fact. One dispels magic, fact. Worked. Fact. One banishes victim to other realm. Fact. Both functions worked on lame ass top. Fact.

MS dispels tops magic. Fact. K-nite negates Supermans power. Fact.

No, you think everything is power based and have no concept of reality.

Ms is there to destroy evil ie destroys Dorf.

So you have nothing that supports your argument and ignore that the mirror was completely indirect. It's like complaining that Hulk is weak because he keeps his feat on the ground most of the time and is therefore beaten by gravity.

Superman has a vulnerability, the triforce has no such thing.

And you make shit up to support points that don't make sense.

Right, the sword beats Dorf, but do you know why? It's not because Fi is such a nice lady. It's because she is hard-****ing-core. Rubbing kindness on the blade didn't make it what it is, the gods empowering it did.

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
So you have nothing that supports your argument and ignore that the mirror was completely indirect. It's like complaining that Hulk is weak because he keeps his feat on the ground most of the time and is therefore beaten by gravity.

Superman has a vulnerability, the triforce has no such thing.

And you make shit up to support points that don't make sense.

Right, the sword beats Dorf, but do you know why? It's not because Fi is such a nice lady. It's because she is hard-****ing-core. Rubbing kindness on the blade didn't make it what it is, the gods empowering it did.

Mirrors function works. It's magic according to your logic overpowered shitty Top magic.

Top can have its magic dispelled by ms aka weakness. Both have vulnerabilities. Mirror can also bfr pansy top user.

Blade dispels magic. Top magic is dispelled.

The mirror function has nothing to do with the ToP. Again, you do not understand my logic, ergo do not pretend to be able to use it.

The Master Sword is not a weakness. So no.

Because the sword is empowered by the gods to do so, not because the triforce is allergic.

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
The mirror function has nothing to do with the ToP. Again, you do not understand my logic, ergo do not pretend to be able to use it.

The Master Sword is not a weakness. So no.

Because the sword is empowered by the gods to do so, not because the triforce is allergic.

Not even you understand your own logic.

The mirrors magic bfrs top user. Magic can work against another magic user without overpowering it.

Yes, it can be viewed that way. Is purpose is to banish evil and dispel magic. Dispel means disperse the magic of the top not overpowering it thus also working.

Both magical items have a purpose and both achieved their purpose against the wielder of the top. 😂

Originally posted by quanchi112
Not even you understand your own logic.

The mirrors magic bfrs top user. Magic can work against another magic user without overpowering it.

Yes, it can be viewed that way. Is purpose is to banish evil and dispel magic. Dispel means disperse the magic of the top not overpowering it thus also working.

Both magical items have a purpose and both achieved their purpose against the wielder of the top. 😂


Want me to use smaller words to help you out?

Gravity works on Hulk without overpowering him.

No, it cannot be viewed that way, because it is not that way. "Dispel" does not mean "Not overpower" so lol.

Indirect, never interacted with the ToP at all. How many times do I have to point this out? If the mirror and ToP didn't interact there is literally no point in bringing it up in discussion of the ToP because it showed nothing relevant at all because the two items never interacted.