Cyclops (Full Phoenix Force) VS The Void

with 1/5 of the pf a group of the most powerful avengers including thor (who is >>loki) could barely knock namor DOWN. scott would incinerate loki in a heartbeat if he chose--though he wouldn't have since he was still fighting the pf. he wouldn't have any such inhibition here in the forum. and this nonsensical no limits fallacy about the void not being able to die unless it wants to really needs to stop. so who CAN kill it? galactus? thanos with the ig? lt? classic beyonder? where exactly does the no limits end....?

ends with scott imo.

Just a question, because I don't actually understand the Void entirely, but is it an abstract part of the universe in the same way the PF is? Or is it an aspect of Sentry/Sentry and aspect of it? If that makes sense... Like, the Sentry isn't a "host" for the Void, but rather, is the Void?

Like, not saying that makes a whole lot of difference here (unless we are inferring things about the intent of a character), just curious.

Also, given this isn't the PF vs the Void, but rather, the PF needs to work through the host: Isn't Cyclops the weak link here? Like, Void could simply kill Summers and the fight would be over, without the Void having to defeat the actual PF. Like, sure, it wouldn't kill the PF or Cyclops for any prolonged period, but it would be enough for a vs Forum win, no?

void is the dark side of sentry's power, you're right about that. he is not an abstract per se, more of a......manifestation i guess? and you're right--scott would definitely be the weak link--except in this battle, in this forum, he's been granted full power and no inhibitions/cis to interfere with his task. i really can't see how anyone can make a leap to conclude that void (who was harmed badly by a helicarrier and thor) can suddenly take on something like a fully powered pf host. maybe had void faced off against odin 1on1 for a length of time, we could have SOME basis for reaching the conclusion, but as it is, to say he wins because he only dies when he wants to is clearly a no limits fallacy that needs to stop. i don't even really care if someone thinks void wins this--just justify it with something aside from no limits.

dark phoenix cyclops should erase the void. I usually debate in favour of void's seemingly limitless resilience, but the phoneix is an abstract. one that embodies death/rebirth at that.

the void's best offensive feats (loki, MM, ares) just don't cut here.

scott does not have the experience or the mental stability to control the full PF properly. Nor does he have any feats worthy of mention during the course of the battle. scott was defeated through a plot device (the Iron Fist & Chaos magic) in the same way the void was defeated by the norn stones. the hellicarrier only weakened him because of the norn stone activation. the void was able to destroy most of the MU heroes and destroyed Loki. PF scott did not demonstrate the same mastery of the PF during the course of the battle. also, if scott had been "holding back" he wouldn't have killed xavier.

scott's mental instability is the key factor in confrontation. the void was already stated has having erased the memory of the sentry from everyone in the world. that kind of telepathic ability suggests that scott would be at a sever disadvantage. also, if the molecule man couldn't erase the void from existence, PF powered scott wouldn't be able to.

Unless I'm remembering wrong, Void didn't wipe everyone's memories.

And where is this perceived mental instability coming from on Cyclops' part?

Originally posted by leonidas
void is the dark side of sentry's power, you're right about that. he is not an abstract per se, more of a......manifestation i guess? and you're right--scott would definitely be the weak link--except in this battle, in this forum, he's been granted full power and no inhibitions/cis to interfere with his task. i really can't see how anyone can make a leap to conclude that void (who was harmed badly by a helicarrier and thor) can suddenly take on something like a fully powered pf host. maybe had void faced off against odin 1on1 for a length of time, we could have SOME basis for reaching the conclusion, but as it is, to say he wins because he only dies when he wants to is clearly a no limits fallacy that needs to stop. i don't even really care if someone thinks void wins this--just justify it with something aside from no limits.

cool, thanks 🙂

Originally posted by wildernesss
scott does not have the experience or the mental stability to control the full PF properly.

OP says Scott has full access to the PF will total control, does it not?

Originally posted by -Pr-
Unless I'm remembering wrong, Void didn't wipe everyone's memories.

iirc, it was a machine made by Reed and Dr. Strange, unless they changed that at some point.

IIRC it was later retconned into sentry fueling the memory erasure gimmick, though he still needed assistance to get it done.

cyclops was indeed holding back as demonstrated by his inner dialogue at the end, especially when he kills beast then undoes it and wonders whether he could undo all the havok he's wreaking, xavier included.

although the mm couldnt erase the void permanently, I do believe the PF>>post-retcon MM

Originally posted by wildernesss

what part of void doesn't die unless he wants to don't you understand?

Cyclops makes him want to 😛

-No...it wasn't reed and strange...that's from the mini; mastermind mind controlled bob reynolds into using the sentry/void's telepathy to erase the memory of sentry/void from everyone in the world. and was the sentry/void's power alone that fueled this. this is the same mastermind that brainwashed jean grey phoenix.

-cyclops perceived mental instability is coming from the fact that he is mentally unstable

He's not mentally unstable, though.

Weally

well, he was pretty out of it by the end of avx, but scott himself isnt unstable. unlike bob reynolds

Originally posted by 753
although the mm couldnt erase the void permanently, I do believe the PF>>post-retcon MM

pre-retcon MM was defeated by a depowered Thing and Man-Thing 😛

[Marvel Two-in-One #1]

Originally posted by 753
well, he was pretty out of it by the end of avx, but scott himself isnt unstable. unlike bob reynolds

were talking about the void here. not bob reynolds. void in full control means no bob. scott is still running most of the show when he hosting the PF.

and yes, scott is unstable, sorry to say. he's an egomaniac who thought he would be capable of controlling and harnessing a universal force of destruction to positive ends. that's borderline Luciferian until he became fully Luciferian. he also doesn't seem to think muc of tossing teenagers into harms way. that's called uber phucked up.

Just to clarify then, in the OP, you gave full PF power to Cyclops but not full control?

Cyclops being less morally good than he used to be isn't a sign of mental instability, unless you can prove he was somehow compromised.

if he has as much control in this thread as he did in the arc, or rather, the phoenix had as much influence, then there's no real instability to speak of, tbh.

Originally posted by Oliver North
Just to clarify then, in the OP, you gave full PF power to Cyclops but not full control?

full PF power doesn't even allow for full control unless the host is someone like rachael grey...in which case she was only hosting a fraction of the force IIRC. scott is more mentally unstable than jean grey was and jean couldn't even control it.

Originally posted by wildernesss
full PF power doesn't even allow for full control unless the host is someone like rachael grey...in which case she was only hosting a fraction of the force IIRC. scott is more mentally unstable than jean grey
was and jean couldn't even control it.

fair enough.

To someone who hasn't read AvX, that sort of seems like you are slanting the odds in favor of the Void. Like, any individual who was given full PF power would have issues controlling it.

Basically, its (Cyclops vs the PF) vs the Void. Cyclops is fighting two forces it seems.

Originally posted by wildernesss
were talking about the void here. not bob reynolds. void in full control means no bob. scott is still running most of the show when he hosting the PF.

and yes, scott is unstable, sorry to say. he's an egomaniac who thought he would be capable of controlling and harnessing a universal force of destruction to positive ends. that's borderline Luciferian until he became fully Luciferian. he also doesn't seem to think tossing teenagers into harms way. that's called uber phucked up.