Bane & Zannah vs Satele and Marek

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

I forgot that I am expected to follow your belief in all this. Also, claims such as "you have lost" are premature when I defeated your argument in another thread not long ago.

I suggest that you stop underestimating TOR era greats.

You haven't defeated anyone in anything, but whatever gets you through the day. I don't underestimate anything from the TOR era. I do, however, refuse to entertain the notion that Revan, Malgus and Satele are above and beyond Sidious, Vader, Yoda and Bane without you showing evidence that supports it.

The cutscene is cool, but it does not put Satele or Malgus in the book of greatest ever. Your arguments have been torn apart time and time again because they lack anything resembling worthwhile evidence.

Also, considering the clip shows a regular trooper tanking Malgus' lightning that unfortunately weakens the legs that you didn't even have to stand on to begin with.

Originally posted by Ascendancy
You haven't defeated anyone in anything, but whatever gets you through the day.

Also, you are in no position to decide which debates I won and lost in my debating history in this forum. You stick to own history instead.

Originally posted by Ascendancy
I don't underestimate anything from the TOR era. I do, however, refuse to entertain the notion that Revan, Malgus and Satele are above and beyond Sidious, Vader, Yoda and Bane without you showing evidence that supports it.

Nowhere I have claimed that Revan, Malgus and Satele are above and beyond Yoda and Sidious. However, these guys have shown comparable combat performance. Barring Sidious, I find no one else in your list who is better then Revan, Malgus and Satele.

Also, Satele have certainly demonstrated raw power on par with that of Yoda in Hope trailer. As much as you protest against this, it doesn't changes my observation about her. I am not implying that Yoda cannot do better but same is true for Satele.

Originally posted by Ascendancy
The cutscene is cool, but it does not put Satele or Malgus in the book of greatest ever. Your arguments have been torn apart time and time again because they lack anything resembling worthwhile evidence.

1- How many guys have you seen in a fight holding a powerful opponent at bay with one hand and using the other to rip apart a gigantic object from its foundation simultaneously?

2- How many guys have you seen blocking a lightsaber blade with bare hands through raw power?

3- How many guys have you seen tearing a gigantic rocky formation to shreds with a Force wave?

And all of the above feats in a same duel in a realistic medium nonetheless. You have no point here.

Originally posted by Ascendancy
Also, considering the clip shows a regular trooper tanking Malgus' lightning that unfortunately weakens the legs that you didn't even have to stand on to begin with.

Also, Malgus was apparently toying with Jace with his Force lightning; when Malgus plans to kill with Force lightning, story is different:

Malgus, not to be outdone, picked a Jedi Knight at random, a human female ten meters away, held forth his left hand, and discharged veins of blue lightning from his fingertips. The jagged lines of energy cut a swath through the battle, harvesting two Padawans as they went, until they caught up to the Jedi Knight and lifted her off her feet.

She screamed as the lightning ripped into her, her flesh made temporarily translucent from the dark power coursing through her. Malgus savored her pain as she died. (Star Wars: Deceived)

Malgus is canonically regarded as one of the Sith Order's greatest warriors. Don't make premature assumptions without adequate research in this subject.

Satele on par with Yoda? lul
When Satele Shan is able to toss around CIS landing craft, send one of the most powerful Sith in history in retreat on a Dark Side nexus, and outduel the most powerful Sith in history. Come back to me.

Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
Satele on par with Yoda? lul

Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
When Satele Shan is able to toss around CIS landing craft,

Maybe we need to critically analyze the "value" of feats.

Feats performed during the heat of combat should be distinguished from those which are performed with full concentration.

Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
send one of the most powerful Sith in history in retreat on a Dark Side nexus,

I wonder what she could do as a Grand Master.

Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
and outduel the most powerful Sith in history. Come back to me.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

Marek performed better feats but got his @ss handed to him by guess who?

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Yes.

Marek performed better feats but got his @ss handed to him by guess who?

The most powerful Sith Lord in history. What's your point?

She literally manhandled one of the Sith Order's greatest warriors with her powers as a Jedi Knight, as depicted in Hope trailer.

I wonder what she could do as a Grand Master.

Yoda didn't outduel him. In fact, Sidious would have killed Yoda when he knocked him out early on but Sidious wasted the opportunity. [/B]

"YODA unleashes a ferocious assault on PALPATINE, causing him to almost go over the edge. The Dark Lord drops his lightsaber but recovers with a BLAST OF ENERGY from his hands that surrounds YODA. YODA is deflecting the Sith Lord's lightning bolts.

The energy bolts begin to arc back on the Emperor. It looks as if the Dark Lord is doomed."-ROTS official screenplay.

Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
No.

Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
The most powerful Sith Lord in history. What's your point?

Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
No she didn't. Were it not for Jace she would have died.

Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
So do I...too bad that it's unquantifiable.

Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
Lol nice try.

"YODA unleashes a ferocious assault on PALPATINE, causing him to almost go over the edge. The Dark Lord drops his lightsaber but recovers with a BLAST OF ENERGY from his hands that surrounds YODA. YODA is deflecting the Sith Lord's lightning bolts.

The energy bolts begin to arc back on the Emperor. It looks as if the Dark Lord is doomed."-ROTS official screenplay.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
This is subjective opinion.

We have other contenders now; do not forget.

She may also have unleashed a blast of power to knock Malgus off his feat or shut off the lightsaber itself. See? We are dealing with possibilities in this case.

Malgus may also have blasted her with lighting to incapacitate her.

She is already very impressive as a Jedi Knight. She would have further grown in power and skill after the events in Aldeeran and this means a lot of things.

[/QUOTE]
Nice try! But this doesn't dismiss my point. [/QUOTE]

That wasn't my point. My point was Yoda also had the chance to finish Sidious in that fight. Sidious~Yoda.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

Jace Malcom is the best Republic soldier in the Galaxy in his time as per revelations in Star Wars The Old Republic Encyclopedia. Genius, first get your facts straight and then talk.

Malgus is canonically regarded as one of the Sith Order's greatest warriors. Don't make premature assumptions without adequate research in this subject.

One, it doesn't matter how great a soldier is, he's still a normal human and to tank that still diminishes Malgus' power at that point.

Secondly, you are the one who needs to stop living in delusion and present some evidence supporting your claims. You have yet to ever put fourth a coherent argument as to Malgus being one of the greatest, period. The thread you posted shows that, as you were shown to be on the losing side of the argument by multiple posters.

You really do exist in your own little universe where anything contrary to what you want to think passes through your mind without so much as being evaluated. Again, evidence: find some.

Malgus' feats show that he is approximately at the level of a high tier Dark Council member. I don't think anyone really disputes that

Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
Malgus' feats show that he is approximately at the level of a high tier Dark Council member. I don't think anyone really disputes that

No, I'm disputing that he and Revan are each capable of defeating Sidious one on one as DP has suggested elsewhere, and I see nothing that leads me to agree with DP's assessment of him as one of the greatest Sith ever or with his opinion that Satele is beyond Yoda.

Originally posted by Ascendancy
No, I'm disputing that he and Revan are each capable of defeating Sidious one on one as DP has suggested elsewhere,

Originally posted by Ascendancy and I see nothing that leads me to agree with DP's assessment of him as one of the greatest Sith ever

1.

Even before the Great War, Malgus was widely regarded as one of the greatest warriors in the Sith Empire. (Star Wars The Complete Encyclopedia)

2.

Over the years, these writings were passed among numerous Sith and Jedi, who added their comments to the pages. In his quest for domination, Darth Sidious tracked down what remained of five pivotal Sith texts written by his most powerful predecessors. Then, drawing on the knowledge within the compiled pages, he wrote a sixth text—his own manifesto. Together, these documents, along with several collected objects associated with them, shed light on the philosophy, achievements, and failures of the Sith Order. (The Book of Sith: Secrets from the Dark Side)

The "identified" individuals are;

1. Sorzus Syn
2. Darth Malgus
3. Darth Bane
4. Mother Talzin
5. Darth Plagueis

-----

You may consider these 5 as "among the most powerful" in the big picture.

Originally posted by Ascendancy
or with his opinion that Satele is beyond Yoda.

My point that "I shudder to think what she could do as a Grand Jedi Master" implies that their is more to her then what has been depicted in the Hope trailer. Yoda is relatively more explored in the mythos but we cannot rule out the possibility that Satele matches him in the big picture at minimum.

Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
Yoda is the most devastating foe darkness has ever known as per canon. Satele will never be his superior. Nor is knight Satele on par with Yoda.

Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
No you should not forget. GL has made it painfully clear that Sidious is the most powerful. Vitiate is nothing more than a Sidious clone.

Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
Malgus may also have blasted her with lighting to incapacitate her.

Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
Unquantifiable.

Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
That wasn't my point. My point was Yoda also had the chance to finish Sidious in that fight. Sidious~Yoda.

Originally posted by Ascendancy
One, it doesn't matter how great a soldier is, he's still a normal human and to tank that still diminishes Malgus' power at that point.

See? Their can be multiple interpretations of this event.

As I have disclosed earlier with evidence; if Malgus wants to kill with his FL abilities, he can do it.

Originally posted by Ascendancy
Secondly, you are the one who needs to stop living in delusion and present some evidence supporting your claims. You have yet to ever put fourth a coherent argument as to Malgus being one of the greatest, period. The thread you posted shows that, as you were shown to be on the losing side of the argument by multiple posters.

You really do exist in your own little universe where anything contrary to what you want to think passes through your mind without so much as being evaluated. Again, evidence: find some.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

I haven't explicitly stated this anywhere. Every Force-wielder packs raw power. However, with formal training, a Force-wielder learns to harnass his/her power. Satele seems to be on par with Yoda in this aspect.

My point that "I shudder to think what she could do as a Grand Jedi Master" implies that their is more to her then what has been depicted in the Hope trailer. Yoda is relatively more explored in the mythos but we cannot rule out the possibility that Satele matches him in the big picture at minimum.

Firstly, your second post on this page explicitly states that you think Satele to be Yoda's equal. Secondly, your second paragraph here explicitly states the same thing that you claim in your first paragraph that you never explicitly stated. You say, "[W]e cannot rule out the possibility that Satele matches him in the big picture at minimum," implying that at worst she is his equal, though she likely is beyond him.

You may think that, but you'll be hard pressed to find anyone else who does. More importantly, it is stated that Yoda is the greatest threat the Darkside had ever faced. Just contemplate that for a second.

I'll just leave you with that as it pretty much sums up the majority of arguments you've attempted to make here recently: convoluted, baseless, and contradictory.

Originally posted by Ascendancy
Firstly, your second post on this page explicitly states that you think Satele to be Yoda's equal.

Originally posted by Ascendancy
Secondly, your second paragraph here explicitly states the same thing that you claim in your first paragraph that you never explicitly stated. You say, "[W]e cannot rule out the possibility that Satele matches him in the big picture at minimum," implying that at worst she is his equal, though she likely is beyond him.

Originally posted by Ascendancy
You may think that, but you'll be hard pressed to find anyone else who does.

I have already demolished the assertion that Dooku is a match for Satele in another thread. Let us see how things pan out further.

Originally posted by Ascendancy More importantly, it is stated that Yoda is the greatest threat the Darkside had ever faced. Just contemplate that for a second.

Hype doesn't works in every scenario.

Originally posted by Ascendancy
I'll just leave you with that as it pretty much sums up the majority of arguments you've attempted to make here recently: convoluted, baseless, and contradictory.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

What about Luke? What about Hero of Tython?

Hype doesn't works in every scenario.

It's not hype, it's canon. I'm done replying to your posts until you start living in the land of logic and facts.