What if Anakin killed Obi Wan on Mustafar?

Originally posted by PhoenixSam5
Here's where i got the misconception that Emperor Vader wouldn't have kept the death star.

http://boards.theforce.net/threads/would-vader-have-kept-the-death-star-if-he-was-emperor.50004690/

If you read the comments below, the TFN users keep saying that Vader didn't believe in using the death star.

how odd. then again tfn is a silly place. perfect example of what happens when a bunch of people make a habit of blindly agreeing with eachother.

but just so we're clear, i wasnt labeling any speculation as false. for all we know maybe vader did hate the idea of the deathstar. the point i was making was that no evidence was given for or against, as vader never gave his opinion on the thing.

Originally posted by focus4chumps
how odd. then again tfn is a silly place. perfect example of what happens when a bunch of people make a habit of blindly agreeing with eachother.

but just so we're clear, i wasnt labeling any speculation as false. for all we know maybe vader did hate the idea of the deathstar. the point i was making was that no evidence was given for or against, as vader never gave his opinion on the thing.

What do you mean by TFN being a silly place? I don't quite understand what you mean by that, bro.

I used to have an account over there, but let's not discuss that on the boards and derail this thread, I can send you a PM about my horrible TFN experiences.

Nothing in the story contradicts or confirms the theory that Vader didn't really think the death star was useful or anything, he just said that the power of the Force was much greater than the death star's power. But he did say not to be too proud of the death star, a technological terror.

But I don't think Vader was against the usage of technology in and of itself., I mean he flew around in his starfighter and his tie fighter and he loved his star destroyer.

Originally posted by PhoenixSam5
It would have played out the same. A non-burned Anakin/Vader greets the Emperor with the clonetroopers as they arrive and get off of Palpatine's ship.

However, I don't think

A-the Emperor had a new red lightsaber on him at the time that he arrived on Mustafar, would the ROTS Emperor Vader have gotten a red lightsaber eventually? Hopefully.

B-Vader would have killed the Emperor right there at the scene, for two reasons. A-because there were all of those clones right there that would have shot him if he did that right away, and B-he would have at least kept him alive for some time to try to save Padme from death with Plageuis's darkside power.

It's just a game...

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
...

It's just a game...

I know. That's what I was saying, alternate storylines aren't canon, and they contradict speculation that actually makes sense.

you have a weird way of wording an agreement as a contradiction/disagreement. oh well. anyway yes thats what i was alluding to:

Originally posted by focus4chumps
he berated the senior officers' blind hubris in regard to the deathstar.

it can possibly be argued that he was also expressing resentment for not being properly respected, with the empire seemingly placing technology ahead of the force in importance. notice everyone treats him like a foppish old relic in ep4, and tarkin goes on to suggest that vader/the force is obsolete. this, again, has everything to do with vader's dislike of certain senior officers' attitudes toward the deathstar, not the death star itself.

Originally posted by focus4chumps
you have a weird way of wording an agreement as a contradiction/disagreement. oh well. anyway yes thats what i was alluding to:

it can possibly be argued that he was also expressing resentment for not being properly respected, with the empire seemingly placing technology ahead of the force in importance. notice everyone treats him like a foppish old relic in ep4, and tarkin goes on to suggest that vader/the force is obsolete. this, again, has everything to do with vader's dislike of certain senior officers' attitudes toward the deathstar, not the death star itself.

Yes, but he said to not be too proud of the death star, as the powerful of the Force is much more powerful than the death star's technology, so what he said probably did involve the death star.

You said that TFN in a wierd place? How so?

Personally, I love the idea of Emperor Vader in Episode 3 (the darth vader that never got burned up and never became more machine than man,) blowing up alderaan in ANH, with the death star in his empire, looking like a middle aged Hayden Christensen.

I hope the TFN speculation is false. I just love the hypothethical ROTS Emperor Vader with the death star.

I think the ROTS Emperor Vader, as this thread is all about, and I'll request a title change thread very soon, is much more interesting than the Luke joining Vader in TESB or ROTJ.

Originally posted by PhoenixSam5
Yes, but he said to not be too proud of the death star, as the powerful of the Force is much more powerful than the death star's technology, so what he said probably did involve the death star.

right, but again you have to take the context of his words into consideration, as it related to the argument. the soon-to-be-choked officer goes on a tirade about how the rebels are powerless and that the death star was invincible. it was an admonishment against hubris and over-reliance on technology, not an admonishment of having and using said technology.

Originally posted by PhoenixSam5
You said that TFN in a wierd place? How so?

i already told you.

Originally posted by PhoenixSam5
Personally, I love the idea of Emperor Vader in Episode 3 (the darth vader that never got burned up and never became more machine than man,) blowing up alderaan in ANH, with the death star in his empire, looking like a middle aged Hayden Christensen.

*shudder*

Originally posted by PhoenixSam5
I hope the TFN speculation is false. I just love the hypothethical ROTS Emperor Vader with the death star.

its not false speculation. its just that their speculation in that case was figured with false data. (proceeding from the notion that vader hated the deathstar, based on a misinterpretation).

Originally posted by focus4chumps
right, but again you have to take the context of his words into consideration, as it related to the argument. the soon-to-be-choked officer goes on a tirade about how the rebels are powerless and that the death star was invincible. it was an admonishment against hubris and over-reliance on technology, not an admonishment of having and using said technology.

i already told you.

*shudder*

its not false speculation. its just that their speculation in that case was figured with false data. (proceeding from the notion that vader hated the deathstar, based on a misinterpretation).

Why shudder?

I now mean that I wish their conclusion was false, don't you?

What exactly was the false data of the specific TFN users?

What does hubris mean?

I should have told them this at TFN and actually wrote more meaningful posts to expand this discussion with them, but I made the mod lock the thread unintentionally by my bad posts.

Conan antonio motti was talking about the death star being the most powerful thing (the ultimate power) in the universe, and that it was invincible and impossible to destroy.

I should have explained that to them.

Originally posted by PhoenixSam5

I now mean that I wish their conclusion was false, don't you?

i find their misinformed speculations to be of no personal consequence.

Originally posted by PhoenixSam5
What exactly was the false data of the specific TFN users?

the assumption that vader disliked the death star.

Originally posted by PhoenixSam5
What does hubris mean?

pride/arrogance

Originally posted by focus4chumps
i find their misinformed speculations to be of no personal consequence.

the assumption that vader disliked the death star.

pride/arrogance

I don't think Vader's comment about the Force being more powerful than the death star had to do with their disrespect of him-I mean, the Force can only choke you or zap you with lightning at it's best.

that whole ben kenobi immortality thing?

luke turning off his targeting computer and blowing up the deathstar using the force to guide him?

were you not impressed or did you just miss those parts?

Originally posted by focus4chumps
that whole ben kenobi immortality thing?

luke turning off his targeting computer and blowing up the deathstar using the force to guide him?

were you not impressed or did you just miss those parts?

I think it may have been a foreshadowing to the Force destroying the death star, maybe.

The Force could give people eternal life, and it could even destroy the death star itself. I don't think Anakin knew the second part about the death star being destroyed by the Force though, definitley.

Originally posted by PhoenixSam5

The Force could give people eternal life

well "afterlife" really, unless you suspect palpatine wasnt lying.

Originally posted by PhoenixSam5
and it could even destroy the death star itself. I don't think Anakin knew the second part about the death star being destroyed by the Force though, definitley.

absolutely he suspected it.

Cassio Tagge: And until this battle station is fully operational, we are vulnerable. The Rebel Alliance is too well equipped. They're more dangerous than you realize!

Conan Antonio Motti: Dangerous to your starfleet, Commander, not to this battle station.

Tagge: The Rebellion will continue to gain a support in the Imperial Senate, until...

Wilhuff Tarkin: [walking in with Darth Vader] The Imperial Senate will no longer be of any concern to us. I have just received word that the Emperor has dissolved the council permanently. The last remnants of the Old Republic have been swept away.

Tagge: That's impossible! How will the Emperor maintain control without the bureaucracy?

Tarkin: The regional governors now have direct control over their territories. Fear will keep the local systems in line. Fear of this battle station.

Tagge: And what of the Rebellion? If the Rebels have obtained a complete technical readout of this station, it is possible - however unlikely - that they might find a weakness and exploit it.

Vader: The plans you refer to will soon be back in our hands.

Motti: Any attack made by the Rebels against this station would be a useless gesture, no matter what technical data they've obtained. This station is now the ultimate power in the universe! I suggest we use it.

Vader: Don't be too proud of this technological terror you've constructed. The ability to destroy a planet is insignificant next to the power of the Force.

Motti: Don't try to frighten us with your sorcerer's ways, Lord Vader. [etc]

vader is clearly speculating on a possible threat to the deathstar by the rebels possibly using the force. its clear as day.

Originally posted by focus4chumps
well "afterlife" really, unless you suspect palpatine wasnt lying.

absolutely he suspected it.

vader is clearly speculating on a possible threat to the deathstar by the rebels possibly using the force. its clear as day.

By eternal life, I meant the afterlife. That's just how many religions call it.

Well, I disagree with you on that one.

First of all, the Force destroyed the first death star. But, in this scene, I don't interpert Anakin/Vader warning the imperials about that.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zzs-OvfG8tE

In the context of that scene, I don't think Vader was telling them that a Force user would destroy the death star.

the topic of the discussion was a possible rebel attack and destruction of the death star using the technical plans. vader was directly answering a declaration that the death star was invincible. its blatant.

you are disagreeing with fact, not speculation. i mean, feel free to do so, but you are absolutely wrong.

I don't think Anakin would be strong enough to kill Palpatine straight away. He would take a while to get stronger, and depending on if he received further training. That's just my take on it, EU fanboys gon' rage.

Originally posted by Placidity
I don't think Anakin would be strong enough to kill Palpatine straight away. He would take a while to get stronger, and depending on if he received further training. That's just my take on it, EU fanboys gon' rage.

Yeah, Lord Lucien was right, the ROTS alternate ending was just a video game non canon ending. Anakin wouldn't just kill Palps right away.

Palpatine had mastered to the Force to the point of never sleeping. That's why Vader never got the chance to kill him in the OT. If Vader tried to strike him, the force lightning would kill him. He needed Luke's help.

But, as GL had stated, Anakin would have eventually grown to be twice as powerful in the Force as Sidious had he never been burnt on Mustafar.

I still think Padme would have died, though.

Yeah Padme died of an achy breaky heart--one way or another she'd be done for.

Vader's weakness to Lightning was established in both RotJ and in Dark Lord: Rise of Darth Vader... until TFU came along and blew that out of the water by having Vader zapped by Kamehame-ha sized Lightning blasts. The EU's kinda gay sometimes.

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
Yeah Padme died of an achy breaky heart--one way or another she'd be done for.

Vader's weakness to Lightning was established in both RotJ and in Dark Lord: Rise of Darth Vader... until TFU came along and blew that out of the water by having Vader zapped by Kamehame-ha sized Lightning blasts. The EU's kinda gay sometimes.

She died of a broken heart. The darkside wasn't gonna save her either way. Either Yoda takes one of the twins and vader takes the other in a duel or vader takes both of the twins.

The lightning destroyed his life support suit.

Yeah, I hate EU plot holes just like the next guy.

Originally posted by focus4chumps
the topic of the discussion was a possible rebel attack and destruction of the death star using the technical plans. vader was directly answering a declaration that the death star was invincible. its blatant.

you are disagreeing with fact, not speculation. i mean, feel free to do so, but you are absolutely wrong.

Yes, it's true that in the context of the scene they were talking about the possibility of the rebels blowing up the death star, but I don't think Vader was talking about a possible Jedi pilot blowing up the death star at that point.