What if Anakin killed Obi Wan on Mustafar?

Originally posted by PhoenixSam5
Yes, it's true that in the context of the scene they were talking about the possibility of the rebels blowing up the death star, but I don't think Vader was talking about a possible Jedi pilot blowing up the death star at that point.

yes he was. if you want to quibble about it, his implication was regarding all force-users and not just jedi as a threat, but YES. HE. WAS.

why wouldnt he suspect that jedi still exist and that they would naturally join forces with the alliance if any where alive? do you consider him a complete ass?

Originally posted by focus4chumps
yes he was. if you want to quibble about it, his implication was regarding all force-users and not just jedi as a threat, but YES. HE. WAS.

why wouldnt he suspect that jedi still exist and that they would naturally join forces with the alliance if any where alive? do you consider him a complete ass?

You're contradicting yourself, no offense.

Before you stated that Vader's comment had to do with respecting his beliefs in the force, or something along those lines, earlier in this thread.

I just find it very hard to interpert Vader as talking about a force sensitive pilot blowing up the death star in that scene.

when did i say that was the only reason for his comment? i didnt.

he was stating that they should be cautious of possible jedi/force users. i suggested that in doing so, he was also reminding them of his own value.

either you are just having fun now or you need to work on your communication skills. perhaps both.

Originally posted by focus4chumps
when did i say that was the only reason for his comment? i didnt.

he was stating that they should be cautious of possible jedi/force users. i suggested that in doing so, he was also reminding them of his own value.

either you are just having fun now or you need to work on your communication skills. perhaps both.

Here are some TFN comments that supported my earlier position about Emperor Vader and the death star.

"I honestly think no. He doesn't seem too impressed with the original. And then there's the untold powers that he and Luke could have wielded together; we know from the EU that two Sith working together can do devastatingly powerful things with the Force. Who needs a Death Star when you can create storms powerful enough to destroy worlds?"

"I admit I forgot about Vader's spiel in ANH about the Death Star. How else would he have come down hard on a planet though? Vader not in the suit would be extremely powerful but Palpatine hasn't had the time to train him in destructive force storms yet. Maybe Palpatine had books lying around but they would be under heavy guard."

"I always thought that Vader looked at the Death Star as overkill...sort of the coward's way out of things. You could tell in A New Hope that he had a genuine disdain for Tarkin's toy.", which that user supported by stating that Vader said this, ""Don't be too proud of this technological terror you've constructed. The ability to destroy a planet is insignificant next to the power of the Force.", and then "Well, technically, he never used it - that was Tarkin and the Emperor all the way."

Vader never used the death star, they claim, Tarkin ordered Alderaan to be destroyed, not Vader, Vader could have used force storms to get the same effect, and other things such as the death star being overkill, a coward's way out, and him having a "geniune disdain for tarkin's toy", and that "he wasn't too impressed with the death star and he made a spiel about it".

My response would be this. The TFN-ers were absolutley correct. Vader never ordered alderaan to be destroyed, that was a part of tarkin and the emperor's plan.

IMO, he was referring to the Force overall; both saying "your toy isn't the baddest on the block and it can be broken", then illustrating the power of the Force himself.

He'd definitely be aware that at least Obi Wan and Yoda survived Order 66; who the hell knows what they could have been doing with their time. He'd have no way of knowing they chose to live like bums instead of training a new batch of Jedi in secret.

Originally posted by Robtard
IMO, he was referring to the Force overall; both saying "your toy isn't the baddest on the block and it can be broken", then illustrating the power of the Force himself.

He'd definitely be aware that at least Obi Wan and Yoda survived Order 66; who the hell know what they could have been doing with their time. He'd have no way of knowing they choose to live like bums instead of training a new batch of Jedi in secret.

I don't think the EU concepts of Force storms and destroying worlds existed at the time of Lucas writing ANH.

The Force could give people an afterlife (but I don't think Vader knew about that just yet, he found out later on in ROTJ), but other than that, Force powers were no match for the death star blowing up planets. Vader was absolutley wrong.

Originally posted by PhoenixSam5
I just find it very hard to interpert Vader as talking about a force sensitive pilot blowing up the death star in that scene.

That "force sensitive pilot scene" occurs after his comment and subsequent choking to and of Motti.

Originally posted by Robtard
He'd definitely be aware that at least Obi Wan and Yoda survived Order 66; who the hell knows what they could have been doing with their time. He'd have no way of knowing they chose to live like bums instead of training a new batch of Jedi in secret.

I suspect that George always intended for Sidious to be acutely aware of the continued existence of at least those two Jedi. Obi Wan and Yoda were both in hiding when the OT starts. There was also a Jedi Purge...so...it is obvious that Sidious feared an uprising.

Here's where I was going with this: I suspect that George intended for Sidious to suspect that at least Obi Wan and Yoda were somewhat involved with the Rebel uprising.

Originally posted by Robtard
IMO, he was referring to the Force overall; both saying "your toy isn't the baddest on the block and it can be broken"

the implication is that vader would not use the death star if he killed palps in ep3. there is no evidence of this either way. its a ridiculous venture into self-gratifying pontification with no evidence.

Originally posted by Robtard
He'd definitely be aware that at least Obi Wan and Yoda survived Order 66; who the hell knows what they could have been doing with their time. He'd have no way of knowing they chose to live like bums instead of training a new batch of Jedi in secret.

THAAAAAAAAAAAANK YOU

Originally posted by dadudemon
That "force sensitive pilot scene" occurs after his comment and subsequent chocking to and of Motti.

Luke was the force sensitive pilot that ultimately destroyed the death star by using the Force.

But it's not really general consensus among star wars fans that that paticular scene was foreshadowing Luke's future destruction of the death star, or even referencing force sensitive pilots.

That's fanon! 😛

Originally posted by PhoenixSam5
Luke was the force sensitive pilot that ultimately destroyed the death star by using the Force.

But it's not really general consensus among star wars fans that that paticular scene was foreshadowing Luke's future destruction of the death star, or even referencing force sensitive pilots.

That's fanon! 😛

Huh?

I mean.....what?

Go back and read the conversation. "...that scene..." refers to Vader's comment to Motti.

"...that scene..." also occurs before Vader's other comment about the force being strong "...with this one."

Originally posted by focus4chumps
its a ridiculous venture into self-gratifying pontification with no evidence.

Really, dude? 😬

I think you're getting a bit carried away, here.

Originally posted by focus4chumps
******DONNIE!!! LIFE DOESNT STOP AND START AT YOUR CONVENIENCE!!!!

the implication is that vader would not use the death star if he killed palps in ep3. there is no evidence of this either way. its a ridiculous venture into self-gratifying pontification with no evidence.

THAAAAAAAAAAAANK YOU

There is no evidence that Vader viewed the death star as a wonderful toy, and you still didn't rebut the TFN specific quotes.

For example, Vader did not order Tarkin to blow up Alderaan, he mostly seemed on the neutral side about that one. If not for Tarkin and/or the Emperor, Alderaan would have survived. Vader played no influence in their decision to blow up planets with the death star.

I can't really say either way about in ROTJ, because Vader was just following the Emperor's orders by using the death star.

And thus, the ROTS Emperor Vader probably wouldn't use the death star, based on evidence from the original star wars movies!

Maybe Vader meant that the Force could destroy planets on a much larger level with Force Storms, therey negating the death star's abilities.

look, if you need to believe that vader was a complete buffoon to enjoy the saga, i will be the last to try to take that away from you.

Originally posted by dadudemon
Huh?

I mean.....what?

Go back and read the conversation. "...that scene..." refers to Vader's comment to Motti.

"...that scene..." also occurs before Vader's other comment about the force being strong "...with this one."

I mean that my discussion with you guys was the first time I heard that fan-theory come across. I never heard a star wars fan say that before.

Originally posted by focus4chumps
look, if you need to believe that vader was a complete buffoon to enjoy the saga, i will be the last to try to take that away from you.

You didn't even reply to my previous quotes and refute them.

It's very obvious that Vader never really ordered alderaan's destruction, he just always gets blamed for that among the fans.

Originally posted by focus4chumps
the implication is that vader would not use the death star if he killed palps in ep3. there is no evidence of this either way. its a ridiculous venture into self-gratifying pontification with no evidence.

Originally posted by dadudemon

Really, dude? 😬

I think you're getting a bit carried away, here.

perhaps you missed it then:

Originally posted by PhoenixSam5
Here are some TFN comments that supported my earlier position about Emperor Vader and the death star.

"I honestly think no. He doesn't seem too impressed with the original. And then there's the untold powers that he and Luke could have wielded together; we know from the EU that two Sith working together can do devastatingly powerful things with the Force. Who needs a Death Star when you can create storms powerful enough to destroy worlds?"

"I admit I forgot about Vader's spiel in ANH about the Death Star. How else would he have come down hard on a planet though? Vader not in the suit would be extremely powerful but Palpatine hasn't had the time to train him in destructive force storms yet. Maybe Palpatine had books lying around but they would be under heavy guard."

"I always thought that Vader looked at the Death Star as overkill...sort of the coward's way out of things. You could tell in A New Hope that he had a genuine disdain for Tarkin's toy.", which that user supported by stating that Vader said this, ""Don't be too proud of this technological terror you've constructed. The ability to destroy a planet is insignificant next to the power of the Force.", and then "Well, technically, he never used it - that was Tarkin and the Emperor all the way."

Vader never used the death star, they claim, Tarkin ordered Alderaan to be destroyed, not Vader, Vader could have used force storms to get the same effect, and other things such as the death star being overkill, a coward's way out, and him having a "geniune disdain for tarkin's toy", and that "he wasn't too impressed with the death star and he made a spiel about it".

My response would be this. The TFN-ers were absolutley correct. Vader never ordered alderaan to be destroyed, that was a part of tarkin and the emperor's plan.

😐

If Anakin became the emperor I imagine he would finish the construction on the Death star and use it as a fear tactic toward his enemies and means to make those looking to him for leadership and protection feel protected. Something to possibly make up for his lack of political experience. Also a means to keep those who would seek to undermine his rule in line (or so he might think) not something to really 'use'. At the point he became a sith and before he seemed to have the idea overwhelming power was the only way to keep peace and protect what mattered to him and the death star is overwhelming power.
Blow up a separatist planet as a show of power (under some pretense) and call it a day. Probably live on the damn thing like a giant mobile home.

Originally posted by SevenShackles
If Anakin became the emperor I imagine he would finish the construction on the Death star and use it as a fear tactic toward his enemies and means to make those looking to him for leadership and protection feel protected. Something to possibly make up for his lack of political experience. Also a means to keep those who would seek to undermine his rule in line (or so he might think) not something to really 'use'. At the point he became a sith and before he seemed to have the idea overwhelming power was the only way to keep peace and protect what mattered to him and the death star is overwhelming power.
Blow up a separatist planet as a show of power (under some pretense) and call it a day. Probably live on the damn thing like a giant mobile home.

Yeah, he wasn't against using technology when it was useful. He loved his star destroyers and he was all about being a pilot.

I'm not so sure what Vader thought of Tarkin and/or the tarkin doctrine, however.

I'm creating an original trilogy thread about the OT Vader becoming the Emperor too. This one is just as interetstng, is not more interesting, because a Vader without the suit being the emperor? AWESOME!

I'm not sure if Emperor Vader would destroy alderaan or not, maybe he would destroy a different but similar planet, but he definitley would destroy a seperatist planet.

The empire blowing up alderaan in ANH was a fear tactic to keep the imperial citizens in line (sorta like how Joseph Stalin was a very overtly parnaoid leader that killed millions of his own citizens out of an insanely paranoid fear of dissession, even if they were law abiding people). Maybe it was also to gain followers that valued strength and brute force in the Empire.

I don't think they blew up planets with the death star just for the hell of it. But maybe it made some of their citizens feel safer? How so? IDK, this is all just specualtion and fan theories.

As the forcebook.com emperor vader article and other star wars forums have all stated, Anakin had barely any political charisma, power, or experience at all. How could he hold together an Empire, especially and mainly so young and in-experienced in ROTS?

Suppose he killed Palpatine in ROTS, he would be viewed as a coup and a traitor,, and why would anybody look up to him as a ruler? He wasn't the charismatic and politically savvy space Hitler that his master Palpatine was.

Palpatine lived on Coruscant. Vader wouldn't actually live on the death star, he had his own private castle like a sterotypical evil king.

Is there any evidence that Vader respected Tarkin and the tarkin doctrine, or not?

well he was the only one besides the emperor to refer to him as "my friend", if that means anything.

When did the Emperor ever talk to Tarkin?