The next to die....

Originally posted by -Pr-
You didn't like Morrison's one?

Whedon's one was similar to Simonsen's one, just a little darker, and Simonsen wrote him two decades ago.

They were developing him though; that was the point. They were changing him while still keeping him faithful, and it was working. Turning him in to Magneto basically means that it isn't Cyclops anymore, at least, it's not the same guy.

meh, morrison made him complex and layered alright, sure he wasnt boring, but there was this weakness to his fiber that didn't sit well with me. of course everybody is vulnerable and limited, but the way he couldnt face the collapse of his marriage head on and instead fled to a fantasy world with emma, (initially) using her to escape his reality sucked. While I did prefer his later relationship with emma over his thing with jean, that horrible last arc with WPOTC being the one to recandle his will to live as if he couldn't find it in him to keep pushing ahead for the world he wanted cemented his portrayal as a pussy.

well, he isnt magneto though. I see him doing his own thing, branching out of his experiences and forging a new path for mutant radical struggle for self-determination. let's see what bendis makes of it, but gilleon's portrayal during avx consequences was excellent. I also see one of his core personality traits surviving intact: his tenacity. while he did get depressed to the brink of matyrdom by wolverine, he still found his motivation to live and fight in helping mutants. he felt empty and exhausted, but bounced back to defend his dream.

Originally posted by 753
meh, morrison made him complex and layered alright, sure he wasnt boring, but there was this weakness to his fiber that didn't sit well with me. of course everybody is vulnerable and limited, but the way he couldnt face the collapse of his marriage head on and instead fled to a fantasy world with emma, (initially) using her to escape his reality sucked. While I did prefer his later relationship with emma over his thing with jean, that horrible last arc with WPOTC being the one to recandle his will to live as if he couldn't find it in him to keep pushing ahead for the world he wanted cemented his portrayal as a pussy.

well, he isnt magneto though. I see him doing his own thing, branching out of his experiences and forging a new path for mutant radical struggle for self-determination. let's see what bendis makes of it, but gilleon's portrayal during avx consequences was excellent. I also see one of his core personality traits surviving intact: his tenacity. while he did get depressed to the brink of matyrdom by wolverine, he still found his motivation to live and fight in helping mutants. he felt empty and exhausted, but bounced back to defend his dream.

it was a precedent set in earlier runs; it wasn't like Morrison plucked it out of the blue. That, and what Apocalypse had done to him had shattered most of his ideas about the world.

That, and Jean was a **** during that run.

I disagree about his will to live. He had a will to live, just not to be an X-Man anymore, which is understandable. Even back in the Jim Lee days, it was stated that people were amazed that after all he'd been through, he was still getting up in the morning and doing his job.

AVX consequences was a real mixed bag for me. Gillen is a great writer, but if he's not Magneto, then he's something worse, and you can feel editorial pushing on him with that.

Originally posted by -Pr-
it was a precedent set in earlier runs; it wasn't like Morrison plucked it out of the blue. That, and what Apocalypse had done to him had shattered most of his ideas about the world.

That, and Jean was a **** during that run.

I disagree about his will to live. He had a will to live, just not to be an X-Man anymore, which is understandable. Even back in the Jim Lee days, it was stated that people were amazed that after all he'd been through, he was still getting up in the morning and doing his job.

AVX consequences was a real mixed bag for me. Gillen is a great writer, but if he's not Magneto, then he's something worse, and you can feel editorial pushing on him with that. [/B]

I also like the way wolverine and him have crossed paths adn everythign that has led them there.

Originally posted by 753
i still expected better.

right, it was his will to fight for the dream. thats what I meant, but that was so ingrained in him it could be an extension of his will to live. getting up no matter what to do his job was a mark of his. his tenacity was his best heroic trait.

I don't know... maybe the existence of a more radical group of x-men can be maintained in the long run without degenrating into cartoonish supervillany. I like that the x-men have assimilated the ideological divide instead of being one half of it. maybe now the radical wing can grow past cartoonish supervillany and into something closer to the huey, malcolm x and che guevara figures that (we're told) inspired them. besides, so far cyke has courted the human media and extended support and protection to human simpathizers, he lacks that deepseated segregationist resentment magnus had. being free from phoenix influence he hasn't killed anybody in his rescue operations either.

I also like the way wolverine and him have crossed paths adn everythign that has led them there.

Better how? Genuinely curious.

And he lost it, which I can understand. I'm not saying that it was a perfect arc or anything, but I thought it did the job. Everyone has a breaking point, and his was brought about by everything piling on top of him. Besides, he got over it anyway.

I think he's doing better now than he was doing during AVX and before it, which imo was a ****ing atrocious mess. Bendis hasn't turned it in to a cluster**** just yet.

come forward and end it with jean or at least ell her about it all.

he did, but because JG worked her phoenix on him. that's what I can't stand about that arc (well, that and the general silliness of sublime and everything else)

Originally posted by Sin I AM
cyclops definately, id like to see hulk off-world for awhile...i deeply enjoyed planet hulk. Thor need to raise his status and remain aloof from midgard. He need to ditch the avengers completely for the sake of the character.

Lol...of course you would say that.

Originally posted by 753
come forward and end it with jean or at least ell her about it all.

he did, but because JG worked her phoenix on him. that's what I can't stand about that arc (well, that and the general silliness of sublime and everything else)

That was the issue. He and Jean were drifting apart and, quite believably imo, they just weren't able to talk the way they used to.

I don't think she had that much of an effect on him. She nudged him in the right direction, but I don't think, say, his relationship with Emma or his growth under Whedon, can be attributed to Jean.

Originally posted by carver9
Lol...of course you would say that.

You don't have to be snippy with people.

Originally posted by -Pr-
That was the issue. He and Jean were drifting apart and, quite believably imo, they just weren't able to talk the way they used to.

I don't think she had that much of an effect on him. She nudged him in the right direction, but I don't think, say, his relationship with Emma or his growth under Whedon, can be attributed to Jean.

You don't have to be snippy with people.

I dont think she was responsible for the rest of his development either.

Originally posted by 753
after everything they went through together and the average portrayal of his character, that wasn't good enough.

I dont think she was responsible for the rest of his development either.

Why not? His world had been utterly demolished by what Apocalypse had done to him. Then his wife wasn't reaching out to him at the same time he wasn't reaching out to her, so he had nobody to turn to. Then he turned to Emma, and the confusion over his feelings, and the guilt about what had happened with her only added to it. Then, after all that, Jean goes and dies, and Scott is expected to lead the X-Men while Xavier ****s off to sun himself. I honestly felt it was consistent.

👆

Originally posted by -Pr-
Why not? His world had been utterly demolished by what Apocalypse had done to him. Then his wife wasn't reaching out to him at the same time he wasn't reaching out to her, so he had nobody to turn to. Then he turned to Emma, and the confusion over his feelings, and the guilt about what had happened with her only added to it. Then, after all that, Jean goes and dies, and Scott is expected to lead the X-Men while Xavier ****s off to sun himself. I honestly felt it was consistent.

👆

Originally posted by 753
I was refering to him not coming clean with her in the first place. he did have someone to turn to, even if it was difficult, he could have faced it instead of fleeing. he's pushed through a lot in the past too.

I don't think he could have done it this time, though. He was feeling ashamed of himself on a level he'd never felt before, and as well as that, Jean had her own shit to deal with, with running the school and the fact that she was starting to Phoenix up again.

I think it's more than understandable that Cyclops might have felt like his problems weren't something he wanted to bring up, either because he was ashamed, or simply because he felt like she didn't need that pressure on top of her.

Him taking the emotional pain rather than saddling her with it, I think, is in character for him. It goes back to the whole Madelyne thing and the run in X-Factor, imo.

Originally posted by -Pr-
It goes against half a century of character development.

I think Scott should either kill or banish Magneto from his team, he needs to step out as his own man...

Arcade needs to die along with Avengers Arena, its painfully terrible..

Originally posted by pym-ftw
I think Scott should either kill or banish Magneto from his team, he needs to step out as his own man...

Arcade needs to die along with Avengers Arena, its painfully terrible..

Oh hows avengers arena going? I was interested in it since I been waiting for that girl from annihilation to show up again. Haven't gotten a chance to buy any yet.

Originally posted by SevenShackles
No no no. Scott can't be responsible for killing both professor X AND Magneto, that's just Way too much. Other than that I agree magneto needs to leave his team and never return. He needs to make this new 'revolutionary' persona his own. Honestly with the x-men being absorbed into the 'avengers' the way they were cyclops's team are the only team of x-men that (in my opinion) feel like an older version of the team.. Get to a place that needs help, do all you can, save a mutant and leave before cops/sentinels/bad guys/whoever might make things worse shows up. Kinda tired of the genocide crap, let's get back to simply being hated and misunderstood outlaws.

Oh hows avengers arena going? I was interested in it since I been waiting for that girl from annihilation to show up again. Haven't gotten a chance to buy any yet.

Cyke is either
A: Turn into a Avenger villian, because the xmen are so low on members that Wolverine has to run triple duty

Or

B: just be a wasted character arch, and we can all wait for AvX to be retconned away

Originally posted by Mindset
People change, Pr, geez.

They do change, but only to a point. Imagine if you woke up one day and weren't a rapist anymore. That would be pretty drastic, no?