Originally posted by Ascendancy
We already debated this: the nukes do not do any significant damage to the machines. They already survived a nuclear war with humanity, a war pushed to the point of causing nuclear winter. They just aren't going to get it done.
Winning the war doesn't mean nukes can't hurt the machines. The Japanese "survived" a nuclear attack, are they immune?
Originally posted by quanchi112
No one said that they are immune to nukes but nukes clearly didn't defeat them. That's the point.
That is circumstantial.
And indeed it has been said:
Originally posted by Ascendancy
We already debated this: the nukes do not do any significant damage to the machines.
It is not that it doesn't do damage, of course it would, it is that it would have been incredibly difficult for humans to destroy an AI that could be virtually everywhere and anywhere at the same time unless all computers/machines in the world were destroyed. Humans are frail, comparatively weak, vulnerable and take a long time to replace, that is why they lost. Terminator 4 basically underlines the argument. Yes, the humans were able to destroy ONE Machine HQ with physical force, but they were networked across the globe, and their machines can be rebuilt and replaced, unlike humans. Likewise, that is why humans lost in the Matrix, not because nukes are not a viable tactic, but because the humans were subdued. If Machines offered no resistance and allowed humans to systematically nuke all of their bases, then they indeed would lose.
Skynet and The Matrix machines share the same advantage in having its central AI being hard to destroy. However, it would still be a war of attrition, that is, who's machines can wear out the other side quicker. More importantly, is which side can prevent or slow down the production of replacement machines. Nuking the enemy's manufacturing facilities would be a major advantage. It could even be argued that The Matrix machines could not survive if their energy source, the human batteries were nuked, they would eventually "die" out. Of course there are many other factors in play, but having a nuclear arsenal is by no means insignificant.
Originally posted by PlacidityThe nukes didn't even dent or give the humans a huge advantage in a war of attrition. You are mainly speculating here which is fine but to suggest an already tried and failed tactic gives Skynet the advantage it needs here is silly.
That is circumstantial.And indeed it has been said:
It is not that it doesn't do damage, of course it would, it is that it would have been incredibly difficult for humans to destroy an AI that could be virtually everywhere and anywhere at the same time unless all computers/machines in the world were destroyed. Humans are frail, comparatively weak, vulnerable and take a long time to replace, that is why they lost. Terminator 4 basically underlines the argument. Yes, the humans were able to destroy ONE Machine HQ with physical force, but they were networked across the globe, and their machines can be rebuilt and replaced, unlike humans. Likewise, that is why humans lost in the Matrix, not because nukes are not a viable tactic, but because the humans were subdued. If Machines offered no resistance and allowed humans to systematically nuke all of their bases, then they indeed would lose.
Skynet and The Matrix machines share the same advantage in having its central AI being hard to destroy. However, it would still be a war of attrition, that is, who's machines can wear out the other side quicker. More importantly, is which side can prevent or slow down the production of replacement machines. Nuking the enemy's manufacturing facilities would be a major advantage. It could even be argued that The Matrix machines could not survive if their energy source, the human batteries were nuked, they would eventually "die" out. Of course there are many other factors in play, but having a nuclear arsenal is by no means insignificant.
Originally posted by Ascendancy
We already debated this: the nukes do not do any significant damage to the machines. They already survived a nuclear war with humanity, a war pushed to the point of causing nuclear winter. They just aren't going to get it done.Come up with some new arguments, man, or admit defeat. You sound as bad as a certain Federal Agent in his DVZ thread.
Incorrect assumption. We clearly see the squids drop like rain to a single EMP. Saying that "nukes won't work" cos it didn't work for humanity is also a faulty argument. Humanity from the Matrix isn't fighting here, it's Skynet.
You're also ignoring that humans never nuked the human-power-cells, since they were constructed after the nuclear war as a new power-source.
You're also ignoring that Skynet is arguably smarter and more resourceful than the Matrix. One created a super advanced virtual reality. The other figured out time travel.
There's no need for new arguments, since the originals have yet to be countered, they're simply marginalized and dismissed. You're starting to sound like Quanchi with the trolly attitude.
Edit: I see Placidity covered a bit of what I said and then some more.
Originally posted by quanchi112
So being smarter is figuring out time travel only to discover it can't achieve the goal of it in the first place. That's just denial. Based on what is Skynet smarter than the Matrix ? In terms of smarter you obviously aren't looking at overall effectiveness.
😂 more downplaying.
Originally posted by quanchi112
What have I lied about ? Explain why they are smarter. debating doesn't consist of you saying they are smarter and that's it. Prove it. I have told you reasons why they are not smarter. But go ahead the floor is yours.
Opening with a strawman as I didn't call you a liar, isn't a good. Anyhow.
Your reason as to why creating time travel isn't a feat of computing genius is faulty and a downplay. The time travel technology worked, period. People (and cyborgs) went back in time. Skynet losing cos it's the villain doesn't change that time travel worked.
Originally posted by RobtardIt worked but as they later discovered could have never succeeded. I determine intelligence by rate of success. They tried something over and over again and expected different results which is the definition of insanity.
Opening with a strawman as I didn't call you a liar, isn't a good. Anyhow.Your reason as to why creating time travel isn't a feat of computing genius is faulty and a downplay. The time travel technology worked, period. People (and cyborgs) went back in time. Skynet losing cos it's the villain doesn't change that time travel worked.
Originally posted by quanchi112
It worked but as they later discovered could have never succeeded. I determine intelligence by rate of success. They tried something over and over again and expected different results which is the definition of insanity.
Might as well argue that if someone like Michio Kaku invented time travel today and went back in time to get a dinosaur egg, but failed because it was too dangerous walking around in the Cretaceous period, that his time travel experiment was a complete failure and that he's a dunce, despite the fact that he successfully traveled back in time.
Keep downplaying though.
Originally posted by RobtardThey didn't fail just once but kept trying and kept failing. We later find out it would have never worked. You applaud them for trying the same thing over and over again but ultimately failing.
Might as well argue that if someone like Michio Kaku invented time travel today and went back in time to get a dinosaur egg, but failed because it was too dangerous walking around in the Cretaceous period, that his time travel experiment was a complete failure and that he's a dunce, despite the fact that he successfully traveled back in time.Keep downplaying though.
Originally posted by quanchi112
They didn't fail just once but kept trying and kept failing. We later find out it would have never worked. You applaud them for trying the same thing over and over again but ultimately failing.
😂 Keep downplaying that the invention of successfully sending someone/something back in time worked and the computing power it would take to invent something like that. Compare that to creating a super advanced virtual reality, considering we're dabbling in VR in now.
Downplaying the side you want to see lose is all you have, you can never argue positively why the side you want to see wins.
Originally posted by Robtard
😂 Keep downplaying that the invention of successfully sending someone/something back in time worked and the computing power it would take to invent something like that. Compare that to creating a super advanced virtual reality, considering we're dabbling in VR in now.Downplaying the side you want to see lose is all you have, you can never argue positively why the side you want to see wins.
I knew this argument would eventuate. That SkyNET is more advanced because it discovered time travel tech. But that doesn't hold in this debate.
Both sides had different goals.
SkyNET: survive the humans destruction of it's AI and create machines to eliminate them. It discovered time travel and sent soldiers to kill the leaders of the human rebellion.
It failed.
Matrix: Try to gain legal acceptance amongst the human race that machine AI was intelligent enough to warrant acceptance amongst the human race. It failed and war erupted. The machines won and their new goal was to obtain spiritual awareness. What it is that makes humans human. To discover the meaning of life/awareness and expand on it.
The Matrix Universe perceives Time Travel tech as being just around the corner. Even in heavily time altered time lines where Skynet creates Terminators at a later date they still obtain the tech. In one humans have their own time travel tech.
The Terminator universe preaches a viscious cycle that no matter how you manipulate the past Skynet will always eventuate. Time Travel will be discovered and the humans will always fight back.
Time travel is a plot device and Skynet didn't do much more to make us think it could win it's war besides durable Terminators and Liquid metal warriors.
The Matrix Machines succeeded in defeating the humans whereas Skynet couldn't. Without resorting to time travel.
And considering both sides in this fight exist on the same planet. It's only a matter of time before the Matrix machines gain access to that tech anyways considering how easy it was for humans to gain access to it.
Originally posted by the ninjak
I knew this argument would eventuate. That SkyNET is more advanced because it discovered time travel tech. But that doesn't hold in this debate.Both sides had different goals.
SkyNET: survive the humans destruction of it's AI and create machines to eliminate them. It discovered time travel and sent soldiers to kill the leaders of the human rebellion.
It failed.
The T-800, T-1000 and TX failed in their missions, that doesn't discount that time travel in of itself worked, as people/things were successfully sent back in time.
Using the T-units failure to complete a mission as a means to say the invention itself is unimpressive is little more than a Red Herring. It doesn't negate that inventing time travel is arguably far above the invention a of super virtual reality, in terms of technology.
Let me ask you something, if Skynet's goal was to send Arnold back in time and rob a gun store and nothing else, would Skynet's invention of time travel be somehow more technologically impressive on that merit alone? The invention and the missions are two separate things.
Originally posted by RobtardIt didn't work. it also won't work for the same reasons here. Good attempt but it failed against sarah Connor for crying out loud.
😂 Keep downplaying that the invention of successfully sending someone/something back in time worked and the computing power it would take to invent something like that. Compare that to creating a super advanced virtual reality, considering we're dabbling in VR in now.Downplaying the side you want to see lose is all you have, you can never argue positively why the side you want to see wins.
Quit crying about me dealing you the facts. You get so emotional when your faves lose. You and saddie need a cruise or something.
Originally posted by quanchi112
It didn't work. it also won't work for the same reasons here. Good attempt but it failed against sarah Connor for crying out loud.Quit crying about me dealing you the facts. You get so emotional when your faves lose. You and saddie need a cruise or something.
Keep fishing for that red herring, Quanchi.
/derp Your butthurt is showing again; stop trying to derail the thread cos of it.
The creation of time travel and the creation of the virtual Matrix universe are both showings of great intellectual capacities by Skynet and Matrix AI, but they are applicable in different ways.
The time travel creation is more of an engineering and physics accomplishment. Applied to this war, I'd say that knowledge translates to better creation of weaponry and robotics (anything mechanical or engineering). This is proven by the diverse number of robotics Skynet has produced. I don't believe the Matrix has any substance even coming close to the living liquid metal that Skynet was able to create.
The creation of the virtual reality wherein resides the Matrix is more a show of programming and processing power. Applied to this war, I'd say the Matrix thus shows better hacking skills and software skills (smarter robots for example). The Matrix AI is capable of mimicking human emotions, something which Skynet has yet to do. I mean, the Matrix (inadvertently) created a virus that was able to download itself unto a human body. That's how vastly complex the Matrix AI is.
At least that's how I see it from these examples.
Originally posted by FrothByte
The creation of time travel and the creation of the virtual Matrix universe are both showings of great intellectual capacities by Skynet and Matrix AI, but they are applicable in different ways.The time travel creation is more of an engineering and physics accomplishment. Applied to this war, I'd say that knowledge translates to better creation of weaponry and robotics (anything mechanical or engineering). This is proven by the diverse number of robotics Skynet has produced. I don't believe the Matrix has any substance even coming close to the living liquid metal that Skynet was able to create.
The creation of the virtual reality wherein resides the Matrix is more a show of programming and processing power. Applied to this war, I'd say the Matrix thus shows better hacking skills and software skills (smarter robots for example). The Matrix AI is capable of mimicking human emotions, something which Skynet has yet to do. I mean, the Matrix (inadvertently) created a virus that was able to download itself unto a human body. That's how vastly complex the Matrix AI is.
At least that's how I see it from these examples.
That you for addressing the point (technology) and not playing silly downplay and distraction games.
Good point on the liquid metal.
Good point on the human emotions mimick and computer-to-human virus.