Bor vs Superman and Captain Marvel

Originally posted by Igniz
Bor wins this.Anyone using the example of Loki turning Bor to snow needs to read the issue.Loki himself mentions Bor will only expect a brawl and not use magic against him.So Bor was caught off guard.And if anyone is wondering why Bor couldn't reverse it, the keyword was Bor expected a brawl.Bor's knowledge of magic might have been limited since this was the time the Aesir and Vanir weren't joined together to become the Asgardians that we know of.The Vanir's were stated to be the ones will versed in magic while the Aesir's were the one's proficient in weaponized warfares.But one could say the Aeisr's at least knows a defense against magical assaults.Bor took it to Thor with the Odinforce.Thor commenting that it would have killed him if not for the Odinforce.This isn't the first time Thor with the Odinforce was put on the ropes.Thor with the Odinforce battled Surtur.And Thor was actually getting blisters just touching Surtur.And this is Surtur w/o the Twilight sword.Yet Thor is getting burned while they were grappling.And Surtur is confirmed a skyfather level being since he is capable of destroying a galaxy.

Very good points.

Originally posted by curryman
I don't anybody believes HP DD would break Thor's rib with a single punch that THOR BLOCKED.

Originally posted by Igniz
Bor wins this.Anyone using the example of Loki turning Bor to snow needs to read the issue.Loki himself mentions Bor will only expect a brawl and not use magic against him.So Bor was caught off guard.And if anyone is wondering why Bor couldn't reverse it, the keyword was Bor expected a brawl.Bor's knowledge of magic might have been limited since this was the time the Aesir and Vanir weren't joined together to become the Asgardians that we know of.The Vanir's were stated to be the ones will versed in magic while the Aesir's were the one's proficient in weaponized warfares.But one could say the Aeisr's at least knows a defense against magical assaults.Bor took it to Thor with the Odinforce.Thor commenting that it would have killed him if not for the Odinforce.This isn't the first time Thor with the Odinforce was put on the ropes.Thor with the Odinforce battled Surtur.And Thor was actually getting blisters just touching Surtur.And this is Surtur w/o the Twilight sword.Yet Thor is getting burned while they were grappling.And Surtur is confirmed a skyfather level being since he is capable of destroying a galaxy.

Not all Surtur is capable of destroying a galaxy. Just because he did it once doesn't make it his natural power level. Otherwise everytime Gladiator hits someone it's planet destroying punches. Otherwise everytime Surfer blasts someone it's with planet destroying force. I can go on and on.

And being caught off guard has nothing to do with it. Loki can easily catch Thor off guard and fail like hell to turn him into snow, same goes for any high herald or trans level being not weak to magic. Hell Odin can be sleep and Loki can't change him to snow.

Superman is a lot stronger and more durable than Thor yet HP DD breaks him up with ease. So it's fair to say Superman can take a punch or two from Bor.

ABC logic is faulty since character's flucuate in power from comic to comic and you are not considering rock paper scissors (it's how you beat B that proves you can beat C).

Lastly, you are not considering Superman's speed and freeze breath. Those alone renders this fight won on a majority scale.

I don't see how H1 get away with the stuff he does.

I read H1 post, it may be the most ironic thing I have ever read...

Originally posted by pym-ftw
I read H1 post, it may be the most ironic thing I have ever read...

Originally posted by carver9
I don't see how H1 get away with the stuff he does.

Get away with what Carv? Dissect my argument. Point out the flaws. Be specific. I'm in the ass kicking mood right now. Come at me.

The fact that you use certain people at their strongest and anything else that goes against your argument, you call it PIS or a low showing. You have no rights to determine whats legit or not. Accept the fts and move on.

Originally posted by carver9
The fact that you use certain people at their strongest and anything else that goes against your argument, you call it PIS or a low showing. You have not rights to determine what legit or not. Accept the fts and move on.

Surtur destroyed a galaxy once in his existence and yet it's a phucking standard? Please. If Superman did have only 1 feat then I would not use it as a standard. If Surtur destroyed galaxies on a regular basis (or it wasn't a one time thing) then I would agree.

Also you are not understanding that the shift of power was made a long time ago. Skyfathers are no longer galaxy busters. Galactus level beings are.

You always use Gladiator planet busting ft so what are you talking about?

Originally posted by carver9
You always use Gladiator planet busting ft so what are you talking about?

You have to understand people's slick arguments Carv.
igniz implied that since Surtur once destroyed a galaxy then everytime someone matches him in a comic then they must be also galaxy strong (by ABC logic). Or better yet, everytime we see Surtur in a comic then he is automatically operating at galaxy busting power. Thus any character that matches him is also a galaxy buster, no matter what. Do you see the problem?

Originally posted by h1a8

Also you are not understanding that the shift of power was made a long time ago. Skyfathers are no longer galaxy busters. Galactus level beings are.

Since when? When did this shift take place? I was under the impression it was like any other tier and simply the power simply varied from skyfather to skyfather.

Also Surtur not consistently busting galaxies is a point to make but your saying it as if it's concrete evidence that that feat was some sort of peak and not within his ability to do again. As far as iv seen even when portrayed as threats characters on that level hardly perform such feats more than once or twice. Make verbal threats or have statements of their ability to do so mentioned sure but outside of Galactus (the planet eating plot device) and the anti monitor (you know what he did) hardly really do what were told is well within their ability to do so.

Originally posted by SevenShackles
Since when? When did this shift take place? I was under the impression it was like any other tier and simply the power simply varied from skyfather to skyfather.

Also Surtur not consistently busting galaxies is a point to make but your saying it as if it's concrete evidence that that feat was some sort of peak and not within his ability to do again. As far as iv seen even when portrayed as threats characters on that level hardly perform such feats more than once or twice. Make verbal threats or have statements of their ability to do so mentioned sure but outside of Galactus (the planet eating plot device) and the anti monitor (you know what he did) hardly really do what were told is well within their ability to do so.

Originally posted by h1a8
Superman has strengh feats that are greater than destroying a planet with a single blow. Also based off durability feats I believe Superman and Marvel could have taken that punch without getting killed as well. I believe HP DD can break OF Thor ribs with a punch as well. All high heralds aren't created equal my friend.

The biggest problem with your argument is:
"Boards don't hit back."

Superman and Marvel have speed on their side and can, if they really wanted to, avoid any of Bor's attacks while pummeling him. At the very least they can hit Bor many times before Bor even lands a hit. Superman also has a healing factor (just in case he's hit).

Superman, fighting intelligently, can beat Bor solo. He can utilize his speed, strength, mobility, and freeze breath well to gain the advantage. Superman, at times can even vibrate through attacks. On paper Superman would win, and in a comic, Superman could win. Marvel isn't needed here.

Originally posted by Starscream M
I won't stand in a corner. Wattya gonna do bout it?

A banning sounds about right.

Originally posted by pym-ftw
Went back a whole page...
Proved
😂
Checkmate

"Strength feats" is plural,
Surtur destroying a galaxy is singular.
Remember in my last post I said if Surtur did stuff like that more often (not a one time thing) then there would be no problem with it.

Also you failed to understand my point.
It's faulty to say that since character A has destroyed a galaxy and character B has matched them in another appearance then character B has the power of destroying a galaxy too.

For example, I can say that since Gladiator once destroyed a planet and yet Colossus matched him then Colossus can also destroy a planet as well. See the faultiness?

Originally posted by h1a8
"Strength feats" is plural,
Surtur destroying a galaxy is singular.
Remember in my last post I said if Surtur did stuff like that more often (not a one time thing) then there would be no problem with it.

Also you failed to understand my point.
It's faulty to say that since character A has destroyed a galaxy and character B has matched them in another appearance then character B has the power of destroying a galaxy too.

For example, I can say that since Gladiator once destroyed a planet and yet Colossus matched him then Colossus can also destroy a planet as well. See the faultiness?

In the "Everything Burns" arc, after Thor destroyed Surtur's body, the fire that poured out of him was enough to burn "all of reality".

In the issue it was stated by Thor that "all of the fire of creation had been released when i killed Surtur".Everything that burned was burning with the very [essence] of him and his infernal forge (the same forge he used to create the twilight sword and destroy Beta Ray Bill's galaxy). The fire that clears the slate and allows for new growth". Thor needed someone to harness that all that power and the only person that could him with it was Odin".

Surtur's depiction as a high sky father capable of destroying galaxies has been pretty consistent over his limited appearances over the years.

Besides, if Surtur has done it before and that incident is integral to Beta Ray Bill's origin, there's no way to waive it away.

Originally posted by deathlife
In the "Everything Burns" arc, after Thor destroyed Surtur's body, the fire that poured out of him was enough to burn "all of reality".

In the issue it was stated by Thor that "all of the fire of creation had been released when i killed Surtur".Everything that burned was burning with the very [essence] of him and his infernal forge (the same forge he used to create the twilight sword and destroy Beta Ray Bill's galaxy). The fire that clears the slate and allows for new growth". Thor needed someone to harness that all that power and the only person that could him with it was Odin".

Surtur's depiction as a high sky father capable of destroying galaxies has been pretty consistent over his limited appearances over the years.

Besides, if Surtur has done it before and that incident is integral to Beta Ray Bill's origin, there's no way to waive it away.

That's not the point. Surtur has fought plenty of times in comics and has had plenty of appearances. He wasn't always using galaxy busting force. He busted a galaxy once, that's it.

My point is that if a character shown a feat in comics then that doesn't mean everytime we see them in a comic they are operating at that level. Otherwise that would open Pandora's box and lead to many absurdities.

It is faulty to use the logic,
"Since Surtur is capable of destroying Galaxies and X character matched him then X character is also capable of destroying Galaxies." I can use that same argument for anyone I want and create absurdities everywhere.

Do you see?

Originally posted by h1a8
I'm not claiming that Surtur isn't a skyfather level being.

That's not the point. Surtur has fought plenty of times in comics and has had plenty of appearances. He wasn't always using galaxy busting force. He busted a galaxy once, that's it.

My point is that if a character shown a feat in comics then that doesn't mean everytime we see them in a comic they are operating at that level. Otherwise that would open Pandora's box and lead to many absurdities.

It is faulty to use the logic,
"Since Surtur is capable of destroying Galaxies and X character matched him then X character is also capable of destroying Galaxies." I can use that same argument for anyone I want and create absurdities everywhere.

Do you see?

Well I understand what your trying to say but what I think has gotten obscured here is your point of bringing this up in this thread. It's quickly turned into ppl simply seeing you rambling insanity at a sky father...soo.. Could you please tell me how this point of 'A beating B doesn't make A = B' holds meaning here in this thread? (perhaps we can get things back on track since you have explained the mechanic to your point)

Originally posted by SevenShackles
Well I understand what your trying to say but what I think has gotten obscured here is your point of bringing this up in this thread. It's quickly turned into ppl simply seeing you rambling insanity at a sky father...soo.. Could you please tell me how this point of 'A beating B doesn't make A = B' holds meaning here in this thread? (perhaps we can get things back on track since you have explained the mechanic to your point)

Carver then said, that I'm contradicting myself because I use the highest showings but not allowing another to do the same. Carver clearly misunderstood my point as I wasn't suggesting that you can't use a characters highest showings in a forum but rather I was suggesting that everytime you see a character IN A COMIC doesn't mean they are operating at a their highest levels.

Then different posters started misconstruing the argument into something slightly different. I was just rolling with the punches from all angles and it started to appear as rambling.

Originally posted by Igniz
Bor wins this.Anyone using the example of Loki turning Bor to snow needs to read the issue.Loki himself mentions Bor will only expect a brawl and not use magic against him.So Bor was caught off guard.And if anyone is wondering why Bor couldn't reverse it, the keyword was Bor expected a brawl.Bor's knowledge of magic might have been limited since this was the time the Aesir and Vanir weren't joined together to become the Asgardians that we know of.The Vanir's were stated to be the ones will versed in magic while the Aesir's were the one's proficient in weaponized warfares. But one could say the Aeisr's at least knows a defense against magical assaults. Bor took it to Thor with the Odinforce.Thor commenting that it would have killed him if not for the Odinforce.This isn't the first time Thor with the Odinforce was put on the ropes.Thor with the Odinforce battled Surtur.And Thor was actually getting blisters just touching Surtur.And this is Surtur w/o the Twilight sword.Yet Thor was getting burned while they were grappling. And Surtur is confirmed a skyfather level being since he is capable of destroying a galaxy.

Good post !!