Originally posted by Branlor Swift
He didn't put any effort into it.
Yes, he didn't look pathetic scrambling to find spells to counteract Warlock toying with him. In a 'fight' where he had all his artifacts unlike a VS thread. All he ended up doing was reversing what Warlock already did to him. That's not a stalemate.
What a way to downplay the feat Bran, seriously. 😐:
You started out saying Doc got embarrassed which borderlines on flat out lying. Although Warlock didn't go "all out", what happened on panel suggests Adam was certainly not lackadaisical in his effort.
From the onset, Adam's attitude towards Doc is to "SMASH YOU IF I MUST!"
He's pretty pissed here after failing to rape Doc with the mind gem. It is now the 3rd gem rendered ineffective.
Doc earns a momentary stalemate against the power gem. During this period, Doc takes control of the soul gem sand uses it against him. Once again, Adam is not pleased.
^ Narration even states Adam has said no many times this day, reflecting on the number of times the gems were countered. It should be pretty clear now a degree of effort was put forth.
Originally posted by Branlor Swift
Lowballed ? The thing isn't even relevant to VS threads in the first place. Plus, it's not like I'm the one who said he stood up to the IG (no context needed), and beat Mantis in h2h who nerve pinched Thanos...
He stood up to the IG like what was said by another poster. The context behind that feat should be common knowledge. No one is trying to overhype the feat but you sure did downplay it by saying he was first embarrassed then pathetic in his attempt.
Originally posted by Branlor Swift
What is the context of what I said then? I specifically mentioned him losing to Dr Doom when Dr Doom was making a huge ploy for power, getting knocked out by FrankenSurfer when he had deflective shields up, and him getting KO'ed after using UNBREAKABLE bands. Because apparently that isn't serious enough for you.
You got to be joking right? Doc made a fool out of Doom with the Crimson Bands then shielded him against Mephisto. Doc freed Doom's mothers soul from inside the shield, Doom was basically a bystander. You are quick to point out PIS filled ending of that Frankersurfer story but "mysteriously" forget that this WAS the power cosmic from a Surfer duplicate that was repelled/recoiled and shielded against earlier. The bands have restrained Doom, Juggernaut, and Hulk so I don't really see the need to pick on that but you gotta pick on something I suppose. That was the Rings of Randor btw.
Originally posted by Branlor Swift
If I'm lowballing, then it'd be pretty easy for you to mention the times Dr Strange easily beat herald level beings wouldn't it like your original proposition?If Dr Strange wasn't so easily knocked out, and his shields prone to fail? He'd still be Surfer level.
Now, I'd love for you to back up your original statement, and maybe provide some examples of Strange easily beating herald level beings. Deflection doesn't answer the question.
Strange doesn't have notable fights against heralds. That's why I asked you. Instead, you lowball away and choose the worst examples imaginable. Trying real hard to discredit the shields huh? Lol at you saying "shields prone to fail". No, they are "prone" to shield consistently against skyfather level Doramammu.
Anyone can sit and single out low feats to exploit any character. Im not going that route. Its unnecessary. The lows you pointed out (including ones from the past) are really illegitimate considering context. I want to know if you believe a serious Strange has the power to win consistently against any herald.
What we do know is he has enough power to knock Thanos and Surfer on their ass with a gesture.
^ In a room with Drax, Thor, Hulk, and Doom, who is called upon by Adam to break up that skirmish? Firelord couldn't do it but Doc did it easily. Ponder that when you think about my question.
Originally posted by leonidas
^lol i think between the 2 of us over the last couple years we've pretty much at one time or another busted every dr strange myth that's been raised in the forum. yet....i still see the same old stuff,
Rest assured, when I speak on Strange there are no myths involved. As far as this "busted" list goes, I've never been a part of that.
Originally posted by Sundipped
What a way to downplay the feat Bran, seriously. 😐:
You started out saying Doc got embarrassed which borderlines on flat out lying. Although Warlock didn't go "all out", what happened on panel suggests Adam was certainly not lackadaisical in his effort.From the onset, Adam's attitude towards Doc is to [B]"SMASH YOU IF I MUST!"
He's pretty pissed here after failing to rape Doc with the mind gem. It is now the 3rd gem rendered ineffective.
Doc earns a momentary stalemate against the power gem. During this period, Doc takes control of the soul gem sand uses it against him. Once again, Adam is not pleased.
^ Narration even states Adam has said no many times this day, reflecting on the number of times the gems were countered. It should be pretty clear now a degree of effort was put forth. [/B]
Headshots are the way to show how much trouble that battle was.
Embarrassing, pathetic, either word works fine.
What Warlock did to Strange was 'give him a taste of the time gem to convince him of his folly' to show him a glimpse of what would happen if Warlock didn't follow through, sent him really far away from the battlefield, distorted everyone's senses, showed him him still being a doctor, and tried to blast him once that missed.
The only time he actually got mad was with the Power Gem because Strange kept trying to prove him wrong.
All Warlock did was try and get Strange not to fight him. He didn't try and turn his brain off, warp him into paste, teleported him into a sun, actually hit him with a blast, or try to suck his soul. He tried to sway him from not fighting. And Strange needed every artifact to combat that. What is that if not pathetic? Hell, everything he had with every artifact literally bounced off his wrist.
What was so impressive about this fight again? Strange stating 3 times that Warlock was going to kill him?
Originally posted by SundippedThe IG fight is a non feat.
He stood up to the IG like what was said by another poster. The context behind that feat should be common knowledge. No one is trying to overhype the feat but you sure did downplay it by saying he was first embarrassed then pathetic in his attempt.
And he looked bad doing it. That's not downplaying, that's calling it as it is.
Had it not been brought up as the ultimo feat for Strange there'd be no reason to talk about it.
Originally posted by SundippedBecause that was clearly what I was talking about. When Doom was a complete noob in magic...
You got to be joking right? Doc made a fool out of Doom with the Crimson Bands then shielded him against Mephisto. Doc freed Doom's mothers soul from inside the shield, Doom was basically a bystander. You are quick to point out PIS filled ending of that Frankersurfer story but "mysteriously" forget that this WAS the power cosmic from a Surfer duplicate that was repelled/recoiled and shielded against earlier. The bands have restrained Doom, Juggernaut, and Hulk so I don't really see the need to pick on that but you gotta pick on something I suppose. That was the Rings of Randor btw.
But here is Strange's completely not serious Bands of Cy against a more experienced Doom.
Originally posted by Galan007
👆Some of the more noteworthy feats:
-Tracking characters across the globe by their auras alone.
-Casually busting through Strange's Crimson Bands of Cyttorak.
-Armor that adapts to attacks used against it.
You'll notice it was a full minute before any character was seen up again.
Yes, and as soon as the weaker FrankenSurfer got serious, he got through the shield.
Hasn't Hulk KO'ed Strange by pounding on his shields, Doom was a complete noob, Strange almost got his back broken against Juggernaut. And I'm 90 percent sure Cyttorak himself banded Juggs.
The bands of cyttorak were a third example, not the same as the FrankenSurfer. I was talking about all the times Strange got KO'ed when he used them. If you want an example, Namor would be the funniest one to use.
Originally posted by SundippedStrange has lots of fights against heralds, what are you talking about? Hell, you just talked about 4 fights in your previous paragraph.
Strange doesn't have notable fights against heralds. That's why I asked you. Instead, you lowball away and choose the worst examples imaginable. Trying real hard to discredit the shields huh? Lol at you saying "shields prone to fail". No, they are "prone" to shield consistently against skyfather level Doramammu.Anyone can sit and single out low feats to exploit any character. Im not going that route. Its unnecessary. The lows you pointed out (including ones from the past) are really illegitimate considering context. I want to know if you believe a serious Strange has the power to win consistently against any herald.
The shields have failed more times against low tiers than the times they've succeeded against high tiers. Actually, I think they've only succeeded against Dorm and Meph, and Galactus using a minuscule amount of energy...
If you want to include the past, it'd be best if you could have actually answered anything back then. What was it... "lowball, and not as bad as it is". Well no, his feats of his shield getting shattered aren't bad, but they are when most of them aren't on Hal's league.
I just said Strange can't win consistently against any herald. You deflected against trying to prove he could. And just said I was lowballing.
If you can't prove he can beat them, you probably shouldn't posture like you don't need to.
Originally posted by SundippedAnd then you realize that Strange did this while Hulk and Thor were holding Thanos, and Firelord was trying to hold Surfer.
What we do know is he has enough power to knock Thanos and Surfer on their ass with a gesture.^ In a room with Drax, Thor, Hulk, and Doom, who is called upon by Adam to break up that skirmish? Firelord couldn't do it but Doc did it easily. Ponder that when you think about my question.
http://i1084.photobucket.com/albums/j414/TheHalk/SilverSurfer059-04.jpg
"Perhaps sorcery paired with brute force might accomplish what neither could alone."
Had Thor, Hulk, and Firelord not been there you really think Strange would have been able to... knock the two down... (lol)
Spider-Man did better against a powered up Thanos in the same series.
Hell, look at what Dr Doom does with a gesture (let's ignore all the background people)
http://i1084.photobucket.com/albums/j414/TheHalk/SilverSurfer059-02.jpg
That's the same series where two Doom servants captured Dr Strange though. Same series as normal Nebula almost knocked out Dr Strange with a punch.
Originally posted by ThereIsHope
Hmmmm first WWE is loving people like Fandango over Jericho, CM Punk over the Undertaker, and zopzop is saying strange who has beat Shuma gorath is nothing but a herald level.Yup the world is going to hell in a hand basket. Strap yourselves in frolks its going to be a heck of a ride.
Barring WWE's creative choices...
You don't think Strange is a herald class being? He's certainly not above them.
facepalm
This entire post just reaks of desperation, lies and hypocrisy.
Originally posted by Branlor Swift
Headshots are the way to show how much trouble that battle was.Embarrassing, pathetic, either word works fine.
What Warlock did to Strange was 'give him a taste of the time gem to convince him of his folly' to show him a glimpse of what would happen if Warlock didn't follow through, sent him really far away from the battlefield, distorted everyone's senses, showed him him still being a doctor, and tried to blast him once that missed.
The only time he actually got mad was with the Power Gem because Strange kept trying to prove him wrong.
All Warlock did was try and get Strange not to fight him. He didn't try and turn his brain off, warp him into paste, teleported him into a sun, actually hit him with a blast, or try to suck his soul. He tried to sway him from not fighting. And Strange needed every artifact to combat that. What is that if not pathetic? Hell, everything he had with every artifact literally bounced off his wrist.
What was so impressive about this fight again? Strange stating 3 times that Warlock was going to kill him?
The IG fight is a non feat.
And he looked bad doing it. That's not downplaying, that's calling it as it is.
Had it not been brought up as the ultimo feat for Strange there'd be no reason to talk about it
Anyone with even limited common sense can see that you are desperately grasping for straws now in attempting to undermine Strange. Even after seeing the anguish on Adams face, you still insist that no effort was put out, Doc got embarrassed, looked pathetic, and the whole ordeal was a non feat. SMDH.. Adam tried every gem and failed point blank period. He flung Strange to the distant future, failed a mindphuck, bfred him to the corner of the 616 universe, warped reality around him (it's debateble if he could even warp a Strange that amped), got a stalemate with the PG, and then had the gem which he is the most intimately tied to and has the most feats with (no one else even comes close as far as feats with the SG) TURNED AGAINST HIM while it was IN HIS POSSESSION. How you see any of this is not impressive is beyond me. And Doc has survived in the core of a sun before so that wouldn't work anyway. Also, Doc only mentioned he would fail in a prolonged battle with the PG once but that doesn't change what happened for the time being on panel.
You also got the motive for Strange confronting Adam wrong. It was not because "he tried to get Strange not to fight him". This is the reason.
Adam wanted to erase such things as natural competitiveness and selfish ambition which would distort a fundamental balance. Doc challenged him and achieved his goal of making Adam realize his folly.
Originally posted by Branlor Swift
Because that was clearly what I was talking about. When Doom was a complete noob in magic...But here is Strange's completely not serious Bands of Cy against a more experienced Doom.
You'll notice it was a full minute before any character was seen up again
Now you resort to flip flopping. First you said he lost to Doom. Now Doom all of a sudden is a noob. 😂 Make up your mind. You post scans from Galan showing Strange breaking out of the bands seconds later like that's prof of anything. Doom wasn't a noob. He and Strange we're the last 2 mages left out of many who competed in that contest. And here we have Doom having to amp his armor x 10 just to match Doc's level.
Originally posted by Branlor Swift
Yes , and as soon as the weaker FrankenSurfer got serious, he got through the shield
More grasping. The plot had Doc get blasted in the back to play up to the dramatic ending of Frankensurfer murdering that old lady (trying to protect Strange) who cared for him. Now feeling guilt, Frankensurfer commits suicide. It was full of PIS and you know it.
Originally posted by Branlor Swift
Hasn't Hulk KO'ed Strange by pounding on his shields, Doom was a complete noob, Strange almost got his back broken against Juggernaut. And I'm 90 percent sure Cyttorak himself banded Juggs.
The bands of cyttorak were a third example, not the same as the FrankenSurfer. I was talking about all the times Strange got KO'ed when he used them. If you want an example, Namor would be the funniest one to use
Lies. Hulk never koed Strange. Strange has had a no name shield erected right in Mindless Hulks face and Hulk still couldn't penetrate it. After repeatedly punching it he realized it was futile and leaped off. Cyttorak cast them but Doc maintained the bond under his own strength. And this is what I mean when you nitpick feats. Namor was restrained for a page and a half by bands cast by Doc in astral form. It was explained by Strange himself that he could amplify the bondage by returning to his physical form but Namor broke free first.
^But you're the one who wants to highlight lack of context when talking about the IG feat. Oh the hypocrisy.
Originally posted by Branlor Swift
Strange has lots of fights against heralds, what are you talking about? Hell, you just talked about 4 fights in your previous paragraph.
If you think he can win easily against herald level beings, then it's not my job to prove it.The shields have failed more times against low tiers than the times they've succeeded against high tiers. Actually, I think they've only succeeded against Dorm and Meph, and Galactus using a minuscule amount of energy..
Like I said, those we're bad examples you used. I don't have to prove anything. It's not hard to see that Classic Strange has the power to compete and more often than not best a herald barring PIS/CIS if he's serious. Your cherrypicking feats doesn't change that.
If you think those are the only cases of shield resistance then think again. Or maybe it's just you purposely ignoring his history in favor of lowballing. I'll go with the later. It's obvious you want to see this differently so I'm not trying to convince you of anything.
Originally posted by Branlor Swift
If you want to include the past, it'd be best if you could have actually answered anything back then. What was it... "lowball, and not as bad as it is". Well no, his feats of his shield getting shattered aren't bad, but they are when most of them aren't on Hal's league.I just said Strange can't win consistently against any herald. You deflected against trying to prove he could. And just said I was lowballing.
If you can't prove he can beat them, you probably shouldn't posture like you don't need to
All of those past "low showings" had context behind them. Only like 3 out of that list of about 12 could really be applicable under vs forum conditions. That is in no way a bad ratio.
You give Strange no respect at all. Sure there have been feats that have been exaggerated in the past but to say he would have trouble with or can't beat a herald is just rediculous. Contrary to what you said, singling out alleged "low showings" /ignoring context won't help you prove your case.
Originally posted by Branlor Swift
And then you realize that Strange did this while Hulk and Thor were holding Thanos, and Firelord was trying to hold Surfer.http://i1084.photobucket.com/albums/j414/TheHalk/SilverSurfer059-04.jpg
"Perhaps sorcery paired with brute force might accomplish what neither could alone."
Had Thor, Hulk, and Firelord not been there you really think Strange would have been able to... knock the two down... (lol)
Spider-Man did better against a powered up Thanos in the same series.
Misinterpretation of scans. No one is holding Surfer or Thanos when Doc forcibly separated them. Firelord failed by himself. Everyone repeatedly failed before that but it was Strange who succeeded. He even bfred them to allow them to continue their scuffle.
Originally posted by Branlor Swift
He'll , look at what Dr Doom does with a gesture (let's ignore all the background people)
http://i1084.photobucket.com/albums/j414/TheHalk/SilverSurfer059-02.jpgThat's the same series where two Doom servants captured Dr Strange though. Same series as normal Nebula almost knocked out Dr Strange with a punch.
Nice way to flip flop the context of the scans. This is before Doc tried. And this is the scan of Thanos being held by Hulk and Thor while Surfer is held by Drax and Firelord. Doom isn't using much, if any, force to restrain them. And you say "let's ignore all the background people".SMH.
Well almost doesn't count and as far as the Doom/Strange comparison goes this should end it.
^Doom admits that Doc is more versed in the mystic arts. He even contemplates becoming a disciple. It would be hard for him to win a non prep forum fight against Strange.
Originally posted by Branlor Swift
Then you should kick up that whole proving 'Strange can beat any herald without too much trouble' thing.
I don't have to prove anything. It's clear you dislike the character and would find a way to lowball whatever I present. Im not going back and forth with you just to validate and point out the context of every feat to you again.
Not saying you do this with every character but only when it comes to Strange for some reason.
Originally posted by Sundipped
Misinterpretation of scans. No one is holding Surfer or Thanos when Doc forcibly separated them. Firelord failed by himself. Everyone repeatedly failed before that but it was Strange who succeeded. He even bfred them to allow them to continue their scuffle.
You're not making any sense. Thanos and Surfer are clearly being restrained by the others.
Strange even outright says that his mystical powers could not accomplish the task alone were it not for brute might.
Too lazy to read the rest of this argument, this just stood out as exceptionally stupid to me.
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
You're not making any sense. Thanos and Surfer are clearly being restrained by the others.Strange even outright says that his mystical powers could not accomplish the task alone were it not for brute might.
Too lazy to read the rest of this argument, this just stood out as exceptionally stupid to me.
Ok but his purpose was to have Doom come off as looking superior in some way in terms of restraint. And Strange still expended energy that effected them both at the same time with a gesture, energy radiating out in both directions.
You didn't read the rest of the argument? So you just skipped right to that part? 😂
Originally posted by Branlor Swift
What Warlock did to Strange was 'give him a taste of the time gem
to convince him of his folly' to show him a glimpse of what would
happen if Warlock didn't follow through, sent him really far away
from the battlefield, distorted everyone's senses, showed him him
still being a doctor, and tried to blast him once that missed.The only time he actually got mad was with the Power Gem
because Strange kept trying to prove him wrong.All Warlock did was try and get Strange not to fight him. He didn't
try and turn his brain off, warp him into paste, teleported him into a
sun, actually hit him with a blast, or try to suck his soul. He tried to
sway him from not fighting. And Strange needed every artifact to
combat that. What is that if not pathetic? Hell, everything he had
with every artifact literally bounced off his wrist.What was so impressive about this fight again? Strange stating 3
times that Warlock was going to kill him?The IG fight is a non feat.
I can't believe people still think
Dr Strange "stood up to" the IG,
or even a single Gem.
Sund ... I'm disappointed.
Ol' Doc came Prepped with All his Talisman's combined,
and still was going to be obliterated by the Power Gem alone
after a mere moment.
The Power Gem ... the only Gem Warlock used to hurt Strange.
^^ I wouldn't call that a stalemate simply cause he would've lasted a moment.
A stalemate is an even match to the end.
Doc, was to be destroyed, almost as fast as it started.
Originally posted by Sundipped
Im disappointed in you saying he didn't stand up to the gems when he clearly did.
Originally posted by leonidas
^lol i think between the 2 of us over the last couple years we've pretty much at one time or another busted every dr strange myth that's been raised in the forum. yet....i still see the same old stuff, i still see him in matches against guys like odin, stalemating the IG, beating death, matching the LT, beating the inbetweener, etc, etc.... people will believe what they want to believe. strange IS powerful. just be objective regarding where he's placed in relationship to his peers.
Originally posted by TheGodKiller
I blame comicvine, and the contagious effects Marvel Mystic fans from that board have had on innocent souls. Have you ever read some of the Cyttorak VS threads on that site? It's a serious detriment to one's sanity, is what it is.
lol
i'm proud to say my nerdness is restricted to this site only. there were a few cyttorak threads on here at one time or another though that had me scratching my head....
Originally posted by leonidas
loli'm proud to say my nerdness is restricted to this site only. there were a few cyttorak threads on here at one time or another though that had me scratching my head....
Hell, from my recent lurkings over there, people think that Mephisto can beat the whole Celestial race within his realm. Context is an alien concept on that site.
Originally posted by TheGodKiller
They honestly think on that board that Cyttorak can beat the Living Tribunal in or out of his realm. Guess where they got that idea from? The very same Strange showings(among which the PR Beyonder one is brought up most often) which you claim you and Bran have debunked on this board.Hell, from my recent lurkings over there, people think that Mephisto can beat the whole Celestial race within his realm. Context is an alien concept on that site.
it seems (from my VERY) brief foray over there that the general populace is very young and not very well versed in the history of the characters. maybe they just lack that historical perspective? meh, this site challenges my sanity often enough that i don't need to go looking for more.
