Originally posted by Sundipped
Strange stalemate with the PG,and then had the gem which he is the most intimately tied to
and has the most feats with (no one else even comes close as far
as feats with the SG) TURNED AGAINST HIM while it was IN HIS
POSSESSION.How you see any of this is not impressive is beyond me.
Also, Doc only mentioned he would fail in a prolonged battle with
the PG once but that doesn't change what happened for the time being on panel.
A stalemate is a stalemate.
Strange (All Talisman's combined) momentarily survived the PG,
but then as the Future was exposed,
we see he was about to be destroyed in the next moment.
Also, Strange never used or "turned" the Soul Gem against Warlock,
all Doc did was communicate with Warlock through he SG.
-------------------------------------------
Any who ... On Panel proof:
Dr Strange, with All Talisman's combined (I just noticed he brought everything with him)
VS
Warlock/Power Gem:
-------------------------------------------
Then Doc, through the Soul Gem, contacts Warlock and has him see the definite Future,
which is,
Warlock "Destroying Strange--as must certainly happen any moment now"
and how his reality change ends up badly.
Warlock was blinded by his Godhood ... making him commit foolishness:
----------------------------------------------------
But we shouldn't get it twisted,
because Doc always knew he was nothing to the IG:
----------------------------------------------------
This particular scene demonstrates where how a simple question from Warlock,
turns into a command from God which negates mighty Vishanti member Oshtur's power
as Doc tries to harness it.
🙂
Like I said earlier, Warlock could've forced Strange to his plan,
but he wanted to convince him instead.
After noticing Doc wasn't budging the nice way,
Warlock got angry, Doc attacked, and the PG came into play.
I explained the rest already.
Originally posted by Mr Master
Strange never really stalemated the Power Gem my good friend.A stalemate is a stalemate.
Strange (All Talisman's combined) momentarily survived the PG,
but then as the Future was exposed,
we see he was about to be destroyed in the next moment
equilibrium [ee-kwuh-lib-ree-uhm, ek-wuh- ]
noun plural e·qui·lib·ri·ums, e·qui·lib·ri·a 1. a state of rest or balance due to the equal action of opposing forces. 2 equal balance between any powers, influences, etc.; equality of effect.
The exchange was stated to have power that would lay waste to many a world. These are solar system wrecking blasts. No one disputes Adam being more powerful. I'm trying to get people to see the level of power was equaled if only for a short period. If it wasn't so much of a deal, it wouldn't have warranted mentioning.
Originally posted by Mr Master
Also , Strange never used or "turned" the Soul Gem against Warlock,
all Doc did was communicate with Warlock through he SG
Communication is using it. Anytime anyone has a weapon and gets that weapon utilized (no matter the method) against them, then it is, in a sense, turned on them. The illustration shows the gem separated from the gauntlet with a beam (tk?) coming from Strange's forehead then he operates through it. That's a feat in itself.
Originally posted by Mr Master
Warlock was blinded by his Godhood ... making him commit foolishness
👆
Originally posted by Mr Master
But we shouldn't get it twisted,
because Doc always knew he was nothing to the IG
He made that comment before he prepped. Really the only gem of concern was the PG. Hence the statement Doc made about all artifacts arranged to counteract it. If Doc thought he had no shot whatsoever he would've stayed put.
Originally posted by Mr Master
This particular scene demonstrates where how a simple question from Warlock,
turns into a command from God which negates mighty Vishanti member Oshtur's power
as Doc tries to harness it.🙂
Like I said earlier, Warlock could've forced Strange to his plan,
but he wanted to convince him instead.
After noticing Doc wasn't budging the nice way,
Warlock got angry, Doc attacked, and the PG came into play.
I explained the rest already.
I don't see the significance of Adam forcing Doc to remain. That was just a standard teloportation spell he negated before the fight even started. He hadn't even revealed his artifacts yet. Doc can channel all 3 Vishanti if need be like when he laid Death out. No artifacts needed.
I'm fairly certain the Gauntlet can negate an amped Strange with the gems used in unison, but you can't base your assertion of him being able to do so off only a basic spell. It's possible Strange could've offered a degree of resistance towards that effect while amped.
Originally posted by Sundipped
The exchange was stated to have power that would lay waste to
many a world. These are solar system wrecking blasts. No one
disputes Adam being more powerful. I'm trying to get people to
see the level of power was equaled if only for a short period. If it
wasn't so much of a deal, it wouldn't have warranted mentioning.
Originally posted by Sundipped
Communication is using it. Anytime anyone has a weapon and gets
that weapon utilized (no matter the method) against them, then it
is, in a sense, turned on them. The illustration shows the gem
separated from the gauntlet with a beam (tk?) coming from
Strange's forehead then he operates through it. That's
a feat in itself.
Suggesting Doc used the Soul Gem against Warlock in any way, shape or form,
is an utter fallacy.
Also,
I disagree with your notion of Doc removing the Soul Gem from Warlock,
when all he did was commune with Warlock via the Soul Gem with Aggy/TP.
Artistic interpretation is simply showing us Doc communicating with Warlock,
through the Soul Gem,
by using Aggy's Eye to TP info,
nothing more.
Originally posted by Sundipped
He made that comment before he prepped. Really the only gem of
concern was the PG. Hence the statement Doc made about all
artifacts arranged to counteract it. If Doc thought he had no shot
whatsoever he would've stayed put.
Doc knew he was nothing to the IG cause he dealt with the IG prior,
vs Thanos, Nebula and Magus.
All the Prep in the world, including his 3 friends, are motes to the IG.
Originally posted by Sundipped
I don't see the significance of Adam forcing Doc to remain. That
was just a standard teloportation spell he negated before the fight
even started. He hadn't even revealed his artifacts yet. Doc can
channel all 3 Vishanti if need be like when he laid Death out. No artifacts needed.
He can also channel whoever he wants,
and he'll still be curbstomped.
Come on Sun, this is a silly debate.
Also, you do know that Death was manipulating that whole scene right?
How she was trying to seduce Strange to embrace her?
Uhm, Death never wanted to, or was going to kill Strange,
she wanted him to submit with free will.
Originally posted by Sundipped
I'm fairly certain the Gauntlet can negate an amped Strange with
the gems used in unison,
but you can't base your assertion of him being able to do so off
only a basic spell. It's possible Strange could've offered a degree
of resistance towards that effect while amped.
My friend, Strange (prep and all) is nothing to the Power Gem,
and even less than that, next to the IG.
Originally posted by Mr Master
If you believe Doc stalemated anything cause he lasted a moment,
a single Panel,
that's on you,
imo, that's Not a stalemate at all
I'm not going to argue over the semantics of words. Did you not read the definition of the word equilibrium, the same exact word used on panel? It's plain as day what's being implied here, regardless of whatever time period.
Originally posted by Mr Master
You're kidding right?Suggesting Doc used the Soul Gem against Warlock in any ways, shape or form,
is an utter fallacy.Also,
I disagree with your notion of Doc removing the Soul Gem from Warlock,
when all he did was commune with Warlock via the Soul Gem with Aggy/TP.Artistic interpretation is simply showing us Doc communicating with Warlock,
through the Soul Gem,
by using Aggy's Eye to TP info,
nothing more.
He reached Adams innermost being using the SG. That was supposed to be Adams weapon to use on Strange because it was on his person but Doc extracted the gem and hit Adam with a revelation by reaching him through his soul first. That's one of the purposes the gem can be used for. The gem was used against him. I don't know how to make this any simpler.
Now tell me how did the gem get out of the gauntlet and out in the open? I'll tell you why. Because Steve took it out. If you look closely you can see the red streaks on the backside of the gem stretched to indicate rapid movement towards Strange. The artist's depiction + the fact that Strange at the time was operating under the combined power of all of his artifacts strongly supports that Doc removed it.
Originally posted by Mr Master
disagree.Doc knew he was nothing to the IG cause he dealt with the IG prior,
vs Thanos, Nebula and Magus.All the Prep in the world, including his 3 friends, are motes to the IG
He knew he had enough power to at least counteract effects of the gems with prep. That was enough to convince him that he had some sort of a shot. He didn't go with the intention of thinking he could outright defeat him.
Originally posted by Mr Master
What the heck are his artifacts gonna do against the IG's power?He can also channel whoever he wants,
and he'll still be curbstomped.Come on Sun, this is a silly debate.
Also , you do know that Death was manipulating that whole scene right?
How she was trying to seduce Strange to embrace her?
Uhm, Death never wanted to, or was going to kill Strange,
she wanted him to submit with free will.
You tried to use Adam negating that simple spell as grounds that it would work to the same effect on a all the way amped Strange like what was seen vs the PG. For the record, I did state that the Gauntlet would prove more powerful in that event but consider if Adam only used the reality gem to render Strange stationary while Doc was fully amped. Would it be so set in stone then? The orb of Aggy alone was able to pierce the veil of distorted reality . Now if he added the PG to enhance the potency in conjunction with the RG, or just the PG solely, then I have no doubt Adam would've overridden the amp easily. Just throwing a hypothetical scenario out there.
I know the context of that scene. She was also using that as an opportunity to take Galactus as well. However that doesn't diminish the significance of that blast in any way shape or form. Especially since other beings have attacked her to no affect. Strange being one of them on a separate occasion with him channeling only Oshtur for a mystic bolt.
Originally posted by Mr Master
I'm fairly certain just the Power Gem alone (as depicted On Panel)
is more than enough to obliterate Strange (fully prepped) after a moment.My friend, Strange (prep and all) is nothing to the Power Gem,
and even less than that, next to the IG.
You act as if somebody said Doc had a chance for victory against one of the top powers in the MU or something. Everyone and their mom knows he would fail, even against the PG. That much was stated on panel and everyone is already in accordance with it. Don't know why you feel the need to reiterate that. 😬
Originally posted by SundippedI'm not going to argue over the semantics of words. Did you
not read the definition of the word equilibrium, the same exact
word used on panel? It's plain as day what's being implied here,
regardless of whatever time period.
So there's a 12 round fight,
and both fighters are equal for 20 seconds of the 1st round,
then 10 seconds later one fighter kills the other with a punch,
... this should signify a stalemate.
NIMO ... but I'll respect yours.
Originally posted by SundippedHe reached Adams innermost being using the SG. That was
supposed to be Adams weapon to use on Strange because it was
on his person but Doc extracted the gem and hit Adam with a
revelation by reaching him through his soul first. That's one of the
purposes the gem can be used for. The gem was used against
him. I don't know how to make this any simpler.Now tell me how did the gem get out of the gauntlet and out in the
open? I'll tell you why. Because Steve took it out. If you look
closely you can see the red streaks on the backside of the gem
stretched to indicate rapid movement towards Strange. The artist's
depiction + the fact that Strange at the time was operating under
the combined power of all of his artifacts strongly supports that
Doc removed it.
Doc never removed anything,
and Doc never used anything against Warlock except his own toys.
lol at the thought that Strange can just remove Gems from an IG wielder.
Originally posted by SundippedHe knew he had enough power to at least counteract effects of
the gems with prep. That was enough to convince him that he had
some sort of a shot. He didn't go with the intention of thinking he
could outright defeat him.
He lasted a moment fully prepped against the PG.
I don't see how he knew anything my friend.
Originally posted by SundippedYou tried to use Adam negating that simple spell as grounds
that it would work to the same effect on a all the way amped
Strange like what was seen vs the PG. For the record, I did state
that the Gauntlet would prove more powerful in that event but
consider if Adam only used the reality gem to render Strange
stationary while Doc was fully amped. Would it be so set in stone
then? The orb of Aggy alone was able to pierce the veil of
distorted reality . Now if he added the PG to enhance the potency
in conjunction with the RG, or just the PG solely, then I have no
doubt Adam would've overridden the amp easily. Just throwing a
hypothetical scenario out there.
PG/Thor one shotted Doc Strange, Warlock and Surfer simultaneously, and they attacked Thor first.
Grant it, Doc wasn't 'fully prepped' although he knew what he was up against,
but Thor wasn't even tapping the Gem consciously. (no IG)
(heck, Eternity itself said Thor (in time) would threaten himself & Infinity)
SG/Warlock destroyed an Entire Reality/Universe. (no IG)
TG/Rune froze the Entire Time-Stream where only the LT was unfazed. (no IG)
*** My friend, Doc stands no chance of any kind against any single Gem.
Originally posted by SundippedI know the context of that scene. She was also using that as an
opportunity to take Galactus as well. However that doesn't
diminish the significance of that blast in any way shape or form.
Especially since other beings have attacked her to no affect.
Strange being one of them on a separate occasion with him
channeling only Oshtur for a mystic bolt.
Originally posted by SundippedYou act as if somebody said Doc had a chance for victory against
one of the top powers in the MU or something.Everyone and their mom knows he would fail, even against the PG.
That much was stated on panel and everyone is already in accordance with it.
Originally posted by ThereIsHopeClassic Dr Strange stood up to the IG
Originally posted by Sundipped^ 👆
Originally posted by Branlor Swifteach individual gem, and he got embarrassed.
Originally posted by SundippedHe didn't get embarrassed by the gems,
he stalemated every one of em.
Originally posted by Mr Master
I see.So there's a 12 round fight,
and both fighters are equal for 20 seconds of the 1st round,
then 10 seconds later one fighter kills the other with a punch,
... this should signify a stalemate.NIMO ... but I'll respect yours
This is getting redundant. My response to this was:
Originally posted by Sundipped
The exchange was stated to have power that would lay waste to many a world. These are solar system wrecking blasts. No one disputes Adam being more powerful. I'm trying to get people to see the level of power was equaled if only for a short period.
Don't get so caught up on the word stalemate. I was trying to show you the wording that's actually on panel, but you're having a tough time adjusting.
Originally posted by Mr Master
I completely disagree.Doc never removed anything,
and Doc never used anything against Warlock except his own toys.lol at the thought that Strange can just remove Gems from an IG wielder.
Aren't you the one always reminding others to not ignore on panel evidence? I guess preachers don't have to practice huh?
Originally posted by Mr Master
He didn't counteract anything though
cause Warlock wasn't trying to hurt him with any of the Gems
save for the PG at the end.He lasted a moment fully prepped against the PG.
I don't see how he knew anything my friend.
What he didn't know was if Adam was going to go all out or not before he left his house.
There's also this
Main Entry: coun·ter·act Pronunciation: \ˌkau n-tər-ˈakt\Function: transitive verb Date: 1655 :
to make ineffective or restrain or neutralize the usually ill effects of by means of an opposite force, action, or influence
It seems you're having a tough time with definitions in this debate. 😐
Originally posted by Mr Master
I have to disagree.PG/Thor one shotted Doc Strange, Warlock and Surfer simultaneously, and they attacked Thor first.
Grant it, Doc wasn't 'fully prepped' although he knew what he was up against,
but Thor wasn't even tapping the Gem consciously. (no IG)
(heck, Eternity itself said Thor (in time) would threaten himself & Infinity)SG/Warlock destroyed an Entire Reality/Universe. (no IG)
TG/Rune froze the Entire Time-Stream where only the LT was unfazed. (no IG)
*** My friend, Doc stands no chance of any kind against any single Gem
What's underlined makes the rest of your post irrelevant because we were only talking about resisting teleportation. Also there's this
Originally posted by Sundipped
Although Warlock didn't go "all out",
^I said that a loooong time ago. 😬
Originally posted by Mr Master
Nice . I'll return with the rest of the story (and scans)
to prove that whole silliness with Strange was in Death's plan
If it doesn't have anything to do with her being depowered then I don't see how it's relevant to the discussion.
Originally posted by Mr Master
Well I appreciate you highlighting that cause that's the truth.
It just didn't seem that way which is why I joined this debate.
I thought you felt differently because one: You continue to prolong this discussion,
and two ... these were some of the reasons I had to join a Cosmic discourse:In the event that innocent onlookers may consider this as accurate info,
I felt I had to step in and clarify the facts, which Bran had already done so more or less.
I was done with this discussion until you quoted me. Every thing has already been explained. You had a big problem with the terminology used (stalemate). Everything else I explained about the fight is accurate. And Bran, (who by the way is not in this discussion) only lowballed IMO, so stating to me that he "cleared" any facts would be asinine in my view. You're right tho, the onlookers can now decide for themselves.
Originally posted by SundippedThis is getting redundant. My response to this was:
Don't get so caught up on the word stalemate.
I was trying to show you the wording that's actually on panel,but you're having a tough time adjusting.
Originally posted by SundippedAren't you the one always reminding others to not ignore on panel evidence?
I guess preachers don't have to practice huh?
So in your mind,
Doctor Strange can simply yank Gems from an IG wielder. 😆
Come on homie,
can't you tell that the artist was conveying the idea of communication,
which is why we see the Gem superimposed.
Still can't get over that idea of Doc removing Gems from the IG. lol
Originally posted by SundippedWhat he didn't know was if Adam was going to go all out or
not before he left his house.There's also this
It seems you're having a tough time with definitions in this debate.
Originally posted by SundippedWhat's underlined makes the rest of your post irrelevant because
we were only talking about resisting teleportation. Also there's this^I said that a loooong time ago.
Fine, fair enuff. It would still make no difference the scenario imo.
Originally posted by SundippedIf it doesn't have anything to do with her being depowered
then I don't see how it's relevant to the discussion.
I'm just gonna show ya how Doc never hurt/stalemated/defeated
or anything else,
Miss Death didn't will herself with purpose.
As for relevance, you brought it up.
Originally posted by SundippedI was done with this discussion until you quoted me. Every
thing has already been explained. You had a big problem with the
terminology used (stalemate).Everything else I explained about the fight is accurate.
And Bran, (who by the way is not in this
discussion) only lowballed IMO, so stating to me that he "cleared"
any facts would be asinine in my view. You're right tho, the
onlookers can now decide for themselves.
I had a problem with you saying Doc stood up to the IG
and Doc stalemate the Gems individually,
which is not only asinine but false ... no offense.
btw, I was completely respectful with you,
but since you decided to get frustrated and nasty in this last post,
I responded with "Gibberish" (in one form or another) accordingly.
I was tempted to bite back hard as I've done in the past,
but that's not me no mo.
So keep it on topic and respectful ...
You're a solid debater, there's no need for snide remarks,
or useless attempts at belittling one's level of comprehension.
^
Ok so it might have came off a bit snide.
Safe to say we have an obvious difference in interpretations, but if there were no differences on this forum, then, this forum might not even exist.
*extends hand for shake*
Oh yeah, I'm still a fan of the I.G. too. 😎
That's one thing I really don't want to get misconstrued despite my support for Strange in this thread.
^ 👆
Although our opinions may differ on this one,
I just noticed something interesting.
Setting aside the 'stalemate' circle discussion we ended up in,
the other debate we engaged in was involving the Soul Gem,
did Doc extract it or not.
Well, ... that diamond 'rubiesk' object that pops up in-front of Doc,
is Not the Soul Gem.
(full page)
[img=http://s4d3.turboimagehost.com/t/15644726_Doc.jpg]
(excerpt)
It's one of Doc's Talisman's (left hand upper corner)
which he evidently used to contact Warlock via the Soul Gem. 🙂
You confused me and had even Me thinking that was the Soul Gem superimposed.
So, as a true debater,
you'll at-least concede to that particular part of our discourse.
Originally posted by Sundipped
^ 👆
Although iirc he only evaded Mantis for a short period.
A serious Classic Strange should dispatch any herald without too much trouble.
Which doesn't make any sense considering he thinks at a human rate and Surfer should be able to blitz one shot Strange anywhere on the planet before Strange even begins to think of a spell
Originally posted by Mr Master
^ 👆Although our opinions may differ on this one,
I just noticed something interesting.Setting aside the 'stalemate' circle discussion we ended up in,
the other debate we engaged in was involving the Soul Gem,
did Doc extract it or not.Well, ... that diamond 'rubiesk' object that pops up in-front of Doc,
is Not the Soul Gem.(full page)
[img=http://s4d3.turboimagehost.com/t/15644726_Doc.jpg]
(excerpt)
It's one of Doc's Talisman's (left hand upper corner)
which he evidently used to contact Warlock via the Soul Gem. 🙂You confused me and had even Me thinking that was the Soul Gem superimposed.
So, as a true debater,
you'll at-least concede to that particular part of our discourse.
👆
Good observation.
What had me fooled was art on the backside of the gem which had me thinking the SG was pulled out but it was really energy being projected through the artifact.
It shows that this particular artifact can be used to "manipulate" (I'll leave out "use against"😉 the soul gem when it's in someone elses possession, even on the Gauntlet.
Also now I remember, (but didn't take time to stop and think at the time), that all gems are oval in shape. At least that's always the depiction I've always seen on panel.
My debating skills must be really proficient in order to initially confuse you of all people (unintentionally) huh? 😂 I even fooled myself.
Good catch tho.
Originally posted by Raisen
Which doesn't make any sense considering he thinks at a human rate and Surfer should be able to blitz one shot Strange anywhere on the planet before Strange even begins to think of a spell
Except we have to use Surfer "in character" on this forum unless stated otherwise. He rarely starts fights off like that so it's not his standard portrayal.
Originally posted by Sundipped
Good observation.
What had me fooled was art on the backside of the gem which had me thinking the SG was pulled out but it was really energy being projected through the artifact.Also now I remember, (but didn't take time to stop and think at the time), that all gems are oval in shape. At least that's always the depiction I've always seen on panel.
My debating skills must be really proficient in order to initially confuse you of all people (unintentionally) huh? 😂 I even fooled myself.
Good catch tho.
Originally posted by Sundipped
It shows that this particular artifact can be used to "manipulate" (I'll
leave out "use against"😉 the soul gem when it's in someone elses
possession, even on the Gauntlet.
Other than that ... nathan. Therefore it's meaningless. 😛
Originally posted by TheGodKiller
They honestly think on that board that Cyttorak can beat the Living Tribunal in or out of his realm. Guess where they got that idea from? The very same Strange showings(among which the PR Beyonder and the Living Tribunal ones are brought up most often) which you claim you and Bran have debunked on this board.Hell, from my recent lurkings over there, people think that Mephisto can beat the whole Celestial race within his realm. Context is an alien concept on that site.
That's nothing. I have seen people claim that Midnighter can beat up Spider-Man and Wolverine at the same time. 😂
Originally posted by Mr Master
👆 😂... "manipulate" ... as in to transfer info? Sure.
Other than that ... nathan. Therefore it's meaningless. 😛
I'll just say that a gauntlet wielder should have no business having ANY gem being used by the opposition for ANY purpose. Especially a case like this which had the IG wielder stunned for 6 panels.
I'll let that slide.......for now. 😏
![[img=http://s4d3.turboimagehost.com/t/15644726_Doc.jpg]](http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/15644726/Doc.jpg.html){kind=link}
