Low herald at best?
Guy's arguably the most learned and skilled magician on the planet (and has been pushed as such for a while, barring Dr. Strange's recent return to Sorcerer Supreme status). He held his own against Morgan Le Fey and even embarrassed "classic" era Strange. And those are just a couple of feats focused mainly on his magic, not his intellect and tech.
Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Low herald at best?Guy's arguably the most learned and skilled magician on the planet (and has been pushed as such for a while, barring Dr. Strange's recent return to Sorcerer Supreme status). He held his own against Morgan Le Fey and even embarrassed "classic" era Strange. And those are just a couple of feats focused mainly on his magic, not his intellect and tech.
On earth? Okay.
Not that many skilled/power magicians on earth when you think about it though.
I also think that Talisman and Shaman would beat him silly.
Originally posted by Mshinu
We all know Banner is smarter than Doom now btw. 😉
PIS. 🙂
On the real, though, If you were take Banner's best feats and compare them to the best from Stark, Pym, Richards, and of course, Doom, they'd blow him out of the water. That said, his push makes him around their general level, even taking the "smartest one there is" hyperbole with a grain of salt.
Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Sure there are. Strange, Wiccan, Loki (referring to classic), Scarlet Witch, Morgan Le Fay, Baron Mordo, Selene, Enchantress, etc.
Yeah I wasn't counting Loki or Enchantress.
Out of the people who I put above in Doom in magic from Marvel earth there areM
Loki, Shaman, Talisman, Selene, Cthon/mordred, Forge with full Shaman powers, Illyana at peak, Mauvais and a few others I can get to later.
Le Fay and Mordo are up for debate.
Wiccan is almost impossible to measure imo.
Doom is great, but trying to gauge his power with statements that he's the best magic-user on Marvel Earth and such is a bit silly in my opinion.
Originally posted by curryman
Yeah I wasn't counting Loki or Enchantress.Out of the people who I put above in Doom in magic from Marvel earth there areM
Loki, Shaman, Talisman, Selene, Cthon/mordred, Forge with full Shaman powers, Illyana at peak, Mauvais and a few others I can get to later.
Le Fay and Mordo are up for debate.
Wiccan is almost impossible to measure imo.
Doom is great, but trying to gauge his power with statements that he's the best magic-user on Marvel Earth and such is a bit silly in my opinion.
It's not just statements - multiple ones at that made by credible sources - but his actual feats that suggest that Doom is definitely up there. The guy's come a very long way from being a "mid tier mage". And again, this is purely from a mystical stand point, not factoring in his tech or intellect in general.
I think there's room for Doom being anywhere from among the top of the low herald tier to being mid herald. He's certainly not barely reaching herald status.
Originally posted by JakeTheBank
I think there's room for Doom being anywhere from among the top of the low herald tier to being mid herald. He's certainly not barely reaching herald status.
I completely agree.
Originally posted by JakeTheBank
It's not just statements - multiple ones at that made by credible sources - but his actual feats that suggest that Doom is definitely up there. The guy's come a very long way from being a "mid tier mage". And again, this is purely from a mystical stand point, not factoring in his tech or intellect in general.
Yeah but these statements are normally made by terrible writers and people with no real overview of who's left on Marvel Earth. And if anything that statement would only be true because so many powerful magicians have been purged from Marvel Earth in the last years.
I'm just saying that there's a huge difference between being "up there" and being the top-mage on Marvel Earth. To be blunt; he isn't the most powerful mage on Marvel Earth and that's all there is to it. I don't really want to get into it considering how god damn militant many of the Doom fans are 😛
Last I checked the Enchanters weren't dead either, and I would certainly put them above him.
Originally posted by curryman
I completely agree.
👆
Originally posted by curryman
Yeah but these statements are normally made by terrible writers and people with no real overview of who's left on Marvel Earth. And if anything that statement would only be true because so many powerful magicians have been purged from Marvel Earth in the last years.I'm just saying that there's a huge difference between being "up there" and being the top-mage on Marvel Earth. To be blunt; he isn't the most powerful mage on Marvel Earth and that's all there is to it. I don't really want to get into it considering how god damn militant many of the Doom fans are 😛
Last I checked the Enchanters weren't dead either, and I would certainly put them above him.
How so? If you're referring to Bendis, true, Bendis can be a hack, but in the case of Strange repeatedly stating Doom's prowess as a magician having been increased, it's backed up by feats. Mark Waid certainly explored Doom's mystical prowess increasing as did JMS and others. In terms of overt raw power, I wouldn't say Doom is the most powerful mage (nor did I), but in terms of skill and knowledge? I'd definitely say he's easily at the top as it pertains to Marvel Earth with Strange nearby.
Okay, okay. I often equate skill with power when it comes to magicians. I see the logical fallacies in doing that but it's a really difficult area to get into. There's so many people making deals or getting items that it's really-really hard to determine what's skill and what's not.
Doom might very well be one of the most skilled.
Many of the people more powerful than him are also more powerful than Strange tho, so I'm not sure how capable he would be of judging that.
Originally posted by JakeTheBankBanner just started lol give him a chance and he will prove himself...
PIS. 🙂On the real, though, If you were take Banner's best feats and compare them to the best from Stark, Pym, Richards, and of course, Doom, they'd blow him out of the water. That said, his push makes him around their general level, even taking the "smartest one there is" hyperbole with a grain of salt.
The last thing we need to call PIS,is a characters intellect 😐
Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Low herald at best?Guy's arguably the most learned and skilled magician on the planet (and has been pushed as such for a while, barring Dr. Strange's recent return to Sorcerer Supreme status). He held his own against Morgan Le Fey and even embarrassed "classic" era Strange. And those are just a couple of feats focused mainly on his magic, not his intellect and tech.
I would have to agree with Dr Doom is Dr Strange peer and that say a lot, Doom should be in the top 10 with Strange, Shaman,Tailsman etc they are peers.