I did the mining as well. It sucked. Bioware basically said it sucked, they tried to fix it with a patch and then replaced it completely.
I still liked traversing the planets in the first game the best. For the second, I wanted to fix the mechanics and make each planet you visited more unique and have something interesting to them.
My first playthrough, everybody survived. On my second play through, Mordin died.
Originally posted by Nephthys
Says the guy with the visual novel boner, which are games where all you do is talk to people over large portions of time.
The problem with Mass Effect isn't the basic method of conversing with the characters, it's the practice of doing so in a formulaic manner. Visual novels (which consists of both narration as well as dialogue) depending on the type of story they wish to tell will have the characters interact dynamically over the course of the game; Mass Effect by comparison follows a strict formula and has you interact with the characters at specific intervals all together in much the same manner - you even have Shepard using the same stock dialogue when asking some of the more general questions and the conversations flow very similarly with each character. The conversations in general also do not flow very well with the timing of your own player input and how the camera moves around during them. Videogames absolutely possess their own unique functions and advantages in telling a story but the answer is not to utilize these at the expense of other cinematic and literary functions and that is largely what these formulaic conversation systems do. The pacing is just off entirely and there's a reason you don't see it in literature and cinema.
Originally posted by NemeBro
You know nothing about writing.Go away.
In what way does it require any real skill to add a lot of detail to a character's personality? The skill lies in the telling of it and making that personality interesting; it is my opinion that the characters in Mass Effect were not.
However I'm sure you're still a little butthurt about losing our exchange earlier - in humiliating fashion might I add - so this little indiscretion can be forgiven. Now go fetch me my croissants you whore.
Originally posted by Zack Fair
Exactly. i was going to elaborate on how each new unit just kept getting weirder and weirder, but was too lazy.FOXHOUND was weird, but they still felt like a real elite unit. Mantis was the weirdest of the bunch, but his psychic powers pretty much kindda force his design to be like that.
Dead Cell gave us Fortune, who was pretty cool in my book. Then it gave us Vamp...who was all right except for a few things that bothered me. Then it gave us a fat bastard on roller blades. LoL What?
FOX is the clear winner. I thought Mantis was LOL WTF is this shit freaky...then I met The Fear.
Beauty n' the beast - LOL. All I gotta say. Their cyborg designs were cool as all **** though.
I submit that Fatman was more interesting than any character in Mass Effect, no matter how bizarre he may have been.
Yes I have played it and I chose Fatman specifically to highlight the fact that people are exaggerating the bizarreness of some of the characters and ignoring what makes those characters interesting. Thus, I present to you the most bizarre character by far in Metal Gear canon, and submit that he is more interesting than any character in Mass Effect.
Originally posted by FinalAnswer
Persona 4 has better gameplay mechanics, but I generally preferred 3's characters, storylines and themes, but that's mostly personal preferences.Both are amazing games though, and you should definitely try 4 after you're done 3, though that means either finding a PS2 copy somewhere or getting Golden on Vita.
I'm going to have to track that down then.
Originally posted by Ben "cA" Risa
So basically is the backseat modding okay as long as I do not express it as a command?For example, am I allowed to politely remind people to stay on topic?
😱
I never said Fatman was the most interesting character, I in fact singled him out for being one of the lesser characters as well as the single most bizarre of the series, and still being a better character than any seen in the Mass Effect franchise.
For one thing, naming a mad bomb maker after the atomic bomb that detonated over Nagasaki, "Fat Man", and then taking it to the literal extreme of making it his defining physical characteristic was a beautiful piece of irony that tied in to the general outlandish and unlikable nature of the character. Having this horribly grotesque individual who's not only insane but one of the premier terrorists of the game equipped with this giant bomb suit, and then having him glide along on these rollerskates with a cocktail in hand not only highlighted the bizarre, insane, contradictory nature of his character, but it did so with style. As he himself claimed, he was the best and the worst that humanity had to offer, and underneath the madness and ugliness there was genuine genius, pride, and artistry. He considered his hands, and the role they had in his work of making bombs, as the most important part of himself and took care of them to the point that they were as delicate and soft as those of a baby. He would mark bombs of his design with his very own fragrance as a personal signature of his work, he had his own unique philosophy regarding bombs and their nature and he truly was a genius at the art elevating it to a level that it had never before attained.
A really good job was also done with the writing and voice acting to really deliver the character they wished to portray. The character was bizarre, unlikable, disgusting in many ways, and it wasn't particularly important as far as the series is concerned, but it doesn't mean it wasn't a well crafted one, particularly when you also consider the gameplay implications. Having this overweight character in a bomb suit on rollerskates going around and planting bombs made for a really awesome boss battle - it made him durable, fast, and he would hide the bombs in pretty good places, making the job of locating and disposing the bombs while fending off his attacks a really challenging and engaging gameplay segment. Hiding the final bomb under his person - another application of his persona as a fat man - was also a pretty clever move.
I didn't once encounter a single character in Mass Effect that I would consider at all interesting.
Originally posted by Ben "cA" RisaYou're changing the point to suit your own idiotic argument, or lack thereof.
In what way does it require any real skill to add a lot of detail to a character's personality? The skill lies in the telling of it and making that personality interesting; it is my opinion that the characters in Mass Effect were not.However I'm sure you're still a little butthurt about losing our exchange earlier - in humiliating fashion might I add - so this little indiscretion can be forgiven. Now go fetch me my croissants you whore.
Piling detail after detail onto characters is easy. Forming a realistically developed character, with ambitions, emotions, and reactions that flow together smoothly is very hard.
You never posted your argument you stupid ass-ramming pedophile. You're a limp-dicked pussy, all bark no bite, making long posts filled with no content.
Originally posted by Ben "cA" Risa
[B]For one thing, naming a mad bomb maker after the atomic bomb that detonated over Nagasaki, "Fat Man", and then taking it to the literal extreme of making it his defining physical characteristic was a beautiful piece of irony that tied in to the general outlandish and unlikable nature of the character.
That isn't ironic.
Having this horribly grotesque individual who's not only insane but one of the premier terrorists of the game equipped with this giant bomb suit, and then having him glide along on these rollerskates with a cocktail in hand not only highlighted the bizarre, insane, contradictory nature of his character, but it did so with style.
Why are you devoting so many posts to highlight that he is "bizarre"? We accept that. Stop padding your posts to make lesser minds believe they have content.
As he himself claimed, he was the best and the worst that humanity had to offer, and underneath the madness and ugliness there was genuine genius, pride, and artistry.
Hey this is actually true.
He considered his hands, and the role they had in his work of making bombs, as the most important part of himself and took care of them to the point that they were as delicate and soft as those of a baby. He would mark bombs of his design with his very own fragrance as a personal signature of his work, he had his own unique philosophy regarding bombs and their nature and he truly was a genius at the art elevating it to a level that it had never before attained.
That the bombs serve as an analogy to the finality of life? Ticking down to the end of its own existence. Yeah sure that was okay I guess, but his actual ambition was pretty generic. "The be the most famous bomber of them all!"
A really good job was also done with the writing and voice acting to really deliver the character they wished to portray.
The voice acting was okay. It was hammy and slobber-mouthed. A decent choice for the character, but hardly particularly notable.
The character was bizarre, unlikable, disgusting in many ways, and it wasn't particularly important as far as the series is concerned, but it doesn't mean it wasn't a well crafted one, particularly when you also consider the gameplay implications.
Stop repeating yourself.
Having this overweight character in a bomb suit on rollerskates going around and planting bombs made for a really awesome boss battle - it made him durable, fast, and he would hide the bombs in pretty good places, making the job of locating and disposing the bombs while fending off his attacks a really challenging and engaging gameplay segment. Hiding the final bomb under his person - another application of his persona as a fat man - was also a pretty clever move.
Only the final sentence has any relevance towards his character.
I didn't once encounter a single character in Mass Effect that I would consider at all interesting.
Well of course not, because you prefer roller-blading caricatures designed to be living anti-bomb propaganda.
Originally posted by NemeBro
You're changing the point to suit your own idiotic argument, or lack thereof.Piling detail after detail onto characters is easy. Forming a realistically developed character, with ambitions, emotions, and reactions that flow together smoothly is very hard.
You never posted your argument you stupid ass-ramming pedophile. You're a limp-dicked pussy, all bark no bite, making long posts filled with no content.
Listen young lady that is exactly what I way saying. Depth alone requires no skill, which is simply what adding a lot of detail onto a character's personality is.
That isn't ironic.
Yes it is.
Why are you devoting so many posts to highlight that he is "bizarre"? We accept that. Stop padding your posts to make lesser minds believe they have content.
The point was that his image adds style to his madness to the point of extravagance.
Hey this is actually true.
Concession accepted.
That the bombs serve as an analogy to the finality of life? Ticking down to the end of its own existence. Yeah sure that was okay I guess, but his actual ambition was pretty generic. "The be the most famous bomber of them all!"
Now you see it. Also I'd hardly say that ambition was exactly a defining trait, so it can be forgiven for being a little generic. What are the excuses of the Mass Effect villains?
The voice acting was okay. It was hammy and slobber-mouthed. A decent choice for the character, but hardly particularly notable.
As it was supposed to be, as you acknowledge. It wasn't super notable, but again, let me remind you that he wasn't exactly the most notable of characters in the first place. The game simply did a very good job with him, from the voice acting to his own dialogue, to his visual design, gameplay design and other characters' commentary on him.
Stop repeating yourself.
Buddy sometimes the music and poetry of a master wordsmith calls for a little repetition.
Only the final sentence has any relevance towards his character.
I was talking about Fatman as a character, not just his character, and as this is a videogame I would absolutely consider it a relevant part of the character. Not only was Fatman an interesting character, but the same traits that added to his personality also had excellent use in a gamepley context.
Well of course not, because you prefer roller-blading caricatures designed to be living anti-bomb propaganda.
As I said, I picked Fatman for the reason that he wasn't a stand out character in the Metal Gear franchise. That he still could be considered a more interesting character than anybody from Mass Effect speaks volumes to the disparity of the two series in their storytelling merits.
Jack is a far more interesting, layered and well developed character than Fatman, imo. And dare I say, at the very least the equal if not superior of any character in the MGS saga, who are more like abstract themes and archetypes than actual people, tbh.
So is Miranda. And Thane. Garrus too. And Liara (if we include the SB dlc). And those are just your team-mates.
I honestly don't see what makes Fatman so much better, tbh, and I've played MGS 2 several times.
MGS might have a more complicated and layered story to it, but Mass Effect does a hell of a lot more to draw human emotions and reactions from the player, and to make you sympathise (and even empathise) more with the characters throughout.
The characters feel more like actual people, and that is incredibly hard to do in a video game, especially to do it so consistently, which Bioware did.
I'd actually say the complicated plot and well imagined setting in Metal Gear in fact comes second to its drama and characters. Mass Effect never comes close to reaching the emotional highs of the MGS3 ending, some of the more emotional conversations between Jack and Rose, Naomi's revelation, Meryl being used as bait in MGS1, the microwave scene in MGS4, the MGS4 ending, returning to Shadow Moses, the final battle between Liquid Ocelot and Snake etc.
What most people are saying about Metal Gear characters being bizarre and caricatures etc. only really applies to the supporting cast of villains (and that doesn't mean they're not good characters; you'd have to be undeniably crazy to suggest that The End was not a remarkably conceived character). The primary villains and the heroic characters all feel far more human and serious.
The conversations in Metal Gear are also far more interesting and flow far more naturally than those in Mass Effect. It's also worth noting that they have very similar voice acting talents on their games and yet they do so much of a better job at utilizing them in Metal Gear than they do in Mass Effect.
Edit - I find this argument kind of ridiculous in all honesty. Metal Gear is basically a study on how to develop interesting characters in videogames. That you actually have characters as brilliant as The End, Fortune, Null, Psycho Mantis basically serve as insignificant supporting characters is pretty remarkable. Mass Effect creates uninteresting characters and then just spends a lot of time developing them. Mass Effect spends more time with those characters, Metal Gear on the other hand makes much better use of that time simply with better storytelling and a better understanding of cinema. It's really not remotely close.