Originally posted by Golgo13
No love for Arion, guys? He'd be in top 5 for sure.
Yeah I'm a fan of Arion too. The thing is as far as knowledge goes there are also many instances of his knowledge of magic ( and all things in general )not being that vast.
For example in the scan you chose, this was from a time that he actually didn't know most of his history. He was unaware of his origin altogether. At that point he didn't even know That Calculhah and Dark Majestra were his parents. He also didn't remember the sacrifice he made to save Earth centuries before and how his father had merged his essence with a star to save his existence.
His knowledge was so wanting that he had completely lost power four of five times during his series. After his fathers death at the hands of his brother he relied very heavily on the guidance of pieces of Calculhah's spirit in crystals that he had used an enchantment to capture his essence in. He also gained knowledge from Calculhah's citadel when he found it in the dark worlds and still had to be "taught" certain facts about the ways of Magic in the dark worlds by a familiar in the issue where he finally faced and defeated his Mother for teh last time.
Arion's magic was far more instinctual than knowledge based and he honestly lucked his way through a LOT of things. In turns of knowledge his evil Brother Garn Dannauth was far more equipped. For one thing all the centuries that Arion spent as a star in the heavens Garn was learning from their mother.
Originally posted by beatboks
Yeah I'm a fan of Arion too. The thing is as far as knowledge goes there are also many instances of his knowledge of magic ( and all things in general )not being that vast.For example in the scan you chose, this was from a time that he actually didn't know most of his history. He was unaware of his origin altogether. At that point he didn't even know That Calculhah and Dark Majestra were his parents. He also didn't remember the sacrifice he made to save Earth centuries before and how his father had merged his essence with a star to save his existence.
His knowledge was so wanting that he had completely lost power four of five times during his series. After his fathers death at the hands of his brother he relied very heavily on the guidance of pieces of Calculhah's spirit in crystals that he had used an enchantment to capture his essence in. He also gained knowledge from Calculhah's citadel when he found it in the dark worlds and still had to be "taught" certain facts about the ways of Magic in the dark worlds by a familiar in the issue where he finally faced and defeated his Mother for teh last time.
Arion's magic was far more instinctual than knowledge based and he honestly lucked his way through a LOT of things. In turns of knowledge his evil Brother Garn Dannauth was far more equipped. For one thing all the centuries that Arion spent as a star in the heavens Garn was learning from their mother.
I just chose that pic, because I like the art. Who is on your list, BTW?
Originally posted by JakeTheBanki'd actually agree with this as a contender and not just because its doom. His knowledge is actually broader than Dr. Strange and most mortal mystics though he lacks the raw power of Dr. Strange. Hell Strange has consulted with him on mystic matters on occasion. That said is this discussion including non-mortals or what.
Doom.
Non-mortals between the vishanti/deity figures in Marvel.
DC I'd say Merlin or Mordru as lord of the Sorcerer's world. Maybe Shazam/Nabu.
In terms of mortals I'd give Doom the nod in terms of raw knowledge at his disposal for Marvel
John Constantine has a lot of knowledge but is less than enthusiastic about practicing most of what he knows but as per stips i'll give it to him or someone from trenchcoat brigade barring phantom stranger
Originally posted by Uriel005
i'd actually agree with this as a contender and not just because its doom. His knowledge is actually broader than Dr. Strange and most mortal mystics though he lacks the raw power of Dr. Strange. Hell Strange has consulted with him on mystic matters on occasion. That said is this discussion including non-mortals or what.Non-mortals between the vishanti/deity figures in Marvel.
DC I'd say Merlin or Mordru as lord of the Sorcerer's world. Maybe Shazam/Nabu.
In terms of mortals I'd give Doom the nod in terms of raw knowledge at his disposal for Marvel
John Constantine has a lot of knowledge but is less than enthusiastic about practicing most of what he knows but as per stips i'll give it to him or someone from trenchcoat brigade barring phantom stranger
👆
Ever since Mark Waid's run on F4, Doom's sorcery has been steadily and steadily been touched upon and his feats have shown repeated increase both in knowledge and power. Comparing him now to the "mid tier mage" Strange described him as years ago is a complete injustice to the character as well as ignoring all of his development. I mean, how many comparisons to we have to see made between Doom and Strange to get to the very clear message that currently, Doom is at least as well learned as Strange is in the mystic arts?
Originally posted by Golgo13
Strange has had entire runs to show feats of all kinds of magic, whether that is black magic, white, etc... He's even created his own type of magic as well. What type of magic has Doom displayed? And is it as much as Strange?
Doom's displayed dark magic, has effortlessly infused technology with sorcery (which is a magic feat in of itself as the two schools of thought seem to be in opposition with one another). He's also used chronal magic, summoning magic, and has - on multiple occasions now - had his knowledge directly compared to Strange's own. And then there's what he did in Children's Crusade.
Originally posted by Golgo13you have to understand that a lot of Doom's mystic know-how comes from his pursuit of his mother. The guy was prepping to toe-to-toe with anyone he might encounter in hell and ultimately Mephisto. IMO Doom mostly defers to tech answers because its ultimately more reliable and harder to on the spot counter rather than run the risk of encountering another mage who can pick apart his spells on the spot. Like I said he's not the most powerful mage around just more knowledgeable than most in many fields. Plus he has willpower out the wazoo which is half of magic.
Strange has had entire runs to show feats of all kinds of magic, whether that is black magic, white, etc... He's even created his own type of magic as well. What type of magic has Doom displayed? And is it as much as Strange?
On Strange. Strange has limited himself for years since his issues with black magic and sticks to white magic save for the most dire of circumstances. That is not to say he isn't knowledgeable in other areas but it falls out of his perceived purview. For instance brother vodoo is much more knowledgeable about vodoo and other shamanistic arts than Strange or Baron Mordo with black magic.
