Nano-technology, what are the full implications? Why AI would need our brains.

If a software program does question its purpose, at that point we must treat it as something superior to us, that has the ability to do anything it wants to us.

All the more reason for changing our substrates, as a nano-cellular, silicon-based organism, you will be equal to the machines - no longer at their mercy. At that point, I don't see any reason for any conscious mind to identify itself as separate from all others; I don't see any more suffering. The point of anxiety is to survive under the circumstances mammals and reptilians go through on earth, at the mercy of their environment. Removed from that condition and from the mercy of the environment, the neurotransmitters responsible for unpleasant experiences will be removed.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Ok, JIA, I mean Oneness.

Am I failing at that?

If you have any opinion on the matter, whether Buddhism nullifies all of this or not, go ahead and let lose.

Personally I don't find JIA to be a bad member. When you make a thread you should be able to make more than one post about it. See any respect thread on this website, the first whole page is made of a posts by one member.

Originally posted by Oneness
... I'm trying my best to address issues pertaining to my beliefs, and to explain that the urls and to make it clear that my opinions are subjective.

Am I failing at that?

Two things:

1. I feel if you can't say it, don't post it.
2. Youtube is blocked for me.

😛

You got me, I am trying to share this knowledge so that people will be like, "I want to be a transhuman" relative to JIA seeing it and hoping others will be like, "I want to be a Christian." Neither me nor JIA can force a belief by throwing links and words into a thread that no one is forced to read.

What do you think about removing ourselves from our humanity? More specifically, about doing away with anxiety and the ability to feel the fight or flight mechanism as its no longer relevant to a transhuman?

If it were possible, would you do that?

Originally posted by Oneness
1. I disagree, other people know things I don't, so I should share what they say because it is pertinent to my topic.
2. That is alright, I don't expect to read or respond to my posts even. Just putting this out there hoping someone will see it and maybe it will affect them. Kind of like JIA, who again I don't see a problem with.

What do you think about removing ourselves from our humanity? More specifically, about doing away with anxiety and the ability to feel the fight or flight mechanism as its no longer relevant to a transhuman?

If it were possible, would you do that?

1. This is a debate forum and it is impossible to debate a youtube video.

2. That is fine, but the ratio should be more debate then video.

To answer you question: I think that would take away the reason to be human.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
To answer you question: I think that would take away the reason to be human.

Just because you perceive things in a different way (without the root of evil, stress), doesn't mean your emotions are lessened, they are just limited to the positive. Because, the negative of emotion is not a choice, it is the result of our biochemistry, and you want to keep it when you have other options?

Or do you believe that this will somehow bring harm, or that it is impossible because there is no yang without yin? Do you think that philosophy is a bit pessimistic?

Originally posted by Oneness
But does it take away the reason to live?

Just because you perceive things in a different way (without the root of evil, stress), doesn't mean your emotions are lessened, they are just limited to the positive. Because, the negative of emotion is not a choice, it is the result of our biochemistry, and you want to keep it when you have other options?

Good and evil are connected. You cannot have one without the other.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Good and evil are connected. You cannot have one without the other.

Personally I'm not going to form an opinion or a fact either way. I will only hope that technology may one day change me, short of death, to experience good and not evil as a living, free-willed thing that has more of the strengths of the human minds, and none of the weaknesses.

Originally posted by Oneness
That is a philosophy founded by a more primitive society. Do you know for a fact that, in the future, the fact of this philosophy will never be debunked?

Primitive?

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Primitive?

Technology is the product of the human mind, it represents one of the strengths of the human - in that we can change the environment to work for our benefit, to make both our "nature" and our lives, better and more sophisticated/civilized.

Wouldn't you agree?

Originally posted by Oneness
Limited, technologically speaking.

Technology is the product of the human mind, it represents one of the strengths of the human - in that we can change the environment to work for our benefit, to make both our "nature" and our lives, better and more sophisticated/civilized.

Wouldn't you agree?

No. It is yet to be seen if Frankenstein survives his monster.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
No. It is yet to be seen if Frankenstein survives his monster.

I at least hope in the power of technology to destroy our weaknesses totally, because I believe that evil is the product of the flaws in human-nature, and that, "God willing", these flaws may one day be abolished as we use technology to change our nature.

I hope you're wrong, in that humans cannot escape evil without sacrificing all that humans are, just some of what humans are (primitive).

Do you find that a misplaced hope?

Originally posted by Oneness
I don't think Frankenstein is a fair example.

I at least hope in the power of technology to destroy our weaknesses totally, because I believe that evil is the product of the flaws in human-nature, and that, "God willing", these flaws may one day be abolished as we use technology to change our nature.

I hope you're wrong, in that humans cannot escape evil without sacrificing all that humans are, just some of what humans are (primitive).

Do you find that a misplaced hope?

There is nothing wrong with us (the human race). We don’t need what you are looking for.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
There is nothing wrong with us, we don't need shit!

I can't people, smh. You think your life is guided by something that is above natural selection? ET doesn't care about humanity, it's got bigger concerns than bugs. The law of karma is a fill in the gaps set of high and mighty philosophies that condemn great things of science, and fill in the gaps of what we don't understand with ignorant perceptions that are affected by the changing, the human changes the environment, learns more about the environment, about the cosmos, about the elements and about physics - and God and karma aren't as spooky.

Tell me, do you think Buddha or whatever wanted his Buddhists to immolate themselves to protest oppression?

It's comical, the idea that an intelligent force that far ahead would create the animal kingdom to produce people, yada yada, so that when we overcame the environment and scarcity we could still suffer from our biochemical evolution and needlessly become violent and pursue sex and procreation long after it's relevant. So that we could shit and build toilets. So that all this happens, because that's what something want. Um hum. Bullshit.

We shit because of chaotic evolution. When I say transhuman I'm not talking about star trek, Terminator, I Robot, I'm talking the real thing, I'm talking tranhumans, you wouldn't understand if I wrote it out for you.

Makes so much sense, we were put here for a reason and we should stay just the way we are, even though technology is affecting us, we should just find a middle ground and prevent total evolution. Yep, PERFECT SHAKYA, I totally don't agree with your philosophy.

Just because evolution creates humans who can create evil, and smart decisions can sometimes get us out of bad situations so in a sense sometimes actions can create good too, doesn't mean that karma HAS to be here or that karma has to be a balance of good and evil, for a society of Doctor Manhattans (transhumans) good and evil aren't even really relevant, there are still emotions, elation, elevated sense of clarity etc. We've just escaped the same ole bullshit.

Stress, rage, lust, fear, blood, having organs and shit, child labor, getting old, growing up in the hood, growing up in foster care. Doesn't have to be apart of your experience if man-made technology can change you as it has changed so much of the environment already.
You don't have to go through all that. That's just your biochemistry. We change the environment, nature isn't what Buddhist think, it is beyond human comprehension, and Shakyamunison professes to know its secrets by saying that because we are its product, we should fall victim to the environment even if we can do something about it.

Go back 2,000 years and ask a Spartan warrior what he thinks of putting a man on the moon. He won't understand what the moon is, his perception of it is a painting in the clouds. Go back a few hundred centuries and ask the Ming Dynasty, whoever invented gun powder, if they think it would be possible for man to create and explosive capable of demolishing an entire city, reducing it to ash in minutes. One atom bomb. They will say no because they don't know about fission, just gun powder, that's how they perceive the bomb. Shakyamunison's (and even my own) understanding of karma and transhumanism are the same way. We don't know shit about shit. Difference is I hope it's not what Shakya says it is! Moreover, I am open to the possibility that it isn't, even if it goes against current Bhuddist doctrines pertaining to humanity's incomplete and temporary perception of life and death.

I don't like arguing with Americans like Shakyamunison on this forum, being an American myself I know our culture, and I'd much rather have a discussion with somebody from France of Italy than someone from America.

A human like myself is an environment of bacteria and cells, which are also products of the environment. A piece of man-made technology, like the computer you're reading this from, is an environment of silicon circuitry and electric signals. Karma is an environment of actions and their consequences, also apart of a larger environment, like technology or myself. All of this can be manipulated or destroyed. I profess to have knowledge of those facts, as Shakyamunison professes to have knowledge of karma that fuels his anti-transhumanism, but it is not a total knowledge in either cases.

Technology has changed so much of the environment already, it can change someone like myself in ways all the meditation and life-choices in the world cannot - effectively resetting what is typically understood as the role of karma. Maybe a transhuman doesn't suffer from karma, similarly to how Vishnu is free from it in the Bhagavad Ghita. The technology we may build in the future may re-engineer other micro-environments like myself, the aging process, the life cycle (infancy to late adulthood), and karma. I do not profess to have total knowledge of all the things that these facts bare-out.

Originally posted by Oneness
There's a lot wrong with us. We don't have to do anything, but if we can make something about us better, that's shit and drama and useless turmoil we don't have to deal with. If our bodies don't age, if we're able to colonize other worlds and write symphonies of world-changing scientific equations, if we can be above natural selection, there's no more violence? Don't you understand that?

The phrase "Pipe Dream" comes to mind. Humans will always be human, unless we are no longer human, but then we are not talking about humans any longer.

Originally posted by Oneness
There's no matter awkward conversations even, there's no more dorks, there's nothing but grandeur every day! You're afraid of something because you don't understand it.

Here is the problem. How do you KNOW I am afraid? You don't! Why would I want someone like you (human) deciding what future humans will be like. You don't even know what are like now.

Originally posted by Oneness
I can't people, smh. You think your life is guided by something that is above natural selection? ET doesn't care about humanity, it's got bigger concerns than bugs. The law of karma is a fill in the gaps set of high and mighty philosophies that condemn great things of science, and fill in the gaps of what we don't understand with ignorant perceptions that are affected by the changing, the human changes the environment, learns more about the environment, about the cosmos, about the elements and about physics - and God and karma aren't as spooky.

I have no idea what you are talking about. It could be because you don't know what you are talking about.

What is the "law of karma"? This is something I have never heard of before.

Also, I have no idea what you mean by " and God and karma aren't as spooky."

Humans have changed the environment. I'm sure you've of global warming?

So far, humans have excelled at screwing up the planet. I'm sure we will do the same to ourselves.

Originally posted by Oneness
Tell me, do you think Buddha or whatever wanted his Buddhists to immolate themselves to protest oppression?

I have no idea. I don't even understand the question.

Originally posted by Oneness
It's comical, the idea that an intelligent force that far ahead would create the animal kingdom to produce people, yada yada,

I don't believe in a creation.

Originally posted by Oneness
so that when we overcame the environment and scarcity we could still suffer from our biochemical evolution and needlessly become violent and pursue sex and procreation long after it's relevant. So that we could shit and build toilets. So that all this happens, because that's what something want. Um hum. Bullshit.

Again, I have no idea what you are talking about.

Originally posted by Oneness
We shit because of chaotic evolution.

No, I shit because I eat. At some time in the past our ancestors who were flat worms at the time, would eat and defecate out of the same orifice. It was far more efficient to have a mouth and an anis because you could then eat and shit at the same time.

Originally posted by Oneness
When I say transhuman I'm not talking about star trek, Terminator, I Robot, I'm talking the real thing, I'm talking tranhumans, you wouldn't understand if I wrote it out fora you.

Maybe you should try, because even when you don't write it out for me, I'm not getting it. It could be because you are smarter then me, but that is not apparent.

Originally posted by Oneness
Makes so much sense, we were put here for a reason and we should stay just the way we are, even though technology is affecting us, we should just find a middle ground and prevent total evolution. Yep, PERFECT SHAKYA, I totally [b]don't agree with your philosophy. [/B]

We never stay the same. We always change. And you don't know my philosophy, so how can you disagree with something you don't know?

Originally posted by Oneness
Just because evolution creates humans who can create evil, and smart decisions can sometimes get us out of bad situations so in a sense sometimes actions can create good too, doesn't mean that karma HAS to be here or that karma has to be a balance of good and evil, for a society of Doctor Manhattans (transhumans) good and evil aren't even really relevant, there are still emotions, elation, elevated sense of clarity etc. We've just escaped the same ole bullshit.

So, you think that Karma somehow balances good and evil? You must be a Christian.

Artificially limiting emotions to positive only may seem like the means to establishing a utopian society, however I don't believe a shortcut to Nirvana will result in Nirvana in its true form.

How about empathy as an example. How are you to empathize with another being if you have not felt what they feel? Given your argument here is hat we wouldn't NEED empathy if we are always in a positive state of being... then how are we to know what a positive state of being really is?

My understanding of a positive state of being (Nirvana, enlightenment, self realization) doesn't come from an induced state of perpetual bliss. To me it is a deep understanding of the importance of both the negative and the positive in the ebb and flow of the universe. There is no negative without positive. There is no love without hate. To me life is a journey of experience, and experience without emotion (again, good OR bad), is a dull... and in a seance would make me/you/us nothing more than a drone. Operating in a pre-programmed/designed/build fashion... making me nothing more than an artificial intelligence.

Having said that...

I'm not at all opposed to, nor skeptical of the idea that augmentation (in any form) can, and should eventually be used to improve the quality of human life. Augmented limbs and organs, whatever. I'm all for it. But don't meddle in the essence of the human experience, which is one that is essentially emotional in nature.

Feel fear, so that you know what it takes to be fearless.
Feel hate, so that you know how incredible it is to love.
Feel apathy, so what you know what it is to be inspired.

To be inspired to build, create, and better our inner self, through a deeper understanding, and mastering of our emotions.

I love the idea that that we may discover a way to become "limitless", but I don't want to be limitless if I can not enjoy all that comes with it... including possible negative emotions (whatever they may be). 🙂

Originally posted by Oneness
Stress, rage, lust, fear, blood, having organs and shit, child labor, getting old, growing up in the hood, growing up in foster care. Doesn't have to be apart of your experience if man-made technology can change you as it has changed so much of the environment already.
You don't have to go through all that. That's just your biochemistry. We change the environment, nature isn't what Buddhist think, it is beyond human comprehension, and Shakyamunison professes to know its secrets by saying that because we are its product, we should fall victim to the environment even if we can do something about it.

So, all you have done is convince me that you know nothing about Buddhism. You are making clams that are asinine.

Originally posted by Oneness
Go back 2,000 years and ask a Spartan warrior what he thinks of putting a man on the moon. He won't understand what the moon is, his perception of it is a painting in the clouds. Go back a few hundred centuries and ask the Ming Dynasty, whoever invented gun powder, if they think it would be possible for man to create and explosive capable of demolishing an entire city, reducing it to ash in minutes. One atom bomb. They will say no because they don't know about fission, just gun powder, that's how they perceive the bomb. Shakyamunison's (and even my own) understanding of karma and transhumanism are the same way. We don't know shit about shit. Difference is I hope it's not what Shakya says it is! Moreover, I am open to the possibility that it isn't, even if it goes against current Bhuddist doctrines pertaining to humanity's incomplete and temporary perception of life and death.

Please stop talking about Buddhism. You don't know anything about it, and it's not really relevant.

Originally posted by Oneness
I don't like arguing with Americans like Shakyamunison on this forum, being an American myself I know our culture, and I'd much rather have a discussion with somebody from France of Italy than someone from America.

I have no idea why you are even posting here.